Meriweather to be cut or traded speculation (merged many times)

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Trade or cut? Brandon Meriweather is one of those freakish athletes from the "U" that is a natural playmaker. Sure a flaw or two, who doesn't but overall he is a top Safety in the league. Just ask alot of his counterparts. The reason the Sharper and Hill being brought in to work out his for DEPTH

 

[supafly]

There is no guarantee of any compensation if Meriweather leaves as a free agent, let alone a third rounder. And that pick if awarded, wouldn't be until the 2013 draft.

National Football League Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round."

As usual, Wikipedia is a lousy place for real information...

These are direct quotes via the official NFL website:

1. "Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council."

2. "Under the rules for compensatory draft selections, a team losing more or better compensatory free agents"

3. "Three clubs this year (Oakland, Seattle and New Orleans) will each receive a compensatory pick even though they did not suffer a net loss of compensatory free agents last year. Under the formula, the compensatory free agents lost by these clubs were ranked higher than the ones they signed (by a specified point differential based upon salary and performance)."


If you're telling me that we won't receive at least a 4th for Meriweather, you're kidding yourself. Here is a list of our FA's for next yr:

Deion Branch, WR
Landon Cohen, DE
Dan Connolly, C
Kevin Faulk, RB
Gary Guyton, LB
Matt Katula, LS
Dan Koppen, C
Mark Levoir, OT
Brandon Meriweather, S
Eric Moore, DE
Sammy Morris, RB
Rob Ninkovich, LB
James Sanders, S
Matt Slater, WR
Wes Welker, WR
Tracy White, LB
Jonathan Wilhite, CB
Sergio Brown, S
Brian Hoyer, QB
Bret Lockett, S
Kyle Love, DE
Darryl Richard, DT
Ryan Wendell, C

I don't see what the big debate really is about? It seems fairly obvious to me that we are going to lose either MORE free agents, or MORE value. Either way, we will be awarded a comp pick for Meriweather. Based on his "post-season honors" (per NFL.com), and "playing time" (per NFL.com), I see absolutely no debate to this issue, and to be honest--you are the only one who is even questioned it. My point and argument remain the same...the 2 options are to trade Meriweather for somewhere in the ballpark of a 3rd/4th, or keep him one last yr (which would give us more time to allow Dowling to learn the position, and possibly allow the team to prepare in April's draft and free agency) on a cheap rookie pact---which would then give us a comp pick that the NFL would almost be guaranteed (based on their definition of "post-season honors" and "playing time") to award the NEP somewhere around a 3rd/4th. It sounds like option #2 is almost a no-brainer, especially when you consider our current safety situation, recent losses of Page/McGowan, and overall depth.

 

[supafly]

Re: Meriwether to be cut or traded speculation (merged many times)

Well I hope so. He has what, twice as many games as any other player back there other than Sanders?

That's a fair enough point, but not really his fault either. It shouldn't be used against him that there haven't been many hits in the BB secondary draft picks. The fact is---that in the 4 yrs here he has provided many turnovers and big plays. That equates to leading the secondary in turnovers. It's a fact, and it's something that has been brought up many times, by numerous different posters and news outlets. This isn't my own personal research that you are debating.

THESE ARE FACTS:

1. He has played in every single regular season game since being drafted. Appearences in all 16 games x 4 yrs...while we all know about his benching last yr for a game, he has shown injury-free stability at the position.

2. He has either led the defense in snap counts or has been one of the top leaders since he came here

3. He has individually contributed to 17 (seventeen!!) turnovers in his 3 yrs since making zero starts his rookie yr. That has NOTHING at all to do with lack of competition. Those would be team leading numbers on a majority of NFL teams. I'd like to see some of the 'bigger' names in comparison at the position.

2010 INT--3 +6 passes defended
2009 INT--5 +2 forced fumbles + 1 touchdown return + 9 passes defended
2008 INT--4 +2 forced fumbles + 9 passes defended
2007 (never started/rookie yr) 1 forced fumble +3 passes defended

Many posters talk of his good play in the BAL game last yr. What about setting the tone in the Indy game with a first drive pick that was run back 30 yards? That immediately led to the first TD, and set the tone for the game. Where I was downright stunned was watching last yr's youtube Patriot highlights for 2010. I don't have the direct link unfortunately, but there were numerous instances where Meriweather was right there in a ton of plays. That pleasantly surprised me, and I realized that I probably was undervaluing him on many levels.

Personally, I don't like him that much, and I certainly don't care for his freelancing and bad angles. But you cannot even begin to argue that he is immensely talented, and has valuable youth and speed.

If he's so terrible, than why do so many mediots such as NFLN and ESPN currently rank him in the top 5-6 NFL safeties? It may have something to do with him playing in every single game since his drafting, leading the defense to a ton of turnovers (basically all in 3 starting yrs), and his 2 pro bowl selections...which were more deserved than NOT deserved. Just look at the numbers. The first one was certainly deserved, while last yr's may have been based more on reputation alone, which is up for debate.

 

[supafly]

You claimed twice that it would be next year. Next year will be 2012.

I apologize. I assumed that since he was leaving in Feb (presumably) in FA, that posters could differentiate between "the next yr."

It was probably poor wording, but the fact of the matter is that we would get the pick during the "next" draft.

"Next yr" in my sense was AFTER he left, not before...which I assumed would be understood by most.

 

[supafly]

Trade or cut? Brandon Meriweather is one of those freakish athletes from the "U" that is a natural playmaker. Sure a flaw or two, who doesn't but overall he is a top Safety in the league. Just ask alot of his counterparts. The reason the Sharper and Hill being brought in to work out his for DEPTH

Considering that we lost both Page (free agency) and McGowan (released, and not yet signed by anyone else) your assessment could be just as right, if not more-- as the pure speculation about Meriweather that is going on.

Those reasons + Sanders is dinged up too. It's possible it could be slightly worse than we think. Who knows? Maybe it's Sanders that is on the trading block? Those rumors were started too about a month back. (I doubt it, but I suppose anything's possible)

The bottom line is that quickly made a position of depth and strength a position that includes:

Chung, ( Extremely talented, but can't cover worth a damn), Brown (limited rookie playing time), and YES....Meriweather as our top 3 safeties and likely 53 man roster candidates.

 

[JMarr]

Can't see him traded or cut at all, unless he were to do something incredibly stupid to piss off BB. Any way you look at it, he is our best Safety.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Sanders start regressing a bit physically this year, and Chung hasn't exactly set the world on fire yet.

 

[supafly]

Can't see him traded or cut at all, unless he were to do something incredibly stupid to piss off BB. Any way you look at it, he is our best Safety.

Wouldn't surprise me to see Sanders start regressing a bit physically this year, and Chung hasn't exactly set the world on fire yet.

No. Chung has not even come close to setting the world on fire, yet somehow around here these whipping boys and favorites seem to be agreed upon by about 95% of the boards.

Chung and Meriweather were both high draft picks, between #24 and #34 of the top players selected. Yet it's more than obvious that Meriweather's first 2 yrs were leagues ahead of Chung's. And for whatever reason on this forum, Chung is a God who has "potential," while Meriweather is "undeserved" and "we'd be lucky to receive anything/whatever we possibly could for him."

Just doesn't make much sense. Chung hasn't proved that he can cover my grandma, yet he hits hard, is a hard worker, and is very young and talented. But way too many people here somehow assume that Chung is strangely better than Meriweather??? It's crazy...

And again--I really like Chung, a lot more than I like Meriweather. But I am fair and unbiased, and stating what should be more than obvious.

 

[sbpatfan]

No. Chung has not even come close to setting the world on fire, yet somehow around here these whipping boys and favorites seem to be agreed upon by about 95% of the boards.

Chung and Meriweather were both high draft picks, between #24 and #34 of the top players selected. Yet it's more than obvious that Meriweather's first 2 yrs were leagues ahead of Chung's. And for whatever reason on this forum, Chung is a God who has "potential," while Meriweather is "undeserved" and "we'd be lucky to receive anything/whatever we possibly could for him."

Just doesn't make much sense. Chung hasn't proved that he can cover my grandma, yet he hits hard, is a hard worker, and is very young and talented. But way too many people here somehow assume that Chung is strangely better than Meriweather??? It's crazy...

And again--I really like Chung, a lot more than I like Meriweather. But I am fair and unbiased, and stating what should be more than obvious.

I think people like Chung better because he's not as black as Meriweather.

 

[supafly]

Re: Meriwether to be cut or traded speculation (merged many times)

Well I hope so. He has what, twice as many games as any other player back there other than Sanders?

For what it's worth to you:

Brandon Meriweather has attributed to 17 turnovers since becoming a starter in 2008.

Defensive POY Troy Palamalu has attributed to 18 turnovers during the exact same time span.

This my friend, is an ultimate fail on your part....It has absolutely nothing at all to do with James Sanders, lack of other competition, or whatever it is you're talking about.

Meriweather's turnovers match up neck and neck with the player that just won the defensive player of the yr, since Meriweather began starting in 2008 after his rookie yr. As we know, many consider Polamalu THE best safety in the entire NFL.

Troy Polamalu NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

(I'm not saying that they should rightfully be compared, but as far as turnovers go---his are just as important as any other players turnovers--regardless of your opinion about who else we have in our secondary)

 

[supafly]

I think people like Chung better because he's not as black as Meriweather.

Yes, I agree. A lot of it is b/c Chung is perceived as being a harder worker, and that Meri is a slacker, a freelancer, a bad angle taking tackler etc.

All of those may be true...but no matter what, you can't dispute Meri's importance to our current situation. Nor can you dispute his obvious playmaking ability, speed, and immense talent.

I will agree that he does do some wrong things, terribly wrong things. But he does a lot of 'right' things too--and that is somehow overlooked.

My favorite post out of this whole thread was the one that asked me :

"If Meriweather was on the Broncos, would you give up a 4th or even a 7th for him??? No. Me either."----

Didn't someone just give us a 4th for Maroney last yr? And he didn't have 1/10th of the playmaking skills, pro-bowl honors, or NFL reputation that Meriweather has. It's more than obvious that we'd get somewhere around a 3rd rounder. But I seriously hope that we keep him. Everyone (including me, b/c I don't really like him either) can put up with him for one last yr. And yes, we will almost be guaranteed a 90% or higher chance that he will net us at least a 4th in a comp pick when he leaves for FA.

If BB thinks he's what's best for the team, he'll keep him, if not--we'll get at least a mid-rd pick for his talents and contributions. Bad angled tackling and freelancing be damned...

 

[NEP4Life]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

 

[sbpatfan]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

Let's talk about Chinese people! With their kung-fu and their silly ching-chang-chong talk! We can't understand you! Go back to yer country! White power!

 

[patsinthesnow]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

When we ALREADY will receive a 3rd/4th for him next yr via comp pick--what benefit does it make to get rid of him this yr? Keeping him provides an immense value, especially when we'll get the SAME compensation for him next yr via comp pick.

I apologize. I assumed that since he was leaving in Feb (presumably) in FA, that posters could differentiate between "the next yr."

It was probably poor wording, but the fact of the matter is that we would get the pick during the "next" draft.

"Next yr" in my sense was AFTER he left, not before...which I assumed would be understood by most.

When you say this year and next year in the same sentence, I don't think most would understand that the next year would be 2 years from now.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

Look up "projection" in psychology

 

[WhiZa]

Re: Reiss reports that Patriots are moving players around at safety during practice

BB gave 1st round pick Maroney the axe after 4 seasons. I can see Meriweather being the next Maroney. His play is average and then theres the off field issues. The shooting investigation is stalled out because nobody will talk all of a sudden.

For BMW to still not be in the right position after all this time is sad. Mayo shoudnt have to baby sit this fool.

The difference is Meriweather made the probowl the past 2 years. He is still contributing to this team at some level even is he's regressed. Maroney just had a good couple of games.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

Is this what passes today for critical thinking? You have nothing of intelligence to say so you scream racism. What a painfully simplistic way to debate a subject.

The reasons people don't think Meriweather is a good player is because he is often out of position and does a piss poor job of tackling and his job is to be in the right position and make tackles.

 

[mcsully]

You know, I've watched this thread for a while, and the only conclusion I can reach is that the anti-Meriweather sentiment is racial and cultural in nature.

It was the same with Maroney.

There's a certain contingent on this board that accepts black players as long as they "act white." Short hair, doing what massah Bill says, and working the NFL fields are all signs that a black player is "acting white."

But when a player has dreads, or he otherwise tries to be an individual, he's off the plantation. He's "acting black." The usual suspects on this board don their white hoods, and while maintaining the thinnest veneer of non-racialism, they attack the player mercilessly.

I think some of you anti-Meriweather bigots need to take a look in the mirror at the rot in your soul, and really ask yourself if you like what you see.

And that's real talk.

WOW.. I'm actually at a loss of words..

 

[CrazyDave]

Let's talk about Chinese people! With their kung-fu and their silly ching-chang-chong talk! We can't understand you! Go back to yer country! White power!

OMFG You made me laugh so hard i almost choked on my breakfast burrito.
That said, Merriweather is under rated by many, and Polomalu is vastlr over rated by many. Seriously, he is.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

As usual, Wikipedia is a lousy place for real information...

These are direct quotes via the official NFL website:

1. "Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council."

2. "Under the rules for compensatory draft selections, a team losing more or better compensatory free agents"

3. "Three clubs this year (Oakland, Seattle and New Orleans) will each receive a compensatory pick even though they did not suffer a net loss of compensatory free agents last year. Under the formula, the compensatory free agents lost by these clubs were ranked higher than the ones they signed (by a specified point differential based upon salary and performance)."


If you're telling me that we won't receive at least a 4th for Meriweather, you're kidding yourself. Here is a list of our FA's for next yr:

Deion Branch, WR
Landon Cohen, DE
Dan Connolly, C
Kevin Faulk, RB
Gary Guyton, LB
Matt Katula, LS
Dan Koppen, C
Mark Levoir, OT
Brandon Meriweather, S
Eric Moore, DE
Sammy Morris, RB
Rob Ninkovich, LB
James Sanders, S
Matt Slater, WR
Wes Welker, WR
Tracy White, LB
Jonathan Wilhite, CB
Sergio Brown, S
Brian Hoyer, QB
Bret Lockett, S
Kyle Love, DE
Darryl Richard, DT
Ryan Wendell, C

I don't see what the big debate really is about? It seems fairly obvious to me that we are going to lose either MORE free agents, or MORE value. Either way, we will be awarded a comp pick for Meriweather. Based on his "post-season honors" (per NFL.com), and "playing time" (per NFL.com), I see absolutely no debate to this issue, and to be honest--you are the only one who is even questioned it. My point and argument remain the same...the 2 options are to trade Meriweather for somewhere in the ballpark of a 3rd/4th, or keep him one last yr (which would give us more time to allow Dowling to learn the position, and possibly allow the team to prepare in April's draft and free agency) on a cheap rookie pact---which would then give us a comp pick that the NFL would almost be guaranteed (based on their definition of "post-season honors" and "playing time") to award the NEP somewhere around a 3rd/4th. It sounds like option #2 is almost a no-brainer, especially when you consider our current safety situation, recent losses of Page/McGowan, and overall depth.

Of that list some will be resigned, some will be released (sooner rather than later) some will retire, others are just roster filler.

You're assertion that we are guaranteed a 3rd/4th (comp pick in 2013) for Meriweather is inaccurate. Simply signing Larry Fitzgerald (I can hope) would most likely negate the Pats getting a comp pick.