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Merged: Speculation on why/how this came to pass

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AzPatsFan, Oct 6, 2010.

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  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Belichick made a dispassionate, analytical CAP decision to re-sign Brady, Wilfork, Gostkowski and Mankins and there was no money for Richard Seymour. Or eventually Moss in 2011.

    So he traded Seymour. Well Moss is gone, Mankins unexpectedly won't sign, the other re-signings are done. So the pot of money intended for at least one or maybe two of them, (Mankins and Moss) is now available for re-assignment and use.

    This young Defense needs a RDE, that fits the team, and a leader. A mature vet would be ideal. We could draft one, but Richard Seymour meets all those criteria. He is a Franchised right now, and will be a UFA after this season. We know he can excel in this 3-4 Defense and he is a respected leader, perhaps sobered by a few years seeing how others live.

    Derrick Burgess acknowledged that he solicited advice from Seymour when the Pats traded for him and Richard said the Pats were a fine place to play, and he bore no grudges.

    There is no reason not to resign Seymour, then. It is like getting another First rounder, and the Oakland pick can be looked at as a rental fee. The young DLs can have the time to mature behind Richard Seymour, Wilfork and Ty Warren.

    Then the Pats can afford to use one of the #1s to draft a WR like AJ Green, as well as an OLB like Robert Quinn, by using spare 3s and 4s to trade up. They can use the 2nds for a RB and an Offensive lineman. Team rebuilding is then complete, with young talent everywhere.

    Brady will have a newly rebuilt Patriots SuperBowl contender for the remainder of his career.

    If Moss does not get big bucks for a long time, he may be more amenable to resigning for lower money for the balance of his career, knowing that is all anyone will pay. So why not get a Ring and catch passes from Tom Brady? Its obvious that Moss tried desperately not to leave the Pats, and it explains his post Bengals game pleading.

    But at the same time he is no business fool, and he wanted the money that Bill Belichick no longer thought he was worth, but someone else might.

    The Vikes are all-in for this last shot in 2010. Moss won't want to start a rebuild in 2011, at this stage of his career; nor would the Vikes likely pay him, while they are doing so.

    As the French King said: "Apres moi, Le Deluge!"

    Resign SeyMonsta!! And maybe Moss too. :D

    Anybody agree? Did Belichick shrewdly anticipate this when he wanted a 2011 not a 2010 #1 pick from the Raiders?
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A rational hypothesis is Moss wanted out, made it clear since week 1 he wanted out and made it clear he wasn't going to be marginalized in this offense in his contract season on the heels of the MNF game. Seems he did have a controntation with Bill, only it was O'Brien at halftime Monday night...per Reiss.
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Is something else going on?

    I asked this in another thread, but did not get an answer.

    The trade, in general, makes some sense knowing BB's propensity for stockpiling picks and maximizing unsignable players value (i.e. Seymour et all). It's now clear we weren't planning on signing Moss after this year, so getting something for nothing but his service for the next 12 games + playoffs does make sense in a BB world.

    With that said though

    We now have 8 picks in the first 4 rounds next year. We couldn't possibly sign them all if we wanted too. That is a ridiculous number, even for BB. Plus we have Mankins just sitting on the sidelines doing nothing, and it's very apparent we don't really need him (at least for the money he's asking).

    Same with Moss. No reason to trade him now (he clearly helps this offense even with his reduced production - he does appear to have finally lost a step this year). Still, no reason to unload him for a pick we don't need (and possible can't afford) for no reason.

    Does anyone smell something in the water here, as it relates to a trade? I know it's uncharacteristic of BB to do something like this, but the current situation is weird.

    I'm thinking an impact defense player for a low rounder (or 2, or in combo with Mankins). I know some teams are looking to unload high priced impact players to stock up for the future. I know Buffalo might be induced to give up Evans (as an example), for a 2nd or 3rd.

    Just looking for opinions. What do you all think? Of all the puzzling BB moves, this one is up there for me.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  4. Sonnet

    Sonnet Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    Moss getting into it with the OC sped up his exit?
  5. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    I wondered about Evans too, but I think Buffalo will ask for the moon before they'd trade him to a division rival that has absolutely owned them throughout the era of the iPod.

    I'd rather see a marquee pass rusher coming this way. Even without Moss, there are still a lot of guys on the offensive side that provide mismatches. There will still be open receivers.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    I believe the answer is NO other than Belichick acquiring tradable commodities in case someone comes calling. I don't think anything else is going on for now, though.
  7. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    I really think it's a mistake to look at the draft compensation as any factor whatsoever in this decision. They already had tons of draft picks and tons of youth. IMO this was about moving out a disgruntled vet, pure and simple.
  8. scout

    scout Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    BB will trade those picks. Either next year's #3 for a #2 the following year, or he will package some and move up. I don't see him holding and drafting.
  9. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    3rd rounder is not valuable enough for this to be a purely trade-value move. Moss' 2010 offensive value is worth more than 2011 3rd rounder IMO. There has to be more, and the "more" was probably Moss' unhappiness with his lack of contract and not being a big part of gameplans.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  10. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    True.... but what to do with it now that it's there. Theres no room at the "Kids" picnic for 8 more kids, so what do we do. Continue to "play them forward"?

    It's what been done, I just wondered if there wasn't opportunity. We just free'd up a TON of cash, and could free up a ton more for Mankins, who we are absolutely not signing (I'm convinced of that).
  11. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    Factor in that the 2011 draft (pending any CBA nonsense that causes top juniors to stay in school) is expected to be top-heavy but extremely shallow. By my figuring, which you should take with a grain of salt, the pickin's will be slim by the time the Moss and Maroney picks roll around.

    While they could move some to 2012, I think there is a better use for them. Package them to move around and get 4 target guys in the first 2 rounds. Those 4 guys could finish up the youth movement on defense and continue the reinvention of the OL. Maybe jump on a WR or RB is someone falls far enough (that Panthers 2nd is shaping up to be a great spot to get key players that slide out of day 1).

    So I expect 2011 to be the year where the Pats cash in their assets instead of investing them for the future. By a combination of happenstance and solid planning, it looks to be a fine year to do precisely that.
  12. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    If BB believed that Moss' presence and even quiet but consistent lobbying for more attention and catches had or would become a distraction to Brady, I could see him making the move. Just invested the owners' wealth to secure Brady thru half the decade. Unwise to allow other controllable situations reduce the value of that investment.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Few people will listen to this but i think you hit the nail on the head in two sentences.

    Moss would have become a bigger and bigger distraction, something really detrimental to the team but especially all the young players.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  14. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    You have to wonder if Sidney Rice going down made this all happen or was this in the works before the season even started?

    I think when Randy made that statement last year it all began and Randy was a problem with team chemistry,the team decided to keep his whining ass until the bye week this season and probably told him he was gone by week 5

    This DID NOT happen overnight and WAS NOT because of an alleged dispute after the MNF game,this was going on for quite a while and since Randy did not get an extension after Brady got his,it escalated the impatience on both sides to even greater levels.

    This was going to happen before the first kickoff of 2010,I have no doubts


    Thats my take
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Re: Is something else going on?

    Yes plus I think BB learned last year that a cancer in the locker room is a very bad thing. So one way or another BB was going to terminate that cancer.

    If all he could get from the Vikings was a third, then so be it. I really don;t see that there were any other real options on the Moss trade front.
  16. NSpatsfan

    NSpatsfan Rookie

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    If you read what Bill said and look at what happened, for me this is exactly how it played out, Randy wants to get his last big payday and given how things were going here it was not going to happen for him so he wanted out.
  17. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    I believe Moss gave up more money with his stupidity and Mankins did with his. Mankins will at least still eventually get a solid deal somewhere at some point.

    Moss' only hope was to keep his yap shut and play for one more payday. the vikings are just renting him for the rest of the season. at this point with switching teams, his numbers will probably require him to have a 'prove it' season with anyone he signs with just like he did with the pats. especially since favre isn't going to get him the ball with that crap OL and his limp arm
  18. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With labor and CBA uncertainty I believe that the Patriots have made Mankins a better offer than he will eventually sign
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