Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shmessy, Oct 5, 2012.
Well, in the case of the Pats' secondary, it would appear they're better off not listening to Boyer.
Wow, 6 posts in and they've all including moaning or having a pop at McCourty
Zero ability to turn for the ball? Go watch the Bills game and his rookie season and go read what Belichick said, sometimes the team wants the corner to look at the receiver and not back for the ball.
So you're ok with him not turning his head and getting PI's just because you think "Ernie" has reams of data? I also don't understand why you feel that not turning his head means he is erring on the side of caution?
I've stated before that McCourty is many times in position to make a play especially on an underthrown ball which means that it isn't a missed assignment or a blown coverage. If he's half a step or a step behind the receiver and the QB throws a perfect ball, there's no defense that can prevent that. Those other guys get paid too.
But on a ball that isn't perfect, turning your head will give you an opportunity for a takeaway and at the very very least will at minimum make the ref think twice about throwing the flag if he thinks you're trying to make a play on the ball.
Except Boyer is just an extension of Belichick and when they don't listen to him they're gone.
You should have listened to Faulk's speech this AM when he spoke about how players think they know it all and then you land with a coach like BB and with Ernie and learn just how little you know about the game. Times that by 10 for the fanbase.
In defense of your infamous Cassel over Brady debate thread you kept repeating it wasn't what we as fans wanted it was incombant on us to consider what Bill must be thinking. Well... We know what he thinks about this subject and you now seem intent on ignoring that.
You're also assuming that McCourty isn't being coached to turn his head around at some point. McCourty is obviously not doing something right when he is getting called for penalties. Unless you believe that getting flagged is part of the technique being taught.
No, I'm OK with him doing what his coaches are coaching him to do. And in trail technique they are coaching him to play the receiver and assume the ball is perfectly thrown and not underthrown. I assume some of that coaching is situational and relates to film work and the QB. They weren't expecting perfectly thrown balls in some cases. Sunday with Manning they were expecting perfection (or at least well thrown) more often than not.
Since when does post count means anything? It means jack…. My ‘newbie’ status on this board has zero correlation with my familiarity with the Pats. For all you know, I’ve been a fan longer than you have been alive….
Bills game? Whoo-hoo! Must have been my lucky day… great, the guy had a ‘lights out’ game. Kudos to him. How about you go back and watch this past weekend's game against the Broncos? That moron drew yet another PI call right in the end zone, bring the Broncos to the 1 yard line!
Look, I'm not not going to take it away from him (his good plays). But on the long run he has caused this team more damage than anything. I already read what BB had to say about it, thank you very much. BB would never badmouth the skills (or lack thereof) of any of his players in public – you should know that. Any criticism (especially in this organization) is done behind closed doors. For all you know he’s ripping Mccourty a new one as we speak.
Look, I don’t care for a one-game (or even one season performance). I let the statistics do the talking here. The bottom line is that if you average his career performance, he comes out to be a crappy corner. And that’s not just me saying that (with my all 6 posts). Half the fan base (maybe even more) think the guy stinks. He has a ‘haters’ thread dedicated to him for crying out loud. Obviously others have noticed. The guy is a pure liability. Any third string QB looks like Joe Montana when he throws into his coverage.
The guys pure sucks, point blank!
A couple of those calls have been questionable. The obvious ones are the price you pay. Really, the alternative is often the completion and more. AWTE explains the when and why. Sometimes he does get his head around, as he did in Buffalo. It's like everything else with Belichick, situational.
Yeesh. Your post is a bit of a mess--let's unpack it a bit.
--On Boyer being "an extension of Belichick." The point wasn't that the players should be insubordinate and ignore Boyer, just that the level of their play would likely improve if they did.
--On Faulk's comment, it unquestionably true that Belichick knows much more than any of us.
--Referencing the other thread (should have posted that there, but OK), I don't think the primary point was that "it wasn't what we as fans wanted." Rather, it was an attempt to explain to the hysterics that Belichick always analyzes every aspect of the team.
--Last, disagree that we "know what he thinks" on this subject. No, we don't.
yes. his technique playing the receivers hands and not the ball may need
correction. Also, it may be a very difficult technique with some receivers and some well thrown passes just can't be defended. After looking at film BB and staff may help him get better at this.
Remember even the great CBs get beat once in awhile.
So what about his in depth discussion about technique? The players are coached to not turn and look for the ball, so is it McCourty's fault he's being coached in such a way?
The team needs a new DB coach and a change in philosophy that allows the corners to actually turn and look for the ball because what they're doing now clearly doesn't work, when they do actually turn around good things happen - McCourty's rookie season, Butler's rookie season (see a trend?), Dennard against the Broncos.
Seems you're on a crusade against McCourty too, what's your opinion on Kyle Arrington's play this year? Or Sterling Moore?
One of Bill's favorite adages is stats are for losers. If what you thought was remotely true McCourty not only wouldn't be a team captain, he'd be benched or playing in a limited, reserve role. After all this is a meritocracy and you earn snaps by doing your job AS COACHED.
FWIW, the whole secondary sucks. If our secondary played on the same level as our front seven, we would be sitting at number 1 team in the league right now.
But for one reason or another, I see Mccourty sticking out there. Sure, I’ve seen the other corners do the same thing. But he has done it far more. Now, if you’re telling me that that’s the way they’re coached… then I’ll be damned, we definitely need a new CB/secondary coaching staff. Replace/improve this department, and this team is a Superbowl lock!
Maybe that's true (stats are garbage), but I call a PI when I see one. I'm sure there is a good reason for keeping him around (let alone making him a captain). but what that reason is, is beyond me (and many others).
So, what does McCourty really need to be...clairvoyant I guess. He's also coached on what assumptions to make and that is likely adjusted in game based on the kind of day a specific QB is otherwise having. Ernie's contribution to the effort is rooted in probabilities. It's something Steve Belichick also dabbled in while at Annapolis.
Pretty much every defensive back we have drafted since Eugene Wilson has progressively gotten worse with each passing season. I can't think of a single player who actually developed in that time frame. Either Belichick has no idea how to evaluate talent on that position, or the coaching staff has failed in making these guys reach their potential. Really, there's no other option here.
I'm going to assume the proper technique is the one McCourty showed against Buffalo where he was able to turn around and play the ball. Same with Dennard against the Broncos.
Ty Law pointed out that McCourty's problem is that he is always playing "catchup" instead of being "hip to hip" with his receivers.
Whatever the case may be, something is wrong with McCourty's technique. And it's fair for people to call this out.
Clairvoyant? He just needs to turn his head - you don't need to have ESP to do that.
The other thing i don't get is that a couple posts ago you mentioned that BB thinks stats are for losers yet you keep mentioning "Ernie" and his reams of data rooted in probabilities. I don't get what position you actually hold with regard to this.
I'm not claiming to have any talent. I just watch about 4 NFL games per week, and have for 20+ years. I know a bad play by a DB when I see it, and I see a lot of them from McCourty. That's all I'm saying.
Patriots won a superbowl with Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Assante Samuel (who got better the longer he played for the patriots)
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