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Media Silence Is Deafening About Important Gun News

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The USSC overturned gun control laws in Chicago and DC. Libs predicted a bloodbath. Guess what ? the opposite happened.:



    People tend to cling to their dogma's rather than learning from experience. Some policies work many are counterproductive, but people cling to counterproductive notions even when confronted by clear evidence they are wrong.
  2. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    It's hilarious how not only does the left wing hyperbole (i.e. "go back to the old west") not only fails to pass, but the opposite takes place.
  3. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Well, I am not a fan of incorporation, and that being the basis of the USSC decision. It steps on State's rights.

    However, I am a huge supporter of gun ownership rights.

    Jefferson said it best:
    The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I'm not familiar with the decision, but one problem with state's rights is highlighted by this issue. The country simply isn't the same as it was in the late 1700s, obviously. The colonies were far more comparable to separate countries than they are today, and people travel much more. So when laws in one state are completely counter to laws in another, citizens can easily break laws without even knowing it.

    So when it comes to gun ownership, leaving aside the 2nd amendment and any arguments over its language, if I were to drive cross country and wanted a gun with me for protection (or any other reason), my choices would be either to check the laws in each state or risk breaking laws without taking any different action in each place. Some people may be ok with that, but I view it as overly intrusive on the individual.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Change takes time.

    Just look at issues of race, marijuana, gay marriage, etc. it does take people time to let go of their beliefs, but it happens over time.

    Maybe guns will be an area where change can occur and it will please the right that what we now view as the left's attitudes become less commonly held.
  6. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf

    They used the 14th and incorporation. Again, not a fan of the how. But I do respect the second as a right reserved to the People.
  7. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    lolfox says look deeper...
  8. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free...

    Gun violence is down pretty much all over the country, along with violent crimes in general..

    This is another case of Fox Logic, the SCOTUS overturns a gun law thus crimes of violence goes down is not a logical conclusion as they fail to look at national trends.. there are those who just follow along and choose not to think.

    With the same line of reasoning then drugs should be legalized as the limits on gun control has had such an overwhelming effect on crime...
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you don't like guns, if you don't want to own a gun by all means Stay Away from them but don't try to force your beliefs and fears on your neighbor.

    If nothing is done to enforce the laws we already have why do the fools try to create new laws, if they CAN"T take the criminals gun away then they themselves should provide training and allow the Law Abiding Citizen who so wishes to own and carry a concealed weapon anywhere in America.

    The Hells Angels, The Skin Heads, The Crips, The Bloods and millions of dirty little back alley "holdup punks" all walk the streets of America everyday carrying a concealed weapon, why shouldn't "The Good Guy" be allowed to do the same..

    :confused:
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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  12. patsfan13

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    The article documents violence down far more in the areas where the gun laws were overturned. These are facts.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :singing::singing::
    Barney:
    Imagine what The Gang Bangers would do to him.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Yup. Just like gay marriage. and pot.

    Bottom line is that a lot of Americans like to impose their views on others, and it spans party lines.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Very True..........
  16. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Are guns owned by the lawful the problem? Why are some people always looking to remove 2nd amendment rights from the very people who follow a licensing, and application process, complete with background checks and waiting periods, etc. from obtaining what is a constitutional right? A right that the founders clearly felt was one of the most critical in our society, as it's the 2nd right listed. One that is clear as the light of day:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    As a supporter of reasonable gun control, I totally abhor the excessive regulation of one's right to pack heat. I like the idea of a waiting period, a background check, and licensing as it related to carrying publically. What I hate is banning constitutional rights in entire cities, or passing laws that are designed to impede a citizens ability to arm themselves. In the end, a lawful owner of a weapon shouldn't be treated as the enemy. It's unlawful owners that deserve harsh treatment.


    What's funny is how the very people who love and support guns laws, or even want guns banned altogether, are the first people to complain about requiring ID to cast a vote. Why can one constitutional right be sensibly regulated, and the other not? But I digress...
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I agree with most of what you say here, RW.

    One thing I do struggle with is the question of whether people have any rights to ban handguns in a specified place, and if so, is it solely private property? So, in a very limited example, if I own a business establishment, should I be able to ban guns? I believe so, just as I think the business owner should be able to ban shirtless customers or permit smoking -- but those 2 examples, of course, aren't addressed in the Constitution.

    On a wider basis, can any form of community ban guns? Shouldn't people also have the right to live in an area without (legal) guns if they do desire? If so, how wide can the community be, and what kind of majority should be required? Like most restrictions, my own view is that a 51/49 vote doesn't suffice to put in place a restricion on individuals' behavior -- but what if it's 90/10?
  18. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Ahhh, but here you try to blur public domain vs. private domain. You say you own a business. It is your business and your property. You absolutely have the right as the property/business owner to make your own rules within your business. Just like shirts and shoes. (please include sleeves!:D) Hell, you have every right to ban anyone from wearing hats orcologne or the color purple clothes on your property. Its YOUR property.

    Public domain is very different. And here you bring to a concise head why I did not like the HOW of the SCOTUS decision. It steps on state's rights and community rights by incorporating the 14th. If they had used the tenth alone and decided once and finally that the second is a right reserved to the People and the People alone, I would feel differently about the decision.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The article references a blog, and when you go to the actual statistics it points out that it has decreased in Chicago... however when you look at actual trends there has been a continual decrease in gun violence across the country...

    Just because a blog says so, does not make it correct..

    Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The site documents far greater decreases where the gun laws were overturned, facts are facts. Almost double the natl ave IIRC.

    Deal with it, the rest is just spin.
  21. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The blog is spin as it has an obvious agenda.. the trends are obvious.
  22. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    just fyi, I'm not blurring anything -- I'm posing questions about where people think lines can be drawn.
  23. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Ok, no problem. It read kinda funny though. You mentioned your business, property rights, and then the public domain as if they were linked, at least thats how I read it. I'll go back and read it again. I might have read it wrong.
  24. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    no worries -- I may not have written it clearly. I was asking (or trying to) how people view each of the two -- private property and the public arena -- with regard to guns.
  25. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Shirtsleeve pretty much summed it up for me. Private versus public is the difference IMO. I'm no constitutional scholar or anything, but I would think in your question, a "community" could be an entire state possibly. For discussions sake, lets say the state of Vermont voted 90/10 to ban weapons. It still wouldn't fly I don't think, because state law cannot usurp constitutional rights. As for privately owned property, I personally agree, but I don't what the legal answer truly is. If I owned a nightclub, I don't think I'd want to allow guns inside.
  26. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Crime in general is down, but at any rate not many people are opposed anymore to the individual right to own guns. It took some education for some of us to realize that many gun owners are simply ordinary people who are into guns, sort of the way some people are into cars or antiques. I became more sympathetic to gun ownership after reading Truman Capote's In Cold Blood (which I read as an adult), where I came to realize that rural people can truly feel vulnerable without protection.

    Where we tend to disagree is that liberals are more supportive than many conservatives when it comes to closing gun show loopholes, conducting background checks, and targeting illegal sales. I think that has had the biggest impact on reducing gun related crime, not the fact that people of guns.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  27. DarrylS

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    People want to believe that because there are more guns there are less crime, but as pointed out previously crime is down across the nation. From our two largest cities, violent crime is significantly down....

    NYPD - Office of the Chief of Department

    LAPDCRIMEMAPS.ORG

    With the same line of reasoning as proposed by the Fox News Article, one could conclude that since Obama has been president violent crime has decreased significantly...

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