McDaniels' Achilles Heel

[maverick4]

Its actually a greater level of apologist to blame the coach than to blame the players.

Hardly. Coaches and coordinators in the NFL have way more influence over wins/losses than coaches do in the NBA or MLB. Aside from the greater number of players they use, there are more schematic and play calling decisions.

It's deliberately simplistic to skew blame on players for not executing bad play calls.

Everyone in 2001 blames Mike Martz largely for the Superbowl upset, not the players for not executing his stubborn plays and scheme. The same thing applies.

 

[Rob0729]

The fact of the matter, the biggest reason that the Giants won the Super Bowl was that their defensive line out EXECUTED the Pats' o-line. Plain and simple. There were other reasons why the Pats lost including some bad coaching, but that game came down to the team who out executed the other won. The Giants didn't do any thing especially gimmicky or deceptively on defense to shut down the Pats' offense.

That goes to McDaniels' statement which is taken directly from Belichick. The team that out executes the other one wins the game most of the time. This game is still mostly about execution.

Can we stop arguing a game that happened nearly two years ago anyway?

 

[maverick4]

The fact of the matter, the biggest reason that the Giants won the Super Bowl was that their defensive line out EXECUTED the Pats' o-line. Plain and simple. There were other reasons why the Pats lost including some bad coaching, but that game came down to the team who out executed the other won.

This game is still mostly about execution.

1. Here is a classic response from a Pats apologist, concluding that the Pats simply couldn't beat the Giants that day, plain and simple.

2. It's true that in most sports it's all about having great talent simply executing. One can win many games this way and be a perennial playoff team. However, in the NFL above all other major sports, coaching/scheme/adjustments are just as important.

 

[Rob0729]

1. Here is a classic response from a Pats apologist, concluding that the Pats simply couldn't beat the Giants that day, plain and simple.

How is that an apologist. I thought the o-line didn't step up their game enough. I felt there were three plays on the final Giants drive if the Pats executed better, the Pats would have won the game. How is blaming the players for not executing well enough and getting out executed is making apologies? I am blaming the players most, you are blaming McDaniels. That is the only difference. I think the Pats could have beat the Giants with a little better execution especially on three plays in the last defensive stand.

2. It's true that in most sports it's all about having great talent simply executing. One can win many games this way and be a perennial playoff team. However, in the NFL above all other major sports, coaching/scheme/adjustments are just as important.

We are talking about the Super Bowl. That means (at least in theory) the best most talent teams from each conference are facing each other. This isn't the Pats playing the Browns. Both teams had great talent and coaching. When it comes to two great teams matching up against each other, simple execution could be the difference in a game.

 

[maverick4]

I am blaming the players most, you are blaming McDaniels. That is the only difference. I think the Pats could have beat the Giants with a little better execution especially on three plays in the last defensive stand.

We are talking about the Super Bowl. That means (at least in theory) the best most talent teams from each conference are facing each other. This isn't the Pats playing the Browns. Both teams had great talent and coaching. When it comes to two great teams matching up against each other, simple execution could be the difference in a game.

1. So you blame Tom Brady and Randy Moss, for not connecting/executing on those moronic 4 hail mary's to end the game? Even though we only needed 40 yards to kick a FG, with all 3 timeouts left?


2. Since you repeatedly keep putting most of blame on players executing, here is a question. Do you blame Mike Martz more for the 2001 Rams loss, or Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk? Who do you blame *more*, you must choose.

 

[Rob0729]

1. So you blame Tom Brady and Randy Moss, for not connecting/executing on those moronic 4 hail mary's to end the game? Even though we only needed 40 yards to kick a FG, with all 3 timeouts left?

First, it wasn't four hail marys. Second, the sack on second down made it 3rd and 4th and 20. The Pats had to make up a lot of room in a very short period of time. They did only have 35 second and started on the 26 (40 yards would have been an extremely long field goal). The Giants actually played the drive not to not give up the big play like most teams do, but pressuring Brady and forcing him to throw longer. I don't know if the play calling was particularly great, but it isn't as bad as you make it. Besides, if Samuel catches an easy INT (or Meriweather or if they ruled Manning in the grasp), we aren't even debating that drive since the Pats would have won the Super Bowl.

2. Since you repeatedly keep putting most of blame on players executing, here is a question. Do you blame Mike Martz more for the 2001 Rams loss, or Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk? Who do you blame *more*, you must choose.

I credit the Pats defense for execution for that win. The Pats out executed the Rams. The Pats had a great gameplan and the Rams didn't seem to have an answer for it, but the players were the ones who beat up Holt and Bruce and smacked Faulk on every play whether he got the ball or not. If the players didn't execute the strategy to perfection, it wouldn't have worked. In fact, the only reason the game was as close it was was because McGinest didn't execute right and held Faulk drawing a penalty on a play where the Pats intercepted the ball for a TD on the other side of the field.

Again, we have debated this overf and over again. I conceed. The Pats players executed the plays perfectly, they were just the wrong plays. Will that make you happy?!? Or do you plan to continue to bash McDaniels for the next 20 years?

 

[maverick4]

I credit the Pats defense for execution for that win. The Pats out executed the Rams. The Pats had a great gameplan and the Rams didn't seem to have an answer for it, but the players were the ones who beat up Holt and Bruce and smacked Faulk on every play whether he got the ball or not. If the players didn't execute the strategy to perfection, it wouldn't have worked.

This is where we differ. Unfortunately for yourself, pretty much every respected analyst credits the upset to Belichick out-smarting Mike Martz rather than on player execution, since Belichick knew that Martz would stubbornly keep trying to pass and call slants, despite the fact that Belichick repeatedly used nickel and dime all day. He knew Martz would call slants, had his DB's in place to blow up the Rams receivers. Martz could have won if he used Faulk more in the running game.

If it really were more about players executing, Belichick wouldn't have so many books written about him. Most people don't blame the Rams receivers for that loss.

Of course, I know you're only maintaining this position since you're the biggest McDaniels homer ever, and will never attribute any blame to a coach when you can pin it on a player.

 

[Rob0729]

This is where we differ. Unfortunately for yourself, pretty much every respected analyst credits the upset to Belichick out-smarting Mike Martz rather than on player execution, since Belichick knew that Martz would stubbornly keep trying to pass and call slants, despite the fact that Belichick repeatedly used nickel and dime all day. He knew Martz would call slants, had his DB's in place to blow up the Rams receivers. Martz could have won if he used Faulk more in the running game.

If it really were more about players executing, Belichick wouldn't have so many books written about him. Most people don't blame the Rams receivers for that loss.

Of course, I know you're only maintaining this position since you're the biggest McDaniels homer ever, and will never attribute any blame to a coach when you can pin it on a player.

I credit both the coaching and players fairly equally actually. I am pretty consistent in my crediting and blaming execution. Unlike you. I thought it was a brilliant gameplan by the Pats, but it was executed perfectly. Without the execution, the gameplan was irrelevant. Same with the Giants in the Super Bowl, the Giants had a great defensive gameplan and it was executed perfectly. If the Giants didn't win the battle in the trenches, the gameplan would have been crap.

Of course you are the biggest McDaniels obsessive hater. I wouldn't defend him so much if you didn't consistently obsess over the guy and repackage your McDaniels situational awareness bashing of McDaniels any way you can. I prematurely took you off my ignore list. Aparently, you will never get over McDaniels and never bring anything to the table than the same old McDaniels bashing crap. Aparently, I took you off my ignore list too quickly.

 

[Ring 6]

1. So you blame Tom Brady and Randy Moss, for not connecting/executing on those moronic 4 hail mary's to end the game? Even though we only needed 40 yards to kick a FG, with all 3 timeouts left?


2. Since you repeatedly keep putting most of blame on players executing, here is a question. Do you blame Mike Martz more for the 2001 Rams loss, or Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk? Who do you blame *more*, you must choose.

There werent 4 Hail Marys/

 

[maverick4]

I credit both the coaching and players fairly equally actually. I am pretty consistent in my crediting and blaming execution. Unlike you. I thought it was a brilliant gameplan by the Pats, but it was executed perfectly. Without the execution, the gameplan was irrelevant. Same with the Giants in the Super Bowl, the Giants had a great defensive gameplan and it was executed perfectly. If the Giants didn't win the battle in the trenches, the gameplan would have been crap.

You claim to give credit to the 07 Giants and 01 Pats for their game plan, and yet stay vague on criticizing the 01 Rams game plan and 07 Pats game plan. Why is this? It's because at the end of the day, you would rather be inconsistent than lay any indictment on your favorite OC ever.

 

[Ring 6]

You claim to give credit to the 07 Giants and 01 Pats for their game plan, and yet stay vague on criticizing the 01 Rams game plan and 07 Pats game plan. Why is this? It's because at the end of the day, you would rather be inconsistent than lay any indictment on your favorite OC ever.

Dude, you need to realize that you are the one with an agenda where McDaniels is concerned. Everyone else just gives an opinion, you are out to convince the world he sucks.

 

[maverick4]

Everyone else just gives an opinion, you are out to convince the world he sucks.

I don't think he sucks. He's as good an OC as Mike Martz was. However, I think he's a huge reason why we haven't won since 2004. There's a difference. The subtlety flies over your head.

 

[RDS11]

I don't think he sucks. He's as good an OC as Mike Martz was. However, I think he's a huge reason why we haven't won since 2004. There's a difference. The subtlety flies over your head.

IMO, the reason why the Pats have not won since 2004 has much more to do with the defense. Today, they allowed an average QB to complete 75% of his passes. They are unable to close any game, starting with the 2006 AFC Championship, Super Bowl 42 and again today. I'm starting to think that the offense has hidden the defense shortcomings over the last few years, and now that McDaniels is gone the defense is exposed because the offense cannot put up the numbers they used to.