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Mel Kiper First Mock

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mayoclinic, Jan 20, 2010.

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  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kiper's 1st mock is out on ESPN Insider:

    Mel Kiper: DT Ndamukong Suh tops the first 2010 NFL mock draft - ESPN

    He has us taking Ricky Sapp in the 1st. Bleh.

    For those who don't have ESPNInsider, his complete 1st round is:

    1. St. Louis - Ndamukong Suh, DT
    2. Detroit - Gerald McCoy, DT
    3. Tampa Bay - Eric Berry, S
    4. Washington - Sam Bradford, QB
    5. Kansas City - Russell Okung, OT
    6. Seattle - Derrick Morgan, DE
    7. Cleveland - Joe Haden, CB
    8. Oakland - Anthony Davis, OT
    9. Buffalo - Jimmy Clausen, QB
    10. Denver - Dez Bryant, WR
    11. Jacksonville - Jason Pierre-Paul DE
    12. Miami - Rolando McClain, ILB
    13. San Francisco - Trent Williams, OT
    14. Seattle - CJ Spiller, RB
    15. NY Giants - Carlos Dunlap, DE
    16. San Francisco - Earl Thomas, S
    17. Tennessee - Everson Griffen, DE
    18. Pittsburgh - Brian Bulaga, OT
    19. Atlanta - Sergio Kindle, OLB
    20. Houston - Brian Price, DT
    21. Cincinnati - Aaron Hernandez, TE
    22. New England - Ricky Sapp, OLB
    23. Green Bay - Taylor Mays, S
    24. Philadelphia - Navarro Bowman, OLB
    25. Baltimore - Jermaine Gresham, TE
    26. Arizona - Dan Williams, DT
    27. Dallas - Bruce Campbell, OT
    28. San Diego - Jonathan Dwyer, RB
    29. NY Jets - Golden Tate, WR
    30. Minnesota - Patrick Robinson, CB
    31. New Orleans - Jared Odrick, DT
    32. Indianapolis - Brandon Graham, DE

    Personally, I'd much rather take DT Dan Williams or OT Bruce Campbell than Sapp. I think both are much better talents and would add more.

    Some notable omissions from the 1st round include:

    - LB Sean Weatherspoon, Missouri - I'd take him over Bowman, personally, and I can't see NO passing him up.
    - DT Terrance Cody - too many 3-4 teams need DT help.
    - An interior lineman. Mike Iupati, Vlad Ducasse and Maurkice Pouncey all have potential.

    It's a pretty plausible 1st round, however. The biggest reach I see is CB Patrick Robinson, who I don't think is a 1st round player. Mot of the others are at least justifiable. In fact, Kiper's mock has a lot of similarities with my last mock:

    - St. Louis and Detroit taking Suh and McCoy 1-2
    - Buffalo going QB at #9 - I had them taking Sam Bradford instead of Clausen
    - Jacksonville taking the #2 DE at 11 - I thought they would take Everson Griffen over Jason Pierre-Paul
    - San Francisco going RT at #13. I had them taking Anthony Davis.
    - Cincinnati going TE at #21. I had them taking Jermaine Gresham. I think 21 is too early for Aaron Hernandez.
    - Dallas going OL at 27. I had them taking Mike Iupati.
    - San Diego taking Jonathan Dwyer.
    - The Jets going WR in the 1st. I had them taking Damien Williams.
     
  2. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hate the Ricky Sapp pick... not sure he can cover adequately in space or has the strength to set the edge in the NFL.
     
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm pretty sure he doesn't have the strength to set the edge.

    But again, there are quite a number of attractive prospects available at 22.
     
  4. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I disagree, mayoclinic. It's a piece of crap.

    1) The Rams do not take Suh. They need a quarterback too badly.
    2) Cody not going in the 1st round is abysmal. Too many teams need a 3-4 NT.
    3) Denver taking Bryant with McClain still on the board is laughable. They have lots of receiving talent - Marshall (RFA), Royal, Gaffney and Scheffler (RFA).
    4) Seattle need a QB (Hasselbeck's time is almost up, he's scared of the rush now, the poor guy) and a LT (hence why he's scared of the rush). Instead Kiper has them selecting a DE and RB. Crazy.
    5) Jason Pierre-Paul at 11? Really? The Jaguars certainly will be taking a pass-rusher, but if it's not Derrick Morgan then it's probably Everson Griffen. Pierre-Paul exemplifies boom or bust, and the Jags just busted on Derrick Harvey. They're picking the safest pass-rusher they can.
    6) When in need of a right tackle, the 49ers do not take the overrated Trent Williams. They take Bryan Bulaga, who clearly has the perfect RT skill-set to be playing in the NFL for a long time.
    7) As a GM who builds almost entirely through the draft, Ted Thompson is far too intelligent to take Taylor Mays. Besides, did you see how much Aaron Rodgers got sacked? They're taking the best tackle they can.
    8) The Bengals are not taking a tight end. They're taking a receiver? Why? Because Chris Henry died and now they only have one starting-quality receiver. Golden Tate's my guess if Dez Bryant doesn't fall.


    On the plus side, I might do my own 1st rounder tonight.
     
  5. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Let's put Sapp to the BB drafting test.

    1.) Does Sapp have the measurables? No not really, needs a lot of sand in the pants.

    2.) Is Sapp a three down player? No not really, more like a glorified pass rusher.

    3.) How does he project in our system? This one is intriguing because BB has film of him setting the edge on running plays, rushing the passer and playing in coverage. Does Sapp do them well enough to have a first round grade. Yes, he did a decent job setting the edge and is a good pass rusher. Not the best in coverage, but better than any other DE in this draft.

    In summary I can see BB taking Sapp, but I would prefer if it was in the second round.
     
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By "plausible" I meant that the picks were realistic, not that I agreed with them. And while you consider it "crap", it's much better than what I expected from Kiper this early in the year.

    I agree with several of your comments:

    - I gave Denver McClain and Miami Bryant in my mock. I like my version better. Henne desperately needs playmakers at WR, and I can't see Denver passing on McClain.
    - I also think Jacksonville goes DE at #11. I doubt Derrick Morgan is available. I agree with you, I had them taking Everson Griffen in my mock. I think Griffen will blow away the combine, and is a better complement to Derrick Harvey. Though he's also a bit of a "boom or bust" guy.
    - I had GB going OT in round 1. Brian Bulaga would be ideal if he slips. I think that Charlie Brown is also a possibility.
    - I agree Cody will go in the 1st because of need. I had Pittsburgh taking him #18 with Casey Hampton likely leaving in FA. If not, the Jets or Chargers could use him, or Denver will trade up to get back in the 1st round and take him.
    - I had Seattle taking Bruce Campbell at #6. I think Campbell will go top 10 after he blows away the combine, and he has Walter Jones kind of talent (not saying he will be anywhere near that good, though). I think Seattle builds a line first, before they go QB, which would be smart, especially since Hasselbeck still has a year or two left. I could see them taking any number of people at #14 - one of Bradford/Clausen if they last, CJ Spiller, or a defensive player. I had them taking Brian Price in my mock.
    - I don't think Trent Williams is a 1st round talent, and I had him going in the 40 range in my mock. I had the 49ers taking Anthony Davis. Brian Bulaga also makes a lot of sense. I thought the RT concept was correct, but the player was the wrong one.

    I disagree with you on a couple of points:

    - I think St. Louis takes Suh #1. If Locker had come out I would have had them taking Locker, but I just don't consider Clausen to be that good, and Suh is too good. Yes, they need a QB, but they can get one later (I had them taking one in the 2nd round, I believe), and Suh is a dominant talent. Imagine what he would do to Chris Long's game.
    - I could see the Bengals going TE, particularly Gresham. There's lots of depth in this draft to take a WR later, and Cincinnati has other weapons even without Chris Henry. Greshman would stretch the field and take really open things up for Carson Palmer.

    I'm looking forward to your mock.
     
  8. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Brooks' mock is even worse. Put it this way: Jimmy Clausen is not going in his 1st round. Nor is Eric Berry falling to 13th overall.


    EDIT: Hold on, hold on. I actually laughed out loud.


    NO QUARTERBACK IS TAKEN IN THE FIRST 25 PICKS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now THAT draft is a piece of crap:

    1. Trent Williams going #4? Please.
    2. Carlos Dunlap at #6 is a big reach right now.
    3. Russell Okung at #2 for the Lions is unlikely with Gerald McCoy on the board. The Lions president recently said they are happy with Backus at LT, and #2 is a reach for Okung.
    4. Jason Pierre-Paul at #8 is a reach, though of course, it's Al Davis.
    5. Eric Berry slipping to #13? I don't think so.
    6. Joe Haden slipping to #16? I don't think so.
    7. Patrick Robinson at #18? I don't think so.
    8. Jahvid Best ahead of CJ Spiller? I don't think so. Best's concussion history will scare some teams away.
    9. Selvish Capers in the 1st round? I don't think so.

    Plus no Dan Williams in the 1st round. Very unlikely as things stand.

    Also, 15 seems high for Brandon Spikes, 19 high for Navorro Bowman, and 21 low for Dez Bryant.

    Lots of reaches and flails here. Sorry Nonentity, but Kiper's mock is brilliant in comparison to this piece of tripe.

    At 22, I'd take OT Brian Bulaga, DT Dan Williams or Terrance Cody, or RB CJ Spiller over Sapp by a mile. I'd probably take Spiller, as I think he's too good to pass up.
    9.
     
  10. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    For whatever reason I just saw that JPP went closer to the top 10 and that the Pats got Sapp and said, eh that's about what Kiper said too, right? :rolleyes: So I apologize for bringing this to the board.

    This guy's mock would be a wet dream for the 49ers though.
     
  11. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    2nd Round I can get on board with... use him in passing down situations where he can just rush the passer.

    I disagree with the coverage issue Ochmed, I know that Lane played against inferior competition, but he was more than adequate in coverage as a Junior.
     
  12. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    They did? I completely missed that. Well, that makes my draft interesting.

    I did actually wonder about this one. But their horrible run defense means that even Al Davis isn't that crazy. If I was in charge I would trade down and take Brian Price in the teens. Cody?

    Oh, no offence taken. I totally agree.
     
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just what we need. Shawn Crable II.
     
  14. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was actually Head Coach Jim Schwartz's end of the year press conference. He defended Backus' play, called him the Lion's best blocker, and said he should have gotten Pro Bowl recognition: "We have some good players. A lot of it is perception and reputation and things like that. When I got here in January of last year or whatever it was, one of the things that kept coming up is that (Jeff) Backus couldn’t play left tackle and that we needed to get a left tackle. I thought Jeff Backus had an outstanding season. He was consistent from start to finish; he’s available for every single game; he was our best run-blocker this year; we had issues on this team and left tackle wasn’t one of them."

    Doesn't sound like he things LT is the teams top priority for using the #2 pick in the draft, does it? Though GM Martin Mayhew has talked about moving Backus to guard, so you never know.

    Head Coach Jim Schwartz Press Conference Transcript
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At this point in the season what I find interesting in Kiper's mock is the three runs he projects: OT, DE/rush LB, and later DT.
     
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess Kiper thinks that we are extrending Wilfork and Watson, otherwise Greshem or Dan Williams or even Tate make more sense for us.

    And it seems that Cody is on his way down as Williams is on the way up. Pro days and the combine will be critical for them.

     
  17. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I know most here don't like him but I have seen him play and like him. He can get to the passer. Would he fit in with us....I have no idea. BB makes that decision.
    I agree 2nd round would be a better round IF we grabbed him.
     
  18. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Has Kiper ever predicted a Patriots pick? I always remember him being dumbfounded and critical of the Pats picks on draft day
     
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kiper is not useful for predicting patriot picks. However, his early analysis is better than most.

    If you want better analysis close to the draft, I would chooie Gosselin.
     
  20. nycdan

    nycdan Rookie

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    They forgot the part where the Jets trade up for Cleveland's #1 pick for their own 1st and 5th rounders and a bacon-double-cheesburger.

    Eric Mangini...the gift that keeps on giving...
     
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