Meriweather apologizes

[shmessy]

The reality is I am neither "pro" or "anti" Merriweather. It's simply the reality of events. A critque on poor technique and uncontrolled play is fundamentally different than an undeserved indictment of deliberate pathological behavior.

Who claimed that the hit was "deliberate pathological behavior"?

Merriwether didn't exhibit "deliberate pathological behavior" - - he made a malpractice mistake, owned up to it and apologized.

The video fanboys who like to watch things blow up are the only one exhibiting "deliberate pathological behavior".

Like I said before, I bet the age divide on this subject occurs between ages 25-30.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Last I looked, Heap can't just 90 inches into the air. With Heap being so much larger than Meriweather to begin with, there is even less of a reason for Meriweather to need to launch himself at Heap and lead with his helmet. In fact, your mentioning of the heights and such give even more credence for Meriweather to NOT launch himself at high at Heap.

You do realize this makes absolutely zero sense.

Thanks for proving my point

And yes, it does make sense for a 5'11" inch guy to leave his feet to contact a jumping 6'5" guy who also well.... jumped. A review of physics combined with mathematical calculation would show the taller guy who gets taller would require a mechanism of getting "taller" with respect to the shorter guy.

I would refer you to a game called basketball. I review of it's play would show a game with players of varying size and a ball do produce situations where various other players do in fact leave their feet. This is ofter referred to as "jumping"

Furthermore, when homo sapiens do "jump" the tendency is for the top of the organism (the head) to lead. Few are the times when an organism vertically leads with their feet.

 

[DaBruinz]

Egregious, dangerous, suspension worthy hit:

YouTube - Ryan Clark Lits up Wes Welker

Poor technique, bad judgement, possibly illegal but NOT suspension worthy hit:

YouTube - Cheap hit by Meriweather on Heap

It's pretty f'in stupid to provide the video of the hit that, by all accounts, was the straw that broke the camel's back regarding defensive players launching themselves at defenseless receivers. It does nothing to help your case.

The reality is that Meriweather launched himself at Heap, making helmet to helmet contact because Meriweather led with his helmet.

The rule regarding helmet to helmet hits has been on the books at least since 1996. The launching at a defenseless player since 2009. Either way, Meriweather would have been flagged for Unnecessary Roughness and would have received a fine (I'm fairly certain the league fines all unnecessary roughness penalties unless they deem the flag unjustly thrown).

 

[emoney_33]

Brandon's head was down PRIOR to him launching himself. Again, you choose to see only what you want. Also, Heap coming down and forward would have been even more reason for Meriweather to not leave his feet. Simple 3D Geometry tells us that. If Meriweather doesn't leave his feet, Heap get's hit squarely in the chest. No flag for helmet to helmet. No flag for launching at a defenseless receiver.

Again I really don't understand why I am arguing with someone who bends, twists and warps the truth while flat out lying at other times. His head was not down until the last moments before impact. I verify my facts before I post them, you just spout them from "memory".

You are completely wrong on the entire thing, and again it leads me to believe you have not re-watched it. He barely left his feet anyway.

Sorry, but it's not just "help the offense" and your being ignorant to say so. The defense is not losing the ability to knock the ball loose. That is a typical over-exaggeration by someone who is saying anything he can to try and win an argument he's already lost.

Again, it depends on how they suspend but it certainly does prevent the defense from knocking the ball out if they are going to be extra safe with defenseless receivers. If accidental misjudgements warrant suspension then players will be coached to not take that risk. There will be less and less attempts to jar the ball loose and it will become easier to catch balls over the middle. There is no ignorance here.

BTW, All one has to do is look at the hit by Robinson to see a PROPER way to hit a receiver over without leading with your helmet. Robinson should definitely appeal his fine.

Are you talking about this hit?

YouTube - DeSean Jackson vs Dunta Robinson HUGE HIT !





In the first photo, Brandon stops his lateral momentum to begin his new decision to go for the hit...

In the second photo, Brandon begins his "launch", head up arms coming out...

In this third photo, moments before impact and Brandon's head is still NOT down and it looks likely to hit Heap in the chest...

Mere miliseconds later at the point of impact, Brandon lowered his head bracing for impact, while Heap's body not only came down but fell forward putting his head at a position that Brandon never judged it to be...

The result is a very violent whiplash causing collision. Anyone who thinks it was a glancing blow is out of their mind. The crown of Brandon's helmet hits the front of Heap's and snaps his neck violently backwards. Very ugly collision, but not egregious, malicious or with intent from Brandon Meriweather.

 

[shmessy]

And yes, it does make sense for a 5'11" inch guy to leave his feet to contact a jumping 6'5" guy who also well.... jumped. A review of physics combined with mathematical calculation would show the taller guy who gets taller would require a mechanism of getting "taller" with respect to the shorter guy.

So you're under the impression that Heap was standing straight up at that point and that Merriwether did not lead with his head with his face turned straight to the ground?

Incredible.

 

[emoney_33]

It's pretty f'in stupid to provide the video of the hit that, by all accounts, was the straw that broke the camel's back regarding defensive players launching themselves at defenseless receivers. It does nothing to help your case.

What the HELL are you talking about? You are the one comparing Clark and Brandon's hits which are not even remotely similar and Clark's is the one that a player should be suspended for, not Brandon's.

 

[emoney_33]

Who claimed that the hit was "deliberate pathological behavior"?

Merriwether didn't exhibit "deliberate pathological behavior" - - he made a malpractice mistake, owned up to it and apologized.

The video fanboys who like to watch things blow up are the only one exhibiting "deliberate pathological behavior".

Like I said before, I bet the age divide on this subject occurs between ages 25-30.

The point, at least from me, is that while there are things WRONG with Brandon's hit it is not one that I would think would generate a suspension in the future. There are completely unnecessary hits like Clark's and then there are mishaps with poor judgement like Brandon's.

And I'm not even sure Harrison's hit on Massoqui is suspension worthy either, at fullspeed that hit really doesn't look like bad form just bad circumstance (a head collision from the side causing rotation is worse than a straight on hit). It takes far less force to cause a concussion when the head rotates than from straight on blunt force.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Slightly off topic, but Jerod Mayo implied that Meriweather's hit did help the Patriots for the remainder of the game.

It Is What It Is - Jerod Mayo on D&C: Brandon Meriweather hit ‘changed game’ vs. Ravens

Yeah, us sitting Meriweather and then switching to a zone defense and them going up by ten after two third quarter scores probably had nothing to do with that. I mean why take what the defense is giving you... Meriweather's hit negated an otherwise fine play by his teamates on 2nd and 7 - so it at least avoided another potential 3rd down conversion.... Had he picked that ball, who knows what effect that field position/possession change would have had on the play of both our defense and Baltimore's offense going forward.

The defense didn't begin to make the stops they needed to until the 4th and 5th quarters.

 

[shmessy]

Mere miliseconds later at the point of impact, Brandon lowered his head bracing for impact, while Heap's body not only came down but fell forward putting his head at a position that Brandon never judged it to be...

The result is a very violent whiplash causing collision. Anyone who thinks it was a glancing blow is out of their mind. The crown of Brandon's helmet hits the front of Heap's and snaps his neck violently backwards. Very ugly collision, but not egregious, malicious or with intent from Brandon Meriweather.

1) No one points their head towards the oncoming collision in order to "brace for impact".

2) The point is not malicious intent by BM, but sheer incompetent tackling - - THAT is what has landed him in BB's doghouse before and earned him that sideline eye roll (I'd bet he got more than that in the lockerroom and this week) from BB at the game.

He has to get better at his craft if he doesn't want another fine or penalty. He has publicly acknowledged what you refuse to. It is what it is.

 

[DaBruinz]

You do realize this makes absolutely zero sense.

Thanks for proving my point

Actually, I didn't prove your point. I proved mine in that you didn't know what you are talking about.

And yes, it does make sense for a 5'11" inch guy to leave his feet to contact a jumping 6'5" guy who also well.... jumped. A review of physics combined with mathematical calculation would show the taller guy who gets taller would require a mechanism of getting "taller" with respect to the shorter guy.

Instead of attempting to show yourself to be smart, just focus on writing coherent sentences. Your last sentence is just nonsensical babble that is meaningless.

A review of physics and 3D Geometry would show that by launching himself in the air, the 5'11 person almost guarantees himself hitting the 6'5 person high on the body (upper chest/head area). Not launching himself means that Meriweather would have avoided almost any potential for helmet to helmet contact and hit Heap lower on the body, possible in the gut or even the legs.

I would refer you to a game called basketball. I review of it's play would show a game with players of varying size and a ball do produce situations where various other players do in fact leave their feet. This is ofter referred to as "jumping"

Basketball is not football. The situations that the skills are being used in are completely different. This can only be an attempt by you to spin the situation. Unfortunately, you've failed.

Furthermore, when homo sapiens do "jump" the tendency is for the top of the organism (the head) to lead. Few are the times when an organism vertically leads with their feet.

Typical. Someone who has lost an argument spewing irrelevant drivel because he can't admit he's wrong.

You've proven that you have no ability to think logically and that subjects such as 3D Geometry and Physics are beyond your grasp.

You've failed in presenting and defending your argument. Move on.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Who claimed that the hit was "deliberate pathological behavior"?

Merriwether didn't exhibit "deliberate pathological behavior" - - he made a malpractice mistake, owned up to it and apologized.

The video fanboys who like to watch things blow up are the only one exhibiting "deliberate pathological behavior".

Like I said before, I bet the age divide on this subject occurs between ages 25-30.

Thank you.

How do you define "dirty hits", "malicious", "cheap shot" or "head hunting"?


The reality is the kid has been unfairly made into the devient poster child for a problem the league has allowed for years. A problem due in part to rules in the passing game they specifically dictated.

If your criticism is related to poor technique and lack of situational awareness, I would certainly not argue.

 

[emoney_33]

1) No one points their head towards the oncoming collision in order to "brace for impact".

Just because the collision happened when it did doesn't mean Brandon was pointing towards the collision. If you watch it through it seems as he's trying to get his shoulder up and roll his head. It's quite possible that the collision came sooner than Brandon anticipated. If Heap doesn't fall FORWARD the impact comes later and is far better looking.

2) The point is not malicious intent by BM, but sheer incompetent tackling - - THAT is what has landed him in BB's doghouse before and earned him that sideline eye roll (I'd bet he got more than that in the lockerroom and this week) from BB at the game.

Yeah I never said there was NOTHING wrong with it, just wasn't something I'd think warrants suspension. If they suspend for potential mistimings and misjudgements like that, and the huge gray area that exists, then it will FORCE defenses to change.

He has to get better at his craft if he doesn't want another fine or penalty. He has publicly acknowledged what you refuse to. It is what it is.

He first said he wasn't changing his game, I'm sure the Patriots told him to "publicly acknowledge" it. But I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything except that it wasn't one of the unnecessary hits that I would think warrants suspension (like Clark's on Welker).

 

[DaBruinz]

What the HELL are you talking about? You are the one comparing Clark and Brandon's hits which are not even remotely similar and Clark's is the one that a player should be suspended for, not Brandon's.

Clearly you have issues.

BOTH hits are illegal. Period. Only someone who is completely ignorant of the rules would say that there are no similarities between the hit by Clark and the hit by Meriweather.

1) Both players left their feet
2) Both players led with their helmets, Meriweather more so.
3) Both players hit defenseless receivers.

Clearly I know what I am talking about. Clearly you don't.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Actually, I didn't prove your point. I proved mine in that you didn't know what you are talking about.



Instead of attempting to show yourself to be smart, just focus on writing coherent sentences. Your last sentence is just nonsensical babble that is meaningless.

A review of physics and 3D Geometry would show that by launching himself in the air, the 5'11 person almost guarantees himself hitting the 6'5 person high on the body (upper chest/head area). Not launching himself means that Meriweather would have avoided almost any potential for helmet to helmet contact and hit Heap lower on the body, possible in the gut or even the legs.



Basketball is not football. The situations that the skills are being used in are completely different. This can only be an attempt by you to spin the situation. Unfortunately, you've failed.



Typical. Someone who has lost an argument spewing irrelevant drivel because he can't admit he's wrong.

You've proven that you have no ability to think logically and that subjects such as 3D Geometry and Physics are beyond your grasp.

You've failed in presenting and defending your argument. Move on.

Yup

You did prove your point.

Which is your points are pointless.

 

[emoney_33]

A review of physics and 3D Geometry would show that by launching himself in the air, the 5'11 person almost guarantees himself hitting the 6'5 person high on the body (upper chest/head area). Not launching himself means that Meriweather would have avoided almost any potential for helmet to helmet contact and hit Heap lower on the body, possible in the gut or even the legs.

Just review the tape lol. He is at most a couple inches off his feet, but yeah I'm sure it's a good idea to coach guys to just stand there and wait for the receiver to land and potentially secure the ball.

Typical. Someone who has lost an argument spewing irrelevant drivel because he can't admit he's wrong.

Why are you so intent on winning and losing arguments?

You've proven that you have no ability to think logically and that subjects such as 3D Geometry and Physics are beyond your grasp.

You've failed in presenting and defending your argument. Move on.

I disagree, he's presenting it just fine. He's gotten a little "humerous" because people continue to say outlandish things like Brandon at 5'11 shouldn't ever jump towards a leaping 6'5 TE

 

[emoney_33]

Clearly you have issues.

BOTH hits are illegal. Period. Only someone who is completely ignorant of the rules would say that there are no similarities between the hit by Clark and the hit by Meriweather.

1) Both players left their feet
2) Both players led with their helmets, Meriweather more so.
3) Both players hit defenseless receivers.

Clearly I know what I am talking about. Clearly you don't.

You clearly have no idea wtf you are talking about lol. The whole point is not whether Brandon's hit is illegal, it's whether going forward it is something to suspend for. Clark's hit? YES Brandon's hit? NO

It's really quite simple, Clark's hit was egregious and dangerous. Brandon's was not (every hit is "dangerous", they are all wearing helmets). To compare a guy running with full momentum, ****ing back and just launching directly into a receiver, coming off the ground a few feet to a guy who was running laterally, stopped and jumped to hit a leaping receiver in the air (while only coming off the ground a few inches anyway) is beyond absurd. BEYOND absurd.

What's even funnier is Brandon's first "hit" that there was 0 helmet to helmet contact was WORSE and less innocent than the one that connected. The hit he MISSED was the bad one (if I remember it correctly, I have no video of that one).

 

[DaBruinz]

Again I really don't understand why I am arguing with someone who bends, twists and warps the truth while flat out lying at other times. His head was not down until the last moments before impact. I verify my facts before I post them, you just spout them from "memory".

Sorry, but I am no liar and you claiming so is absolutely pathetic on your part. As is your claim that you "check your facts." Clearly you haven't checked your facts on your claim that I lied. Typical of someone who has lost an argument. Make asinine claims in hopes that no one actually checks.

BTW, a second lie I have you in is your claim that I said Meriweather should be suspended. No where did I say that. You can't find it. So keep flapping your trap. I enjoy showing you to be wrong.

You are completely wrong on the entire thing, and again it leads me to believe you have not re-watched it. He barely left his feet anyway.

I have re-watched it numerous times. The fact that he "barely left his feet" doesn't matter. He still launched himself by the definition of the rule. You can sit there and whine otherwise, but you've completely failed in every aspect to prove that Meriweather shouldn't have been fined.

Again, it depends on how they suspend but it certainly does prevent the defense from knocking the ball out if they are going to be extra safe with defenseless receivers. If accidental misjudgements warrant suspension then players will be coached to not take that risk. There will be less and less attempts to jar the ball loose and it will become easier to catch balls over the middle. There is no ignorance here.

There isn't any ignorance? You sure haven't proven it. All you have done is make up ludicrous excuses for why Meriweather's hit was legal. Unfortunately for you, I proved how it broke 2 different rules. One of which has been on the books for at least 13 seasons.

There was no accidental misjudgement on Meriweather's part. Also, a player can jar the ball lose without launching himself at a defenseless receiver. It's called actually aiming for the ball, which was not up by Heap's head.

Meriweather could have, very easily, planted himself and hit Heap without leaving his feet.

Are you talking about this hit?

YouTube - DeSean Jackson vs Dunta Robinson HUGE HIT !

Someone who claims to be so smart should be able to figure it out for himself. Oh, and neither of the angles presented in that video show that Robinson's helmet didn't actually make contact with Jackson's.

NFL Videos: Playbook: Legal hits?

Robinson neither led with his helmet nor launched himself.

Jim Leonhard's hit was also legal and should not have been penalized.

In the first photo, Brandon stops his lateral momentum to begin his new decision to go for the hit...

In the second photo, Brandon begins his "launch", head up arms coming out...

In this third photo, moments before impact and Brandon's head is still NOT down and it looks likely to hit Heap in the chest...

Mere miliseconds later at the point of impact, Brandon lowered his head bracing for impact, while Heap's body not only came down but fell forward putting his head at a position that Brandon never judged it to be...

Physics and 3D Geometry say that had Meriweather not left his feet, then Heap wouldn't have gotten hit in the head. Then it would be a non-issue.



The result is a very violent whiplash causing collision. Anyone who thinks it was a glancing blow is out of their mind. The crown of Brandon's helmet hits the front of Heap's and snaps his neck violently backwards. Very ugly collision, but not egregious, malicious or with intent from Brandon Meriweather.

Do you understand the word egregious? It means shockingly bad. And it was. Meriweather launched himself at a defenseless receiver and hit him in the head, helmet to helmet. Plain and simple. That's a flag and a fine.

If you do it consistently, it should be a suspension. I have no issue with that either.

When Rodney Harrison comes out and says that Meriweather went high when he didn't have to, you know there is an issue. Heck, Meriweather said he was aiming high. Not the head, but still high and that he needed to lower the point where he was aiming for.

 

[DaBruinz]

You clearly have no idea wtf you are talking about lol. The whole point is not whether Brandon's hit is illegal, it's whether going forward it is something to suspend for. Clark's hit? YES Brandon's hit? NO

Clearly, you are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. Unlike you, I am using the RULE to defend my stance. You aren't using anything but your own opinion to defend yours.

It's really quite simple, Clark's hit was egregious and dangerous. Brandon's was not (every hit is "dangerous", they are all wearing helmets). To compare a guy running with full momentum, ****ing back and just launching directly into a receiver, coming off the ground a few feet to a guy who was running laterally, stopped and jumped to hit a leaping receiver in the air (while only coming off the ground a few inches anyway) is beyond absurd. BEYOND absurd.

What is quite simple is that you don't understand the rule that is being talked about. There is no distinction between whether a guy is running full force and launches himself or if he launches himself from a dead stop. Launching yourself at a defenseless receiver is illegal. Period.

What is absurd is that you continue with your ridiculous stance when even Meriweather and Rodney Harrison disagree with you. Why do you think Meriweather is not appealing the fine? Because Rodney made him realize that what he did was WRONG.

Brandon's hit was egregious (again, it helps to know the definition of the words you are using.) He launched himself at a defenseless receiver and hit Heap, Helmet to Helmet.

What's even funnier is Brandon's first "hit" that there was 0 helmet to helmet contact was WORSE and less innocent than the one that connected. The hit he MISSED was the bad one (if I remember it correctly, I have no video of that one).

Here is one video that includes the hit you are referencing. At about the 1:10 mark of the video through the end.
YouTube - Heap takes cheap shot from Merriweather.wmv

Not sure why you think it was worse and less innocent. Heap wasn't defenseless. Meriweather led with his shoulder. And there was no helmet to helmet contact.

 

[emoney_33]

Sorry, but I am no liar and you claiming so is absolutely pathetic on your part. As is your claim that you "check your facts." Clearly you haven't checked your facts on your claim that I lied. Typical of someone who has lost an argument. Make asinine claims in hopes that no one actually checks.

BTW, a second lie I have you in is your claim that I said Meriweather should be suspended. No where did I say that. You can't find it. So keep flapping your trap. I enjoy showing you to be wrong.

I said you lied because you did. You claimed that Brandon put his head down before he launched, thats not the case. I also never said you claimed that he should be suspended. If you weren't so intent on attempting to "win" an argument, maybe you would actually read what other people write and follow the discussion.

I have re-watched it numerous times. The fact that he "barely left his feet" doesn't matter. He still launched himself by the definition of the rule. You can sit there and whine otherwise, but you've completely failed in every aspect to prove that Meriweather shouldn't have been fined.

I never discussed whether or not he launched by definition of the rule. Again, stop being determined to "win" an argument and READ to comprehend.

There isn't any ignorance? You sure haven't proven it. All you have done is make up ludicrous excuses for why Meriweather's hit was legal. Unfortunately for you, I proved how it broke 2 different rules. One of which has been on the books for at least 13 seasons.

See above, I never said it was legal that is not the point of my argument.

There was no accidental misjudgement on Meriweather's part. Also, a player can jar the ball lose without launching himself at a defenseless receiver. It's called actually aiming for the ball, which was not up by Heap's head.

Meriweather could have, very easily, planted himself and hit Heap without leaving his feet.

There was absolutely without a doubt misjudgement on Brandon's part. FOr you to suggest that he AIMED at his friend's head is just stupid.

Someone who claims to be so smart should be able to figure it out for himself. Oh, and neither of the angles presented in that video show that Robinson's helmet didn't actually make contact with Jackson's.

He put his head down, if the receiver alters his head or comes down then the helmets connect. Good grief, do you even listen to yourself.

Robinson neither led with his helmet nor launched himself.

Jim Leonhard's hit was also legal and should not have been penalized.

Robinson didn't lead with his helmet? WTF are you watching.

Do you understand the word egregious? It means shockingly bad. And it was. Meriweather launched himself at a defenseless receiver and hit him in the head, helmet to helmet. Plain and simple. That's a flag and a fine.

Yes I know what the word means. Stop littering personal attacks all throughout in your attempt to seem like you are intelligent or are "winning" something here. It was not egregious.

If you do it consistently, it should be a suspension. I have no issue with that either.

I can agree with that, if a player continues to cause injury they should be reprimanded justly.

When Rodney Harrison comes out and says that Meriweather went high when he didn't have to, you know there is an issue. Heck, Meriweather said he was aiming high. Not the head, but still high and that he needed to lower the point where he was aiming for.

Right the chest is "high" and perfectly legal. I rather he aim for the chest than upend a receiver in the air which is dangerous as well.

Anyway I'm done with this debate because it's clear that you make up your mind and then only have one goal which is to "win". You should probably stop trying so hard to "win" an argument, and just try to comprehend what others are saying.

 

[Batman]

If he doesn't jump his shoulder goes into Mayo's head I will take the hit to Heaps head over Mayo's. It's simple physics ad 3G geometry.