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Memo warned of ceiling collapse

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://www.boston.com/news/traffic/bigdig/articles/2006/07/26/memo_warned_of_ceiling_collapse/

    The on-site safety officer for the Interstate 90 connector directly warned his superiors at contractor Modern Continental Construction Co. that the tunnel ceiling could collapse because the bolts could not support the heavy concrete panels, and feared for his conscience if someone died as a result.
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    John J. Keaveney -- in a starkly-worded two-page memo sent in 1999 to Robert Coutts, senior project manager for Modern Continental -- wrote that he could not ``comprehend how this structure can withhold the test of time."

    Keaveney added: ``Should any innocent State Worker or member of the Public be seriously injured or even worse killed as a result, I feel that this would be something that would reflect Mentally and Emotionally upon me, and all who are trying to construct a quality Project."

    ***

    More corporate ineptitude and corruption. Bring back more oversight and regulation of corporations to prevent this type of incompetence. Let's hope Angel Deville finds a trial lawyer who can so those contractors for enough money that they learn a lesson. I hope he gets $100 million.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This stuff should make for interesting depositions when this case comes up for trial... looks more and more like there is an interesting paper trail of liability.
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Hey Patters...where you been...hanging out at the Kennedy compound again...advising the Kennedy's so they can speak coherently and with purpose? How are we going to bash them if you keep helping them?

    Just kidding of course...you obviously know how to enjoy the summer. You tend to disappear alot...I envy you, I have never been able to cure myself of work-aholicism.

    Sad that Amorello has held his job for so long. Many other culprits of course, but he is the man in charge of keeping the public safe...I wonder what his golf handicap is...probably in the single digits.
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah..!! Let's stick it to those eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil corporations and bring in more politicians and public workers - that'll solve the problem..!!
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    The government is just another corporation. The contractors are no more (or less) guilty than the state. It took a private sector/public sector partnership to screw up this badly. It's not a secret, people joke about it at the watercooler: the government is completely inept. It's when stuff like this happens that everyone stops laughing.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wasn't it you whose knee-jerk response to the tragedy was to blame the union workers? Hmmm. Why are you sucking up to the big corporation that apparently instituted a system that allowed safety recommendations to go unheeded? Why do you have a lower standard for white collar workers than for blue collar ones?
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Exactly...anyone in business knows how this all happened. Requests for $$$ kept coming in and the politicians rubber stamped it all because they had other things to do like play golf and have lunch or bang their Ho's at the hotels.

    Projects that involve public safety should always have an oversight group. Not to say that's the solution...but better than depending on lazy politicians.
  8. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I am not sucking up to anyone. I have stated repeatedly that there is plenty of blame to go around to everyone in this debacle. From politicians to civil servants to engineers to corrupt corporate management to the lazy-ass union workers; Everyone was on the take, everyone was stealing money, everyone was doing shoddy workmanship, everyone was doing as little as they possibly could but charging as much as they possibly could.

    That's how things work in the Commonwealth. It isn't like this in other states (and it wasn't always like this here). But that's just a reality of the corrupt infrastructure of the most liberal state in the country.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2005
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    We *ARE* one of the more corrupt states, but I have friends who live all over the country and it's pretty much the same everywhere, it's just more in the open here.
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Bullcrap. I drove through the big tunnel in downtown Baltimore and I saw a beatifully designed construct with tiles all the way to the ceiling and people driving through (presumably) without being in fear for their lives. I've also driven the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel. Something like that could never be successfully built in Massachusetts.
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    In terms of the amount of earth moved, the Big Dig was the largest project in the history of humanity. If we had a Chesapeake Bay, I'm sure we'd have built the bridge instead. If you think public corruption is unique to Massachusetts, you're living under a rock. It's exasperated in MA because we have a one-party system, and hence not as many checks and balances, but all you need to do is read the news to see the same kind of s--t happening everywhere, both on a state and federal level.
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Nem, am I allowed to post an opinion on any subject to this forum without you sarcastically remarking "Oh, so now you are an expert on such-and-such"...?

    Patters, I know you won't do anything since Nem is a liberal, but this is the sort of personal attack that is completely inappropriate for this forum, don't you agree..?

    But, as Nem himself likes to say "When you have no response, resort to personal attacks".
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2006
  13. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I didn't say it was unique to Massachusetts. I said it is far worse here than it is in other states. I also said Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the union. I do not see those two statements as merely coincidence.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2005
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    And our federal government has the most conservative (by the new definition of the word) administration we've seen in decades, and they're the most corrupt, too. Coincidence? Yes.

    The problem exists regardless of which party's in charge - they both want to screw you and me - it just gets worse when there is only one party with nobody opposing them. Matthew Amorello's a Republican, by the way.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, so far I don't know of any evidence pointing to union workers. They might have had a good contract that gave them great pay and plenty of breaks, I don't know, but that's how things work in the United States. You negotiate the best deal you can get. So far, there's no evidence suggesting that the union workers did anything wrong. Is there?

    As far as the corrupt infrastructure, it's worth noting that a lot of corruption came from the Republicans. Remember Joe Mallone? What about Amarello, a Republican and Republican appointee? That said, there's probably some Dem corruption as well, but maybe they're just better at it ;) There's corruption in just about every state, liberal or conservative (look at Ohio, for instance). But, at least it's easier to catch corruption in government, because it can't as easily conceal its records.
  16. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    There was that report about 2 years ago about the construction workers who were working drunk. I think a few terminations took place because of it.
    It's a different kind of corruption, the government doesn't need to conceal records because it decides what the law is. Certainly it can be stopped if there's enough outrage, but the government can count on the fact that most people don't care, or are too busy being outraged by something else at the moment to pay much attention. We can go on all day about the theories of open government, but in the real world government corruption has as much (I'd say more) of an impact on our lives than corporate corroption.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2006
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure that's true. Let's say for argument's sake that 1% of people are willing to engage in serious corruption. There's no reason to believe that government should get a disproportionate number of these people. On the other hand, there is reason to believe that it's a little harder in federal government to get away with crimes because there are many public watchdog groups and our legal system tends to side with the public when it comes to releasing information. Business is in a better position to get away with crime.

    That said, there's probably more incompetence in government than in private business, because the former is less concerned with the bottom line.
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    But what is "serious corruption"..? Did you see the pictures on those Con-Ed guys in NY taking naps right in their trucks on the job...? Is that "serious corruption"...? When one union guy sleeps through an hour of his $50-per-hour job, it usually doesn't make headlines but. But when 1,000 guys are doing the same, does it then become "serious corruption"...?
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have you ever worked among a large group of people? I've never worked for a union company, but I've worked for two world-class companies, both top in their business sector, and the same kind of corruption you describe exists there. If you work in white collar, walk by some cubicles and tell me how many people are on the phone or surfing the net. Tell me how many people "work at home," take long lunches, and come in late.

    People are honest because they are honest as individuals, not because of the company or agency they happen to work for.
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Ah, but here's the rub: Too much of that can get you fired and it certainly hurts your chances at promotion. That's why you see so much of that activity going on in the cubicles but not in the corner offices. But in labor unions, you can get caught sleeping on the job and there isn't a darn thing management can do about it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2005

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