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McCain Using Bogus Argument

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    On Feb. 2, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) told Mullen and Defense Secretary Robert Gates, “Well, I hope you’ll pay attention to the views of over a thousand retired and flag general officers” when considering whether to repeal DADT. Frank Gaffney, president of conservative Center for Security Policy, cited the letter in a Washington Times op-ed that same day.

    That's fine, that's his opinion and he's entitled to it....however - and if 1,000 retired officers agree with him, well that's fine, too....Unless, of course, they don't. Or can't - because they're dead. Or couldn't - because they've had altzheimers for the last 6 years and their wife signed their names for them. Or never signed it in the first place.

    A few facts about McCain's proof:

    – The average age of the officers is 74. The “oldest living signer is 98, and several signers died in the time since the document was published.” Servicemembers United Executive Director Alex Nicholson added that only “a small fraction of these officers have even served in the military during the ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ period, much less in the 21st century military,” so it’s hard to believe that they “know how accepting and tolerant 18- and 21-year-olds are today.”

    – “At least one signer, Gen. Louis Menetrey, was deceased when the letter was published and didn’t sign the document himself. According to a footnote on the letter, his wife signed the document for him after his death using power of attorney — six years after Alzheimer’s disease robbed him of the ability to communicate.”

    – One signatory said that they “no longer want to be a part of the letter, writing to the organization, ‘I do not wish to be on any list regarding this issue.‘”

    – Multiple generals said they “never agreed” to sign the letter in the first place, writing “I never agreed. To represent either side of this issue” and “I do not remember being asked about this issue.”

    – At least seven officers “were involved in scandals tarnishing their careers.” Gen. Carl Mundy, for instance, gained negative publicity when he told CBS’s 60 Minutes that “minority officers do not shoot as well as the non-minorities.”

    In June 2009, a PBS’s Ray Suarez also did a report on the letter, reporting, “The NewsHour contacted a number of four-star officers requesting an interview for this story. However, none agreed to speak to us on camera. One general expressed surprise his name was even on the list, since he says he had never agreed to sign the letter, and at least three officers listed as signatories are dead.”


    Think Progress Report Discredits Letter Waved About By McCain As Evidence Of Military Opposition To DADT Repeal
     
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Alternet references this with this time stamp:
    Posted by Amanda Terkel at 11:30 am March 4, 2010



    Letter Used By McCain As Evidence Of Military Opposition To DADT Repeal Discredited SpeakEasy

    But she says it was first posted on Think Progress:
    By Amanda Terkel on Mar 4th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Sheesh ... liberal time keeping is worse than their fuzzy math ... it's hatchet time by the bot squad.

    There are no dates on any of the signatures ... what a hatchet job.

    For the record I support the repeal ... but this is a hack job by Terkel.
     
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Also for the record:

    Think Progress is based in DC - Alternet is based in San Francisco. There's a 3 hour time difference.

    So when it was posted in DC at 11:30AM it was only 8:30AM Frisco time....it was then posted on Alternet in Frisco 3 hours and 25 minutes later at 11:55AM Frisco time - or 2:55PM DC time.

    Who's got fuzzy math?
     
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh yeah ... Terkel was in DC and then she hopped on a plane to Frisco to post it there
    ... please with this change history crap. It's a hack job.
    The signatures have been collected over time ... nothing to see here folks. :bye2:
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Sheesh.....is there no end to the number of ways you try to delude both yourself and others?

    This is 2010 - you don't have to BE in DC to have something posted from DC. Nor do you have to be in Frisco to post in Frisco.

    What you have to do is have a computer and send in a story to whoever has commissioned you to write the story....or if you freelance, you write it yourself and email it to whoever you want.

    The fact that is was published on the 4th of March doesn't mean it was written or submitted on March 4th.....in fact, most likely, it was written a few days or even weeks before. News reports refuting something in particular especially have to be vetted.

    The author researches it, writes it, submits it, and then it sits and waits for an editor to read it.

    If it's not breaking news (and this wasn't - if you read the story you'd know that McCain used the letter on Feb. 2 and PBS did a story discounting the same letter in June of 2009 - which, BTW, McCain should have been aware of before he shot his mouth off. The letter itself was written in March, 2009) it gets published if and when there's room for it.

    Where Terkel was when the story was published in either place has nothing to do with it. She could have been in China for all it matters....what matters is what time the media source published it - and what time zone they were in.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    More info from a Rupert Publication.. so this has to be reliable..

    Poll Shows Support for Repealing ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you've followed the WSJ polls they tend to be liberal as is their reporting crew (not editorial), AL Hunt was (not sure if he still is) the head of their news bureau.
     
  8. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    As long as they put the same restrictions on gay men as they do on women, I don't have a problem with the repeal of DADT.
     
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Shouldn't the restrictions be the same on everyone - male, female, lesbian or gay?

    Are there currently restrictions on women that are not on men?
     
  10. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    Direct ground combat and submarines are 2 I know off the top of my head.
     
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

  12. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    "ground combat" he meant the traditional jobs: infantry, armor, and artillery...which have fought side by side with the "combat support" and "combat service support" jobs for seven years.

    Rules no longer applied, reasons behind keeping them in place went out the window with the medals given for valor.
     
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's what they want let them do it, my neighbors wife is a f-cking animal, there must be millions more like her in America the military should round them up and put them right up front, they'd scare the sh!t out of the enemy, you couldn't put them in a submarine though they would cause a mutiny and the Captain would have to have them shot.
     

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