McDaniels learned from the best, and he is right

[VJCPatriot]

Let's see how the Bears do with Cutler then to see if your prediction comes true Andy.

If Cutler is this decade's Marino, then that's pretty scary. I hope he's not half as good. At least he is in the NFC now. Was Marino ever as whiny a ***** as Cutler though? Just wondering, I don't seem to remember that being the case.

 

[Wretch]

Let's see how the Bears do with Cutler then to see if your prediction comes true Andy.

If Cutler is this decade's Marino, then that's pretty scary. I hope he's not half as good. At least he is in the NFC now. Was Marino ever as whiny a ***** as Cutler though? Just wondering, I don't seem to remember that being the case.

He isn't this generation's Marino he is this generation's Jeff George

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

You left out the part where he couldn't make up his mind until after it was too late to get Cassel. If he could have made up his mind a week earlier he probably has Cassel at QB now instead of Chris Simms.

But he wouldn't have had two firsts and a third...remember, Tampa and Detroit were supposedly offering him a lower first and Cassel for Cutler, period. Not to mention you left out the part where BB wasn't willing to wait and see if the two teams who rebuffed him on Cassel 48 hours earlier really had a deal to offer better than the one he already had an agreement with Pioli on before Josh ever got approached...He missed out on Matt but he netted another third this year in a deep draft and a first next year which will probably be in the teens...

I think absent Cassel Quinn might have helped him more in the short run, if two lost seasons in Cleveland haven't ruined him entirely. But Orton is a game manager and back when he had a defense Shanny used to routinely get to the playoffs and win his division with freakin' Jake the Snake on a short leash and a running game. Once they switched to Cutler it was as if Shanny lost all his mojo...Four mid round firsts in the next two drafts could go a long way towards rebuilding that defense and reviving that running game...

The best part of this is Cutler didn't have any say in where he went... He thought for sure he was headed to Dan Snyder's bank vault. Try and hold Da Bears up for an extension now and he really becomes the poster boy for whiny greedy phony...

 

[apple strudel]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

It'll be even funnier when the Redskins trade for him.

Doh. But maybe it's funnier what the Bears gave up for him.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...
Cutler = this decade's Marino.

This guy hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dan Marino. It's a lot more likely that he'll end up like McNabb; a very good QB who, in the end, didn't get the job done...but, come to think of it, Cutler has a long way to go before I'd compare him to Donovan either.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

You left out the part where he couldn't make up his mind until after it was too late to get Cassel. If he could have made up his mind a week earlier he probably has Cassel at QB now instead of Chris Simms.

So I guess we can effectively let the record show that Belichick was not at fault for moving too quickly to accept Pioli's trade offer rather than taking the time to consider other offers from teams like Denver...

Instead, McDaniels was lazy, with Belichick waiting and waiting for him to make an offer that when it came, came too late

I understand now.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

So I guess we can effectively let the record show that Belichick was not at fault for moving too quickly to accept Pioli's trade offer rather than taking the time to consider other offers from teams like Denver...

Instead, McDaniels was lazy, with Belichick waiting and waiting for him to make an offer that when it came, came too late

I understand now.

Yeah, BB is getting a little too much love in the review of these trades - all BB needed to do was fly to D.C. and let himself be seen bolting through the airport and BINGO!, Cassel's trade value would have doubled in the eyes of the rest of the teams interested in him since they would have feared Snyder making some wacky offer. I am certain that Snyder's involvement, real or imagined, was integral in Denver reaping its absurd bounty from the Bears (who will win the NFC North next year). Regardless, BB was a bit quick on the draw, IMHO.

Still, the Cassel trade was a salary dump more than anything. If you look at it that way then BB did OK snagging #34 overall though I give no credence to those suggesting BB didn't want a higher pick because they would have cost more to sign.

If Cutler had a $14.85mil cap hit on a one year deal there's no chance the Donks get the same haul from the Bears, none.

As for the premise of this thread - ah, I don't know. If McDannyboy had really learned from BB, he'd never have let all this muck surface before making his move. This was very much a learning on the job experience for McDannyBoy as I see it, though the unreal trade haul has to help ease his pain.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

As for the premise of this thread - ah, I don't know. If McDannyboy had really learned from BB, he'd never have let all this muck surface before making his move.

Oh BULL-oney. There was plenty of controversy around not playing Terry Glenn, a ton mor around cutting Lawyer Millory and McDaniel's Cutler muck is nothing compared to BB's signal-taping muck.

You cannot control what muck gets yakked by dweebs and mediots. What BB did (and McDaniels) is do what they thought was right regardless of what ignorant panelists on ATH or fans on websites think. THey both do what they think is the right thing, and if the entire world thinks they screwed up by taping signals or talking about trading a player, they don't give a crap what others think.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

I think Denver is in good shape to do something THIS year. No - not saying they have what it takes to win the Super Bowl, but if teams like Arizona, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Tennessee, et al were able to make alot of noise with some of the *deficiencies* they had, then I can see Denver, who'll potentially have more after draft day, do some damage this year.

Also - they signed Brian Dawkins and Correll Buckhalter in FA. The former may be a year older and has declining coverage skills, but he'll nonetheless be a HUGE upgrade to that sidelines AND locker room...the guy really knows how toe fire up his team, which is why he could be sorely missed in Philly. The latter was a hugely underrated player for Philly. Whenever Westbrook got hurt, or just needed a breather, he would come in and fill in very nicely - his leadership will be sorely missed as well in Philly.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

I think Josh blew it to begin with (letting it be known that he wanted Cassel without having a backup plan) then unsuccessfully scrambled to repair the damage his leak caused.

I think Cutler blew it by not being man enough to accept that his new HC might want someone better than him at the QB position.

BB wouldn't have handled things the same way.

Except that isn't what happened. The Bucs approached the Broncos with the idea of a 3 way trade so that they could get Cutler with the Broncos getting Cassel. They never openly attempted to trade Cutler.

Cutler is the one who came out claiming that the Broncos were trying to trade him when they weren't. And, as was mentioned before, Cutler wasn't happy with Shanahan being let go.

In all honesty, this all falls on Cutler's immaturity. He felt that he was a franchise QB and that HE could influence the direction of the team. What Cutler doesn't understand is that he's not Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. He's not even John Elway. Yet, Cutler would have you believe that he was the reason that the Broncos won ANY games..

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Except that isn't what happened. The Bucs approached the Broncos with the idea of a 3 way trade so that they could get Cutler with the Broncos getting Cassel. They never openly attempted to trade Cutler.

Cutler is the one who came out claiming that the Broncos were trying to trade him when they weren't. And, as was mentioned before, Cutler wasn't happy with Shanahan being let go.

In all honesty, this all falls on Cutler's immaturity. He felt that he was a franchise QB and that HE could influence the direction of the team. What Cutler doesn't understand is that he's not Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. He's not even John Elway. Yet, Cutler would have you believe that he was the reason that the Broncos won ANY games..

FYI - once upon a time ago, Mike Shanahan expressed interest in Tony Romo when he hit the UDFA market...like with Sean Payton(who was Dallas' OC at the time), Shanahan also has Eastern Illinois ties.

Just curious - assuming Shanahan signed Romo, but still performed the same(record wise, that is) up to now, got fired, and McDaniels stepped in...do you think McDaniels would have wanted to trade Romo? Or do you think he would have found a way to for Romo to buy into his system?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

In 2001? Fans were excited to get him as a head coach because he did have a track record (he did get the Browns back to the playoffs before Modell pulled the rug out from under him, and after he dumped Bernie as QB, meaning he knew when to boot players). A track record need not be as head coach either. Belichick had served as coordinator on Super Bowl winners, had worked as coordinator with the Pats when they went to the show in '96, and he had the respect of the players he coached from his previous years with the Pats.

McDaniels looks like a kid, has no head coaching experience, served for a relatively short period of time as coordinator with Tom Brady as quarterback (meaning players may be inclined to thank Brady and not him) and has nowhere near the time or experience of Belichick as a coach when he took over the Pats. I'm thinking they are not facing the same hurdles as far as credibility with players.

What experience did Belichick have when he took over the Browns? 6 seasons as an special teams coach. Then 6 as an OC. What happened during his tenure with the Browns? Yes. That's right. Belichick went with Vinny Testaverde over the much beloved Bernie Kosar.

How many seasons was McDaniels with the Patriots? 7 seasons. 4 as a QB coach and 3 as a coordinator. Yet, Belichick gave him his blessing to move on. Something BB didn't do with his "prodigy" Eric Mangini. Think about that.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

What experience did Belichick have when he took over the Browns? 6 seasons as an special teams coach. Then 6 as an OC. What happened during his tenure with the Browns? Yes. That's right. Belichick went with Vinny Testaverde over the much beloved Bernie Kosar.

How many seasons was McDaniels with the Patriots? 7 seasons. 4 as a QB coach and 3 as a coordinator. Yet, Belichick gave him his blessing to move on. Something BB didn't do with his "prodigy" Eric Mangini. Think about that.

Oddly - Kosar went on to becoming nothing more than a backup the remainder of his career. He was picked up by Dallas nearly late in the '93 season - obviously, it wasn't like anyone was on his radar. And he went to Miami to backup Marino after that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

FYI - once upon a time ago, Mike Shanahan expressed interest in Tony Romo when he hit the UDFA market...like with Sean Payton(who was Dallas' OC at the time), Shanahan also has Eastern Illinois ties.

Just curious - assuming Shanahan signed Romo, but still performed the same(record wise, that is) up to now, got fired, and McDaniels stepped in...do you think McDaniels would have wanted to trade Romo? Or do you think he would have found a way to for Romo to buy into his system?

FYI - The Broncos going after Romo has nothing to do with this situation because it was done by an entirely different coaching staff. So who cares.

This thread is talking about Cutler, his immaturity, and the way McDaniels handled the situation. What he might or might not have done with Romo doesn't matter. Because its a situation that never came close to fruition.

 

[DarrylS]

No one player is bigger than the team... McDaniels proved he is not like many other coaches on this issue...

 

[dhamz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

So I guess we can effectively let the record show that Belichick was not at fault for moving too quickly to accept Pioli's trade offer rather than taking the time to consider other offers from teams like Denver...

Instead, McDaniels was lazy, with Belichick waiting and waiting for him to make an offer that when it came, came too late

I understand now.

This has been gone over extensively. The Pats shopped Cassel to many teams including Denver in the weeks before the start of the 2009 league year. There was interest from KC and none from anyone else so the Pats who had no cap space made the only deal on the table. Then once the trade news broke suddenly Denver was on the phone with an offer. If that wasn't Denver being indecisive I don't know what it is.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

This has been gone over extensively. The Pats shopped Cassel to many teams including Denver in the weeks before the start of the 2009 league year. There was interest from KC and none from anyone else so the Pats who had no cap space made the only deal on the table. Then once the trade news broke suddenly Denver was on the phone with an offer. If that wasn't Denver being indecisive I don't know what it is.

Apparently not extensively enough...They never shopped him to Denver.

They shopped him to Tampa and Detroit and probably a handful of other teams not named the JETS who did not have an established starter or stability at the position. And the shopping was done per BB after Cassel officially signed his tag which was the Sunday of the Combine - or less than 5 days before Vrabel arrived in KC for his physical as part of the Cassel deal... Denver was never on the phone with BB, that was Tampa and Detroit, and they were never calling with firm offers, just what ifs contingent on the potential of acquiring one player they didn't control for a shot at landing another they didn't control...which is why BB basically ignored them and completed the done deal he had on the table.

 

[PittPatriot]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

I agree - I still think that Josh's view on Cutler comes from Bill and the preperation from the game last year. I think Bill thought he could be exposed and they went about haning 40 on 'em............without Tom Brady............on a Monday night.

Didn't Cutler jam his thumb in the 1st quarter of that game - affecting his throwing ability. I think his poor performance can be partially blamed for that...not that he is Peyton Manning (AFCCG 2006 when he played out the game completed disgusting wobbly passes to make that gut-wretching comeback).
I don't know if Jay Cutler had much to do with the Pats putting up 40 as much as a league-terrible Denver secondary.

 

[willdeespats]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

For a nice take on Cutler being overrated see:

Broncos won't lose much if they trade Cutler | FanNation


- "McDaniels may be young, but he’s been around a fantastic quarterback his whole career and knows what it takes to succeed at that position. If he wasn’t sold on Cutler, that should make other teams around the NFL nervous. For all the highlight-worthy passes Cutler made, McDaniels had to wince at the mental mistakes and forced throws that burned the Broncos last season. It’s probably not an accident that the teams reportedly interested in Cutler all have iffy track records when it comes to evaluating the position -- take, for example, the Bucs, 49ers, Jets, Lions and Redskins. Big arms or big stats have fooled all of those teams in the recent past. Now, as they try to put together the right offer to land Cutler, they’re lining up to make the same mistake again."

Nice work. This quote really hits the nail on the head. The Bears(Grossman, etc.) certainly belong at the top of the examples list. My take on this whole situation is that McD knew when he took the job that he had to "deal" with Cutler and his "me-first" attitude if he was going to be successful in installing the Patriot "team-first" approach to playing the game. He also knew that he had to have a QB who is a team leader that is looked up to and respected by the rest of the team. I'm not sure if McD knew how this all would play out but once Cutler's ego publicly announced he wanted to be traded, then the conclusion became evident with the ultimate trade to the Bears.

Will D

 

[Rob0729]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Didn't Cutler jam his thumb in the 1st quarter of that game - affecting his throwing ability. I think his poor performance can be partially blamed for that...not that he is Peyton Manning (AFCCG 2006 when he played out the game completed disgusting wobbly passes to make that gut-wretching comeback).
I don't know if Jay Cutler had much to do with the Pats putting up 40 as much as a league-terrible Denver secondary.

He injured his finger in the second quarter and wasn't playing spectacular until then. He was 6 for 11 for 62 yards, no TDs, and an INT up until he was injured. Granted he was injured on the INT.