McGinest: "Starks played like trash. He was terrible."

[arrellbee]

Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

Whatever, McGinest. The Patriots probably win the Super Bowl last year except for the inexplicable poor play against Denver. It was an atypical performance, mostly unforced, with all the turnovers. So I don't want to hear the "The system was great, but it couldn't save us" stuff. Sure it couldn't save them from a loss after playing a horrendous game but it could save them from the personnel losses he's talking about. They just played a horrible playoff game.

Yes.__________

 

[DaBruinz]

You are very wrong my friend...and I have MRI's to prove it. AND...I know for a fact that a shoulder injury is no excuse for always being 2 yards too late. I trust BB's judgement.

Sure you do, Zuma. Sure you do. Just like the garbage that Starks was always 2 yards too late. Total made up garbage. Starks wasn't late on many plays, though he was on some. Just like Samuel, Hobbs, and Wilson. Even Harrison was late on plays early on.

However, If you are referring to the play in Denver where he got burned for having the underneath coverage and there was NO ONE over the top, then you need to reveiw the tape again because it was WILSON AND STONE who blew the coverage as ONE of them was supposed to stay in the middle and NEITHER of them did.

Starks was no saint, but a shoulder injury most certainly can hobble you to the point where you can't run properly. Particularly one as bad as Starks supposedly was.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm trying to figure out specifically who Willie is throwing under the bus other than Starks who frankly deserved it. He was bad. Just plain bad. I guess I missed the part where the Starks fan club sprouted up again.

What Willie seemed to be saying was that injuries and some personnel misses had a huge impact on this team last year and that the BB way of running a football team kept things from spiraling out of control.

Anyone care to argue injuries didn't impact 2005?

I re-read the article and Willie threw under the bus the following people:
Michael Stone, Monty Beisel, Duane Starks, Arturo Freeman, Guss Scott, James Sanders, Chad Brown, Chad Scott, and Jarvis Green at the very least, though he only named Starks by name.

You had other guys coming in that couldn't fill the shoes of some of those guys that had been there for years and (were) your core guys. . .
“You're missing Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Seymour and Rodney Harrison. It was kind of lonely on that defensive side of the ball

I don't believe that a true LEADER would publically throw his teammates under the bus like that. A ture leader would just say that the Patriots had injuries and a tough time coping with the injuries and leave it at that. Willie saying more than that is a classless thing to do and totally unprofessional, imho.

 

[jczxohn1]

Willie was just calling it like he saw it. IMO, he was spot on, on all counts.Probably wouldn't have made the observations if he was still a Pat. He doesn't owe us anything.

 

[Seymour93]

Starks was trash and he was also terrible. Everyone agreed on that except for NEM. I think he has a point when he says the system couldn't save garbage players like Starks, Michael Stone, and Chad Brown. Even the much praised BB/Pioli duo make mistakes, and relying on those players was one.

 

[Alk]

So I'm curious. How is this any different than when Manning called certain players out because of their loss? Is it just okay because it's Willie saying it? Screw him and the horse he rode away on. Maybe he and TO can chill once they're both retired.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I re-read the article and Willie threw under the bus the following people:
Michael Stone, Monty Beisel, Duane Starks, Arturo Freeman, Guss Scott, James Sanders, Chad Brown, Chad Scott, and Jarvis Green at the very least, though he only named Starks by name.


I don't believe that a true LEADER would publically throw his teammates under the bus like that. A ture leader would just say that the Patriots had injuries and a tough time coping with the injuries and leave it at that. Willie saying more than that is a classless thing to do and totally unprofessional, imho.

Those guys aren't Willie's teamates any more. His teamates are the Cleveland Browns.

Rodney said the same thing (though not as harshly) about Starks in his Patriots Monday interview the week Starks was IR'd. That he was a guy who showed some talent in Baltimore but seemed to hit the skids once he got to Arizona. He said BB brought him in not to replace Ty Law ("because he couldn't") but with the hope that a change of scene and being surrounded by no nonsense veterans like himself and all those on the Patriots D would allow him to revive the career he appeared capable of having in Baltmore. And that would have made him a sufficiently talented starting CB for this team. Didn't work. The loss of veteran leaders early likelydidn't help, but Rodney sensed it wasn't working out it in camp. Starks was a loner, wasn't willing to do the off season training program here and be around guys who wanted to help him. Rodney made it pretty clear it was not an injury that caused his struggles here. It was the kind of player he was and his attitude. Further debunking the he was just hurt theory was the fact that BB wouldn't have cut him and spent the off season trying to sign another FA CB if he though he could play when he was healthy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So I'm curious. How is this any different than when Manning called certain players out because of their loss? Is it just okay because it's Willie saying it? Screw him and the horse he rode away on. Maybe he and TO can chill once they're both retired.

It's pretty easy - it's different because Willie and Starks aren't teamates any more and Willie isn't any current Patriots teamate any more, let alone their gazillion dollar choke prone leader. And Willie was one of the guys the statmaster used to have nightmares about. Duh...

 

[Seymour93]

So I'm curious. How is this any different than when Manning called certain players out because of their loss? Is it just okay because it's Willie saying it? Screw him and the horse he rode away on. Maybe he and TO can chill once they're both retired.

The difference is Manning has been the beneficiary of that o-line for years, while Starks had no previous track record in NE.

 

[Zuma]

Sure you do, Zuma. Sure you do. Just like the garbage that Starks was always 2 yards too late. Total made up garbage. Starks wasn't late on many plays, though he was on some. Just like Samuel, Hobbs, and Wilson. Even Harrison was late on plays early on.

However, If you are referring to the play in Denver where he got burned for having the underneath coverage and there was NO ONE over the top, then you need to reveiw the tape again because it was WILSON AND STONE who blew the coverage as ONE of them was supposed to stay in the middle and NEITHER of them did.

Starks was no saint, but a shoulder injury most certainly can hobble you to the point where you can't run properly. Particularly one as bad as Starks supposedly was.

Huh? Tell me your not serious. My rotator cuff tear does not effect running in anyway. I'm not sure why that's confusing. It's in the shoulder. Not the legs. Their is constant pain...but running and cutting doesnt make it worse. Pushing or pulling hurts like a mutha though. Shouldnt have slowed down Starks either. It's not garbage...it's very real. Heck...it hurts to even pick up a beer...now that's a problem.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

I can take offense at a lot of things but when I feel a player is being frank and truthful - and not mean spirited - I have no problem with it.

Did you read the article? One one player says another player "played like trash" it is not being frank and truthful. It is mean-spirited.

There are a lot of frank and truthful ways to talk about why the patriots only went to the second round of playoffs. Singling out one player and throwing him under the bus is not one of them.

I'm surprised that Willie said this, and I wonder if it is likeSilver and his SI article in that Willie's interviewer took liberties with what Willie said in order to write a better story.

Even then, I have a hard time with Willie's comments about the system. He had some years where he didn't play well at all. You may recall he was one of the players we left unprotected during the Houston expansion draft.

I hope he is just being taken out of context and not becoming bitter and sniping like Milloy and Andruzzi.

 

[spacecrime]

Huh? Tell me your not serious. My rotator cuff tear does not effect running in anyway. I'm not sure why that's confusing. It's in the shoulder. Not the legs.

Your joking right? You don't use your rotator cuff in running? Try taping your upper arms to your chest to keep you rotator cuff immobile and then run around your block. Then tell me moving your arms has no effect on your running.

 

[spacecrime]

So I'm curious. How is this any different than when Manning called certain players out because of their loss?

Excellent question.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

I re-read the article and Willie threw under the bus the following people:
Michael Stone, Monty Beisel, Duane Starks, Arturo Freeman, Guss Scott, James Sanders, Chad Brown, Chad Scott, and Jarvis Green at the very least, though he only named Starks by name.


I don't believe that a true LEADER would publically throw his teammates under the bus like that. A ture leader would just say that the Patriots had injuries and a tough time coping with the injuries and leave it at that. Willie saying more than that is a classless thing to do and totally unprofessional, imho.

Exactly! You're reading into what he said and jumping to your own conclusions. And even if he did mention them specifically so what? Did I miss the part where Beisel, Starks, Freeman, Scott, Brown et al played excellent football last year?

Did I miss the part where injuries didn't impact the season?

Because a 10-6 year says otherwise. He was saying it could have been worse than 10-6 but it wasn't because of the system. And I concur. If it had been the Colts saddled with all those injuries and all that piss poor play they would have gone 4-12 or worse.

I love the rush to villainize departed players. He lived it. You watched it. He can say what he wants. I'm sure when/if Brady ever leaves people will rush to make him out to be a cretin too. Fortunately, it doesn't make it so.

Bully for Willie for telling it LIKE IT WAS. Sunshine pumpers are boring.

 

[spacecrime]

I love the rush to villainize departed players.

No one is rushing anything. People are saying it was classless of WMG to say what he did, that's all.

Bully for Willie for telling it LIKE IT WAS. Sunshine pumpers are boring.

There is a big difference between a sunshine pumper and saying a teammate played like trash.

If I had any respect for people who were so classless, and I don't, it wouldn't be someone who made nice when having to face the person everyday and only when he was safely away did he start badmouthing. That is classless and cowardly.

Sorry, truth is no excuse to be classless.

And just because something is true does not mean you should say it. No matter how large your girlfriend's butt is, keep your mouth shut. Do not tell your wife that her new haircut makes her look older, or that her new dress makes her look fatter. Do not tell a young kid in sports that he sucks and will never amount to anything, no matter how bad he sucks. Don't tell a handicapped person she will never be able to walk (or see or whatever) ever again like you will. It may be true, but horribly classless.

End of rant on truth as an excuse to be classless.

 

[Kdo5]

Exactly! You're reading into what he said and jumping to your own conclusions. And even if he did mention them specifically so what? Did I miss the part where Beisel, Starks, Freeman, Scott, Brown et al played excellent football last year?

Did I miss the part where injuries didn't impact the season?

Because a 10-6 year says otherwise. He was saying it could have been worse than 10-6 but it wasn't because of the system. And I concur. If it had been the Colts saddled with all those injuries and all that piss poor play they would have gone 4-12 or worse.

I love the rush to villainize departed players. He lived it. You watched it. He can say what he wants. I'm sure when/if Brady ever leaves people will rush to make him out to be a cretin too. Fortunately, it doesn't make it so.

Bully for Willie for telling it LIKE IT WAS. Sunshine pumpers are boring.

Are you joking? Yeah ok its ok to call out a group of players by name, blame them and throw them under the bus, what a classy leader huh?

 

[SoonerPatriot]

No one is rushing anything. People are saying it was classless of WMG to say what he did, that's all.

There is a big difference between a sunshine pumper and saying a teammate played like trash.

If I had any respect for people who were so classless, and I don't, it wouldn't be someone who made nice when having to face the person everyday and only when he was safely away did he start badmouthing. That is classless and cowardly.

Sorry, truth is no excuse to be classless.

And just because something is true does not mean you should say it. No matter how large your girlfriend's butt is, keep your mouth shut. Do not tell your wife that her new haircut makes her look older, or that her new dress makes her look fatter. Do not tell a young kid in sports that he sucks and will never amount to anything, no matter how bad he sucks. Don't tell a handicapped person she will never be able to walk (or see or whatever) ever again like you will. It may be true, but horribly classless.

End of rant on truth as an excuse to be classless.

Your analogies to old people, children, fat women, lepers, the deaf, the blind, paupers and every other misfortunate segement of humanity don't wash IMO.

Nobody is curing cancer here, we're talking about football. Willie probably wasn't the only person in the locker room talking about what a dog he was. Even still, I'm sure Duane can take it. He's a big boy.

I think at the end of the day we have a difference in opinion to what rises to the level of classless. I'm not saying you're wrong to have your opinion, I just don't see that from Willie.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Are you joking? Yeah ok its ok to call out a group of players by name, blame them and throw them under the bus, what a classy leader huh?

Willie signed with the Browns. He's no longer a "leader" in Foxborough. And incidentally, he called 1 player out by name. A "group" of players would imply more than one.

 

[TomBradyWoot]

RoughingThePasser, that last clip you posted was by far the most badass YouTube highlight package ever. That team brings a tear to my eye every time…70-1 preseason odds baby! Don’t ever forget it. Just wish they’d make that thing about 30 minutes longer…perhaps set to Orion followed by something a tad heavier like South of Heaven

It was so predictable. When 55 hit the road everyone in Boston was talking about a huge leadership void (which of course was absurd). I downplayed the hype and was accused of being a moron.

You may not think his opinion matters at this point, but what if Starks had returned from his injury (nightmare I know...actually if Willie felt that way, I guarantee you a lot of other guys did too...even if it WAS an injury issue no way Starks could've returned given the "trash" perception). But what if 'ol man Willie decides to make some comments about a guy who's still here?...don't think it can't happen. Then he becomes Joey Porter.

MoLewisRocks made a nice point about “contentment†that hasn’t really been played up as much as it maybe should.

Exactly one year ago, I emailed PFW my top-10 concerns for the ’05 season…#1 was “complacency†(#2 was injuries). The PFW crew read the email on the radio show (including Morry) and LAUGHED at the notion that the Pats could ever be complacent.

Perillo said he’d worry if it were any other team but not the Pats. This year the players and coaches are confirming that they lost some of what made them champions…their attention to detail…their motivation/edge. It’s not that you don’t want to win, but when you’ve been winning so consistently and busting your butt, you start wondering what corners you can cut. Complacency is a disease that affects everyone: players and coaches…you don’t notice it because the onset comes very slowly and it’s never obvious.

It’s a big reason why the Niners couldn’t 3-peat…Bill Walsh and the players have said as much. The Steelers and Cowboys had a chance to 3-peat with arguably the best teams they’d ever fielded…interview those players today and ask them if complacency wasn’t a seriously underrated factor in their demise…though with Pitt, injuries were huge too.

Moral: guess what: they’re human after all.

Good news: the leadership on the team is excellent. We’ve already heard from Sey this week…does he sound satisfied?...truth is great teams rebound after getting slapped in the face…look down through football lore and there are tons of examples…it’s why I’m so confident in the team mindset this season. They’re pissed and want revenge. We may all be focused on contracts and he/said she/said, but all they care about are three things:

• SB XLI
• Denver
• Indy

In that order.

This has to be the best post in this whole thread. Kudos.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Willie signed with the Browns. He's no longer a "leader" in Foxborough.

Which is why Brady's words regarding Marty Shottenheimer's comments last year keep ringing in my head.

"You don't talk about our team. He has no business talking about our team. We'll let our players talk about our team. The only thing we ever do is give respect to the other teams because that's what they deserve."

Willie should worry about his own team.