McDaniels learned from the best, and he is right

[dhamz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Cutler is a talented immature crybaby who thinks he should be treated as a franchise QB despite not coming close to proving to be one.

With that said, I guess I'm not seeing anything in this episode that shows McDaniels acting like BB unless you are solely talking about not committing a big $ extension to a QB like that. His actions are about as far opposite BB as it gets in other ways.

The Broncos completely botched their attempt to trade for Cassel. They had weeks to try to trade for him and not only waited until the last minute, they waited until after the last minute. This isn't 100% on Josh as he isn't the GM but he clearly had major input on this. You think that would have happenned on BB's watch? Not a chance.

When Ty Law got angry at the Pats and tried to shoot his way out of town, BB did nothing similar to what Josh has done here. Ty called him a liar on national TV. BB said nothing, sat back, and Ty showed up and played. Cutler called Josh a liar and Josh has publicly responded so many times in so many different ways it is confusing. He publicly states he wants meetings with Cutler, wants his calls returned, only listened to offers, can't envision trading him, wll never say never, etc. BB never makes disputes with players public or personal. Pick any dispute contractual or otherwise BB has had with a player (Milloy, Law, Branch, Seymour, Samuels, Glenn, etc.) and try to find where BB handled them in the soap opera manner that Josh has done with the Cutler dispute.

If BB or a BB clone were the coach of Denver - Cassel would be the QB, Cutler would be in Detroit or Tampa and the only public comments from BB would be thanking Cutler for his service and saying how much he looks forward to being reunited with Cassel on the field. If somehow the trade didn't get done, all you'd have heard was Cutler whining followed by silence from the organization. He'd have either been traded quietly at a later point or the story would have died by training camp.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

For a nice take on Cutler being overrated see:

Broncos won't lose much if they trade Cutler | FanNation

Some nice quotes:

- "Cutler earned a Pro Bowl berth in 2008 based on his 4,526 passing yards. But in more important metrics, namely wins (8-8) and TD-to-INT differential (25-to-18), Cutler came up short. Many of Cutler’s biggest yardage games ended up in the loss column -- the Broncos were 3-4 when he threw for more than 300 yards. Denver’s turnstile defense upped the tempo of the game and gave Cutler plenty of opportunities to gain yards in between the 20s, even if those yards didn’t do much to help the Broncos win."

- "Cutler also benefited from a defensively challenged schedule last season. Thanks in large part to his porous AFC West competition, Cutler faced defenses that ranked in the NFL’s bottom 10 in a majority of his games. The highest-ranked defense he faced all year was No. 9 Tampa Bay. Cutler may think twice about wanting to leave Denver when he looks at the schedules of the teams interested in him."

- "McDaniels may be young, but he’s been around a fantastic quarterback his whole career and knows what it takes to succeed at that position. If he wasn’t sold on Cutler, that should make other teams around the NFL nervous. For all the highlight-worthy passes Cutler made, McDaniels had to wince at the mental mistakes and forced throws that burned the Broncos last season. It’s probably not an accident that the teams reportedly interested in Cutler all have iffy track records when it comes to evaluating the position -- take, for example, the Bucs, 49ers, Jets, Lions and Redskins. Big arms or big stats have fooled all of those teams in the recent past. Now, as they try to put together the right offer to land Cutler, they’re lining up to make the same mistake again."

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

I think Josh blew it to begin with (letting it be known that he wanted Cassel without having a backup plan) then unsuccessfully scrambled to repair the damage his leak caused.

I think Cutler blew it by not being man enough to accept that his new HC might want someone better than him at the QB position.

BB wouldn't have handled things the same way.

 

[QB12]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Well said. Josh seems to wear his emotions on his sleeve . . . remember his 'discussion' with BB as they're running to the locker room at the end of the first half in SD last year?

QB12

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

IMO Cutler is going to the Lions in exchange for Detroit's #1 - This of course all depends on if Detroit is intent on drafting Stafford for the reason being they would value a QB as thier first pick instead of Curry.

I think McDaniel's then takes Stafford to develop in his system,McDaniels would be a very good coach to what appears to be an up and coming bright prospect at QB while Detroit would have a seasoned starter who knows how to score points with good receivers,If Cutler can put up points and passing yardage with guys like Royal and Marshall,imagine what he can do with a guy like Johnson and those other solid receivers in Detroit.

Now back to the original point of this thread

 

[Funktopus]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

I have not followed this story closely though everything I hear makes Cutler sound like a baby. One thing I also heard was that Josh lied about something, but I haven't heard the specifics behind the alledged lie. Can any of you shed some light on this?

 

[MassPats38]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Neither did BB have a track record of success when he cut Greg Spires, let Chad Eaton go, and cast aside Terry Glenn.

In 2001? Fans were excited to get him as a head coach because he did have a track record (he did get the Browns back to the playoffs before Modell pulled the rug out from under him, and after he dumped Bernie as QB, meaning he knew when to boot players). A track record need not be as head coach either. Belichick had served as coordinator on Super Bowl winners, had worked as coordinator with the Pats when they went to the show in '96, and he had the respect of the players he coached from his previous years with the Pats.

McDaniels looks like a kid, has no head coaching experience, served for a relatively short period of time as coordinator with Tom Brady as quarterback (meaning players may be inclined to thank Brady and not him) and has nowhere near the time or experience of Belichick as a coach when he took over the Pats. I'm thinking they are not facing the same hurdles as far as credibility with players.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

For a nice take on Cutler being overrated see:

Broncos won't lose much if they trade Cutler | FanNation

Some nice quotes:

- "Cutler earned a Pro Bowl berth in 2008 based on his 4,526 passing yards. But in more important metrics, namely wins (8-8) and TD-to-INT differential (25-to-18), Cutler came up short. Many of Cutler’s biggest yardage games ended up in the loss column -- the Broncos were 3-4 when he threw for more than 300 yards. Denver’s turnstile defense upped the tempo of the game and gave Cutler plenty of opportunities to gain yards in between the 20s, even if those yards didn’t do much to help the Broncos win."

- "Cutler also benefited from a defensively challenged schedule last season. Thanks in large part to his porous AFC West competition, Cutler faced defenses that ranked in the NFL’s bottom 10 in a majority of his games. The highest-ranked defense he faced all year was No. 9 Tampa Bay. Cutler may think twice about wanting to leave Denver when he looks at the schedules of the teams interested in him."

- "McDaniels may be young, but he’s been around a fantastic quarterback his whole career and knows what it takes to succeed at that position. If he wasn’t sold on Cutler, that should make other teams around the NFL nervous. For all the highlight-worthy passes Cutler made, McDaniels had to wince at the mental mistakes and forced throws that burned the Broncos last season. It’s probably not an accident that the teams reportedly interested in Cutler all have iffy track records when it comes to evaluating the position -- take, for example, the Bucs, 49ers, Jets, Lions and Redskins. Big arms or big stats have fooled all of those teams in the recent past. Now, as they try to put together the right offer to land Cutler, they’re lining up to make the same mistake again."

I think one of the most damning thing about Cutler was the Broncos were second in offensive yards and only 16th in points scored. That tells me that the Broncos were playing catch up a lot that padded the yardage #s and had problems finishing drives which a large part of it falls on Cutler's shoulders.

I don't know how many times over the last few weeks I have heard people in the media call McDaniels crazy for dumping Cutler because the Broncos had the second best offense in the league. It is only the "second best offense" because the NFL only uses yards to rank offenses when scoring is a far more important statistic and the Broncos were middle of the pack in that category.

Personally, I don't care if a QB is throwing for over 4500 yards if he isn't getting the ball into the endzone.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

In 2001? Fans were excited to get him as a head coach because he did have a track record (he did get the Browns back to the playoffs before Modell pulled the rug out from under him, and after he dumped Bernie as QB, meaning he knew when to boot players). A track record need not be as head coach either. Belichick had served as coordinator on Super Bowl winners, had worked as coordinator with the Pats when they went to the show in '96, and he had the respect of the players he coached from his previous years with the Pats.

McDaniels looks like a kid, has no head coaching experience, served for a relatively short period of time as coordinator with Tom Brady as quarterback (meaning players may be inclined to thank Brady and not him) and has nowhere near the time or experience of Belichick as a coach when he took over the Pats. I'm thinking they are not facing the same hurdles as far as credibility with players.

1.) Belichick came here in 2000.
2.) The reaction by the fans and media for getting him was decidingly mixed (remember Kevin Mannix's "duplicitous pond scum" comment) especially on how he came here and what the Pats gave up.
3.) By summer of 2001, people were wondering if Belichick was going to be fired after the season was over. He came off a 5-11 season, refused to resign one of his best defensive players, he "blew" the sixth pick in the draft by drafting Seymour (who isn't very good at anything according to Borges that year) rather than a superior player like David Terrell or Koren Robinson, signed a bunch of washed up veterans, and just suspended Terry Glenn (arguably the best player on the team at that point). People wanted Belichick fired at that point.
4.) Every week on Sports Final, it was a battle royal between Borges/Cafardo (who basically argued that Belichick was an incompetent arse) and Michael Felger (who was a Patriots' rump swab at that point). At least earlier in the season, there were a lot of people siding with Borges and Cafardo.
5.) Belichick's track record in Cleveland hurt him early here. The general perception at the time was that Belichick was a complete failure in Cleveland and that he might be repeating history in New England. It was even more exaggerated because of the way he left NY.

People have revisionist history. Belichick did not have an easy time of it with the media and the fans early in his career here. There were a lot of moves that Belichick did that were heavily scrutinized. Much like McDaniels is being scrutinized.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

In 2001? Fans were excited to get him as a head coach because he did have a track record (he did get the Browns back to the playoffs before Modell pulled the rug out from under him, and after he dumped Bernie as QB, meaning he knew when to boot players). A track record need not be as head coach either. Belichick had served as coordinator on Super Bowl winners, had worked as coordinator with the Pats when they went to the show in '96, and he had the respect of the players he coached from his previous years with the Pats.

McDaniels looks like a kid, has no head coaching experience, served for a relatively short period of time as coordinator with Tom Brady as quarterback (meaning players may be inclined to thank Brady and not him) and has nowhere near the time or experience of Belichick as a coach when he took over the Pats. I'm thinking they are not facing the same hurdles as far as credibility with players.

When BB first came here many fans were excited, but many others were not because of the perception of failure as a HC in Cleveland. The Boston sports press villified him, calling him "duplicitous pond scum" for one. BB went a pathetic 5-11 in 2000. There was widespread talk in the press 2001 pre-season that if BB did not have a strong winning season, Kraft would pull the plug on the guy. Uh oh, Belichick then started 0-2 in 2001 with Bledsoe at the helm. The press had a hissey fit as did many Pats fans when BB decided to keep Brady as the starter once His Drewness demed himself ready to return to the helm.

EDIT: Whoa! Rob0729 beat me to it

 

[Absurdly Metro]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Neither did BB have a track record of success when he cut Greg Spires, let Chad Eaton go, and cast aside Terry Glenn.

Nor did he have the track record for success when the favored son and #1 pick Drew Bledsoe called him a liar in the press. IMO these kind of situations reveal what the coach truly believes about the player. BB most likely saw Drew as having fatal flaws in his attitude, his approach, and his game and even though Brady was still raw and unproven, he had already displayed the character, work ethic, and leadership to win the teams confidence and win games with essentially the same team Drew had posted a 5-13 record with as the starter.

I think it is likely that McDaniels sees Cutler in much the same way that BB saw Bledsoe. To me, it is the best explanation for why he would want Cassel over a highly touted prodigy like Cutler.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

1.) Belichick came here in 2000.
2.) The reaction by the fans and media for getting him was decidingly mixed (remember Kevin Mannix's "duplicitous pond scum" comment) especially on how he came here and what the Pats gave up.
3.) By summer of 2001, people were wondering if Belichick was going to be fired after the season was over. He came off a 5-11 season, refused to resign one of his best defensive players, he "blew" the sixth pick in the draft by drafting Seymour (who isn't very good at anything according to Borges that year) rather than a superior player like David Terrell or Koren Robinson, signed a bunch of washed up veterans, and just suspended Terry Glenn (arguably the best player on the team at that point). People wanted Belichick fired at that point.
4.) Every week on Sports Final, it was a battle royal between Borges/Cafardo (who basically argued that Belichick was an incompetent arse) and Michael Felger (who was a Patriots' rump swab at that point). At least earlier in the season, there were a lot of people siding with Borges and Cafardo.
5.) Belichick's track record in Cleveland hurt him early here. The general perception at the time was that Belichick was a complete failure in Cleveland and that he might be repeating history in New England. It was even more exaggerated because of the way he left NY.

People have revisionist history. Belichick did not have an easy time of it with the media and the fans early in his career here. There were a lot of moves that Belichick did that were heavily scrutinized. Much like McDaniels is being scrutinized.

Spacecrime suggested Belichick and Pioli were similarly situated on arriving as head coach, then cited cuts made by Belichick prior to his second year. I think we can all agree that 1st and 2nd is not the same ordinal. The 2001 reference wasn't meant as Belichick's start date, but rather 2001 was when those players got the boot. Nor did I say squat about his early years but rather his first year when he arrived at the team. If I said he enjoyed a "love fest" during his early tenure, feel free to remind me from my post. I am well aware of when Belichick started as head coach. Spacecrime had referred to players that were here in 2000 when Belichick arrived and left after the 2000 season. That fact is not revisionist. The article discussing those transactions is available at the link with a date at the top. I would also suggest you read the exchange to which I was responding before lamenting my response as revisionist history.

If you are referring to the Boston media after a year here, that does not reflect the players or fans views and typically still does not. My understanding was the Bledsoe issue turned Borges and the Boston media against Belichick. Wasn't there at those meetings, don't know, and frankly I never thought highly of the old guard in the Boston media so don't care. But feel free to peruse the stories and player quotes the year he arrived (not stories after the 5-11 season with the Pats), which is entirely consistent with my response to spacecrime.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Josh probably wishes that he could take a Mulligan on how this all got communicated to Cutler but not on the substance, which is that he didn't see him as a QB of the future.

Cutler has made himself radioactive now for any smart coach who doesn't want to be the target of Cutler's next temper tantrum. I think this will limit his marketability to teams who will be willing to take a chance on a head case like this either because of a long history of problems/failure (Jests and Lions) or because they are just plain dumb about how they spend money (like the Redskins).

For the Patriots, "it's all good," because one Conference Competitor (Broncos) is in turmoil and because whereever The Cutler ends up will be just another team with QB "issues" for the next five years.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

First, what does this have to do with Herman Edwards? Second, you should know his name is McDaniels, not McDaniel. Third, McDaniels really f***** up the situation when he failed to trade for Cassel. However, Cutler should have been a man and got over it. I guarantee Cutler has lost a lot of respect from his teammates because of how he is acting like a child. With that said, this is a make or break situation for McDaniels. If the Broncos trade Cutler, find a replacement and win, everything is good. If they don't, McDaniels is gone in two or three years.

*On a side note, what team would want to trade for such a baby like Cutler? Can't they realize that this guy is a b****!

 

[Dr Pain]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

I was watching a show on the 2001 Patriots last night and I think the gutsiest thing Belichick did was to stick with Brady when almost everyone was calling for the “franchise” Bledsoe. On top of that as opposed to Cultler, Bledsoe was nothing but class and a gentleman in a far more difficult situation. It was great seeing the news reports from back then.

I don’t think anyone would follow Cutler.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Maybe McDaniels didn't handle this as well as he could of, but I still have a tough time blaming him for anything.

Is he guilty of recognizing that the Broncos would be better of with a QB who understands and can implement "his" system? Yup. Guilty.

Are we supposed to criticize Josh for trying to arrange a trade for that QB? I don't think so... especially when one considers that he would have (and may still) strengthen the team with a new QB better suited to his system, while getting significant value for Cutler

Add to that the fact that he's gotten rid of Cutler the crybaby and not shown weakness in a difficult situation (aside from giving into what we assumed was Cutler's trade demand) and not only shouldn't we criticize him, he deserves a lot of credit.

 

[rabthepat]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Josh is a Fool with a capital "F". Great move, alienate the starting QB without a plan B in place. Genius, shear Genius...

 

[dhamz]

Re: McDaniel learned from the best, and he is right

Are we supposed to criticize Josh for trying to arrange a trade for that QB? I don't think so... especially when one considers that he would have (and may still) strengthen the team with a new QB better suited to his system, while getting significant value for Cutler

You left out the part where he couldn't make up his mind until after it was too late to get Cassel. If he could have made up his mind a week earlier he probably has Cassel at QB now instead of Chris Simms.

 

[jefmblrd]

Good for McDaniels. He was stuck in a difficult position and had to get rid of Cutler ASAP if he was going to take control of that team. Cutler is an immature jerk, who would have been a poison on that team. I'm happy he's gone from Denver. Although it'll be difficult, McDaniels can work to get his own guy in there.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Herman Edwards would be flying to wherever Cutler is, begging to see him and apologizing to him. All would be wonderful, and Cutler would go on to a thoroughly disappointing career in Denver with nice numbers, some accoladates, no rings and a rep as one of those 'great QBs who never won the big one'
Josh McDaniel is doing what he was trained to do.
One of the most memorable quotes I have ever heard from BB was in a SB pregame interview with Jimmy Johnson. Paraphrasing, he said, we want guys to improve. some guys say i am what i am love me or get rid of me, and we think they need to leave.

McDaniel clearly feels Cutler is not Tom Brady 2.0. McDaniel, unable to get Cassel, views a big part of his job as coaching up Cutler. He sees Cutler IMO as a guy who amassed #s while losing, which is far from the BB trained criteria he believes in. This is much like Bledsoe when BB arrived.
So now you take over the team (a big chunk of this is educated guessing) see the opportunity to upgrade your QB.
Part of the reason you want to upgrade is above the shoulders, including an ego and poor judgment about what he says publicly (better arm than Elway the stupid spatting with Rivers in the press, etc) so when word comes out that you were looking at a trade, he basiclly says
1) I am offended about that
2) Who are you to trade me? I am the franchise
3) If you don't think I'm the greatest trade me, but if you keep me you better promise me I will never be traded.
To which Josh McD said
1) Get over it, and figure out how to be a better QB
2) I run the show here. You need to prove yourself to me and your losing record and immature behavior isnt helping. I think I can make you a winner, but you need to get on board and do what I, your boss, tells you.
3) Everyone is subject to being traded, and if you don't improve and i dont think I can win with you, it will happen.


In essence, Cutler in his immaturity, decided the first thing to do was challenge the authority of a rookie HC. Not any rookie HC but one who has Tom Brady as the standard. Tom Brady is irreplacable (and McDaniel even showed he could compete without him) who is this moron with a losing record who wants to be treated like Tom Brady without working, learning, and winning like Tom Brady?
If McDaniels backed down from this challenge, he absolutely loses this team and is fired within 2 years. If Cutler is forced to come back, he comes back on McDs terms, and McD keeps his authority. If Cutler is traded, McD finds another QB to win with.

I would bet a lot of money on the following statement:

If Cutler is traded, Josh McDaniel and the Broncos will win more games in the next 3 years than whatever team Cutler is traded to, and if Cutler is traded from Denver, Cutler will never win a SB.

Cutler = this decade's Marino.

BFD.

I totally agree with this thread 100%.