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McGinest: "Starks played like trash. He was terrible."

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Got that right, Willie. ;)

    Thanks for Reiss for linking to this story in his blog:

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/20060806-9999-1s6nflcol.html

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  2. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Not sure I like hearing McGinest say something like that. After all, it was a given that Starks played poorly and stunk up the joint, why the need to single him out?

    Or I guess a better question is, would Willie have said any of this if he were still a Patriot?
     
  3. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Message to McGinest...'Shutty'
     
  4. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    On the plus side, we'll have Bruschi, Seymour and Harrison back by the end of the year. All we're asking is for Colvin to step it up and for the DBs to play like a tight unit. If Wilson has indeed made the switch, then I really like our top 4 of Wilson, Hobbs, Samuel and CScott at DB. At safety, if Harrison comes back to his own self, with Hawkins, Sanders, and GScott, we'll be far better off than we were last year. We simply have to avoid injuries.

    Obviously, in the next FA period and draft, the Pats will have to focus on defense and WR. The DL and OL are built, and we also have solid TEs and backs.

    LBs and WRs will be crucial.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Whatever, McGinest. The Patriots probably win the Super Bowl last year except for the inexplicable poor play against Denver. It was an atypical performance, mostly unforced, with all the turnovers. So I don't want to hear the "The system was great, but it couldn't save us" stuff. Sure it couldn't save them from a loss after playing a horrendous game but it could save them from the personnel losses he's talking about. They just played a horrible playoff game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Also I love how they toss "Couple that with star wide receiver Deion Branch holding out for more money" in. How often do players actually stay out all season or until Week 10 ? Almost never.
     
  7. lapatsfan

    lapatsfan Practice Squad Player

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    I disagree with Willie on this one.

    Don't forget, the Pats made it into the second round of the playoffs with a patchwork defense. Therefore, I credit the system more than the players. Of course, adding more talented (and knowledgable) players only strengthens that system.
     
  8. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Willie played very well in that "system" in 1996, and then that "system" went to the Jets. Three years later, Willie and all the so called "core players" were begging for the "system" to come back!

    Not a classy thing for Willie to say, IMO. How quickly he's forgotten what it was like in 97, 98, and 99!

    Also, IMO, the refs took that Denver game away from us. If the game was officiated correctly, we would have won.

    Not classy at all.:mad:
     
  9. BelichickFan

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    McGinest is just preping for when "they system", run by Crenel this time, has him sitting at home when the playoffs begin and playing meaningless games in December.
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Duhhhhh mebbe what we really need to know here, is whether McGinest and Deion were tight.

    Yeah I can understand the urge to vent the frustrations upon departure. I could also see where you'd think, upon departure, that you've put up with an awful lot for an awful long time, just for some fancy jewelry with roman numerals on it.

    But if Willie was buddies with Deion? All I can say is follow the money.

    PFnV
     
  11. Keegs

    Keegs In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Obviously Willie and Starks didn't get along at all. If they had any kind of decent relationship or respected each other even a little, there is no way Willie would call him out like that.
     
  12. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    I don't take offense at Willie saying any of that. He's right. He's right that about our system needing a certain caliber of players and he's right about Starks.

    I can take offense at a lot of things but when I feel a player is being frank and truthful - and not mean spirited - I have no problem with it.

    I think we all know that if Willie were still on the Patriots he'd not be making any such comments to the media. Such public comments are not appropriate for players who are still on the team - does this surprise us?
     
  13. MoLewisrocks

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Willie lived it, we just watched it, so take it for context. Rodney pretty much confirmed for me the week be was benched that Starks shoulder wasn't the issue, it was his attitude (or lack thereof). That said, there will be a certain amount of sour grapes from any core guy who leaves, as there was when Milloy left. They all have egos and from time to time resent the credit that goes to "the system" aka Belichick even though they know all things being equal his putting them in a position to win is the difference maker here.

    But the fact remains, players play and coaches coach. We have part 2 of that equation nailed. Part 1 is fluid depending on who we lose and who we acquire and who can stay on the field. And we do need to start replacing some of the core as it departs because the core is what pulls you though the tough times. Lots of people had begun referring to Deion as a core player - not the case. A critical player at a crucial position, yes. Core, nope. He's flunked the core (compensation) portion of the BB conditioning test. Even Seymour failed it on the first try though he managed to re-group, re-take it and pass. His overall leadership value will remain slightly tainted as a result (see What I Taught Deion Branch To Do by Richard Seymour, 2005).

    Adam was a core leader (kicker or not) when for 6 years he took what was offered and delivered. Ditto Willie and Ted. So that's 3 gone both in core talent and core leadership. Troy cannot play forever. We need to start replacing these guys in all their roles - talent, work ethic, brains, savvy and leadership. We've also lost most of the less elitely talented but high in leadership vets BB brought in initially because those were guys BB personally identified in earlier stops who were well beyond prime already when they got here but still had that fire to win and the will to pull others perhaps more talented along with them.

    Hopefully some of the rookies playing out or through their deals will begin to emerge, but I haven't seen it at all yet - hear it talked about a lot (so and so has to step up), but talk is not walk. BB probably needs to make a trip or two to the hungry elite/veteran leadership well where he mines guys like Rodney and Rosie. Most often those qualities are forged of frustration and there hasn't been a lot of that here to develop or bring those qualities out in players we've drafted over the last 6 seasons. Winning tends instead to breed contentment which is when guys begin to focus (or as in Seymour's case day dream) on things other than winning - like padding their pre-retirement bank accounts or career stats. Which is why turnover is not always a bad thing. It's just that in our case it's the core that's been turning over (or getting decimated by injury) because it wasn't all that young when the system was installed.

    The bad news for other HC's and their fan bases is that the traits that made these guys leaders here don't export well. When they leave here they are either aging core guys checking out for someone else's financial gravy train or youngsters who just hitched a brief ride on the coat tails of others and have no real concept of how to forge themselves as core leaders because their success was a more matter of association with a team where that core already existed - for a time almost in excess.

    We are just lucky that the QB came out of college a leader forged in adversity with elite talent and an almost pathological distain for contentment. The Mike LB has a similar mentality. Vrabel got his forged courtesy of the Chin thinking little of him. Rosie playing for a downtrodden bad news Bears. Rodney wasting his hitman prime in beautiful Southern California. Willie and Adam and Ted and to an extent Lawyer and Ty got their hunger living through the Tuna tease followed by the Poodle flop on a team still desperate to finally shed the Patsy label.

    Home grown talent these days landed on an established championship gravy train. For most of them last season was their first taste of adversity. Some cried when it was over, but in some cases unfortunately those were apparently crocodile tears....
     
  14. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Mo, I don't know how you do it, but your posts always seem to hit the nail on the head. You da man...:rocker:
     
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Personally, I find it rather hypocritical of McGinest to be throwing other people under the bus when he was non-existant for much of the time before Seymour and Bruschi returned. If he was so great, he would have been performing at his high level. How many QB pressures did he get early in the year? I can't remember him getting much if any. I remember the sacks against Big Ben. But I also remember Willie disappearing.

    The fact that Willie is throwing people under the bus now is, honestly, pathetic and it degrades the memory I have of McGinest being a class act.
     
  16. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Re: McGinest: "Starks was trash. He was terrible."

    Nice bit of reasoning, MoLewisRocks. I had to read it twice to get all of the nuances in your thought process. That bit about our recent homegrown players and complacency - I think a recent Brady quote about 'not being mentally tough enough' and a new mood in TC - might be a result of that. While Parcells might be a good motivator of individuals (pushing the right buttons), I feel BB is a great group motivator and knows the vital importance of healthy group dynamics. Still how it translates on the field is another matter entirely. Warrior leaders are often born in the 'heat of battle' by heroic acts and it seems the team for too long has depended on the core group (Harrison, Bruschi, Brady, Vinitari, T. Brown, McGinist) to make the critical play at the crucial moment. It REALLY is time for a few of the youngins to make the leap from steady player to 'crunch time savior'. I'm look'in at YOU: E. Wilson, Samuel, Colvin, a new kicker, etc.
     
  17. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    Real classy of Willie to throw teammates under the bus. Sure, Starks was pretty bad, but you just don't do that *****.
     
  18. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I dont really care if this was directed to Starks but now I am feeling disgusted in Willie. The article seemed negative to the Pats. I understand...Duante Starks played very badly last year but it certainly seemed like an insult towards him. Is this the real guy Willie McGinnest is? A jerk? What a dick!

    Just read the thing again and the Starks part, its just an absolutely disgracefull comment. Usually if you are going to blame someone, blame the team as a whole not one player and call him trash.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  19. Zuma

    Zuma Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Starks was a disgrace to the uniform. And I never understood why people say it was the injured shoulder that prevented him from covering a WR. My only wish was that Willie literally throw him under the bus.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  20. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I can't believe some people actually have the nerve to defend Starks over McGinest. Starks was pathetic (whether he was injured or not). Although you can't but the blame entirely on him, early in the season the Pats Defense couldn't stop a high school offense on 3rd downs. Big play after big play, if anybody has that short term of a memory check out games such as Oakland, Denver, Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego and Atlanta. The defense was hurrendous!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005

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