Mayock: Solder has ‘tremendously high ceiling’

[Deus Irae]

heh.....and Matt Light is STILL struggling with the fast outside rushers....after how many years

Nobody is saying Solder will be a Pro Bowler his rookie year....but he is the future and will be given every chance to succeed....

Those redwoods we have at tackle should work to our advantage on draw plays..

The fast outside rushers myth has been exploded time and again, so I won't rehash it.

As to allowing Solder to succeed, I don't see how him learning behind Light for a year or two until he's ready is any sort of impediment to that. I'd say it's just the opposite.

 

[BlueThunder]

It's a matter of Dollars and Cents.....

I'll let BB decide the tradeoff of signing Light/Mankins or both......and sitting the #17 pick....

 

[Oswlek]

The fast outside rushers myth has been exploded time and again, so I won't rehash it.

As to allowing Solder to succeed, I don't see how him learning behind Light for a year or two until he's ready is any sort of impediment to that. I'd say it's just the opposite.

In a perfect world, all rookies would get a year or two to get up to speed. The NFL isn't quite set up like that anymore and something tells me that BB/Scar are a hell of a lot more optimistic about Solder than most fans are.

 

[randomk1]

The fast outside rushers myth has been exploded time and again, so I won't rehash it.

As to allowing Solder to succeed, I don't see how him learning behind Light for a year or two until he's ready is any sort of impediment to that. I'd say it's just the opposite.

I've never heard it as a myth. Are you saying that he doesn't struggle with speed?

Last year in that Chargers game i don't know who he was facing but that guy absolutely embarassed him. I think gave up like 2 sacks and a penalty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDAcDsb0GuA

Found a nice vid courtesy of Matthew40. Antwan Barnes just blows past Light on quite a few plays.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I've never heard it as a myth. Are you saying that he doesn't struggle with speed?

Last year in that Chargers game i don't know who he was facing but that guy absolutely embarassed him. I think gave up like 2 sacks and a penalty.

YouTube - ‪Patriots Offensive Line vs the Chargers defense 2010‬‏

Found a nice vid courtesy of Matthew40. Antwan Barnes just blows past Light on quite a few plays.

Light's struggle with speed guys being a myth is news to me. If it is indeed a myth, then the game you posted is one hell of an anomaly.

 

[Metaphors]

Belichick does not appear to be heading down that route.

"He hasn't played safety," Belichick said. "But I think he has the size, ball skills and tackling ability that you could probably make an argument that he could project in there if you wanted him to. I think for right now, we'll play him at the corner, but he is big. He does tackle well. He's tough. He's got good range, good ball skills. I wouldn't say that he couldn't play in there, but that isn't really what he's done."

I remember that. Unless he was channeling Sarah Palin, that verbal stream has more twists and turns than a rollercoaster. While he does explicitly say "we'll play him at the corner", it is drowning in qualifiers.

There are lots of reasons to take a true CB at #33:
1. Start him (would need to cut Bodden)
2. Make him the primary nickel (Butler gets flushed)
3. Ready to step in since CBs are fragile
4. Too talented to pass up...we'll figure playing time out later
5. Get him on the field in coverage without a traditional position

Don't want to get rid of Bodden. Butler struggled a bit but was solid in 2009. Belichick always has a plan and #33 is a bit early for an insurance policy. Obviously I'm hoping #5 is the situation. Play him at CB to get him adjusted but gradually start using him as a wildcard in the middle of the field. CB or FS, man or zone...make the QB use a few seconds and brain cells to figure out what Dowling is doing post-snap. Hopefully that will be enough to stop the recent trend of mediocre to poor QBs having career games against the Pats.

 

[Deus Irae]

I've never heard it as a myth. Are you saying that he doesn't struggle with speed?

Last year in that Chargers game i don't know who he was facing but that guy absolutely embarassed him. I think gave up like 2 sacks and a penalty.

YouTube - ‪Patriots Offensive Line vs the Chargers defense 2010‬‏

Found a nice vid courtesy of Matthew40. Antwan Barnes just blows past Light on quite a few plays.

Light's struggle with speed guys being a myth is news to me. If it is indeed a myth, then the game you posted is one hell of an anomaly.

Take it up with Andy Johnson, if he's still posting here, since he's covered it in the past. As I said, I'm not rehashing it again.

 

[patfanken]

Don't want to get rid of Bodden. Butler struggled a bit but was solid in 2009. Belichick always has a plan and #33 is a bit early for an insurance policy. Obviously I'm hoping #5 is the situation. Play him at CB to get him adjusted but gradually start using him as a wildcard in the middle of the field. CB or FS, man or zone...make the QB use a few seconds and brain cells to figure out what Dowling is doing post-snap. Hopefully that will be enough to stop the recent trend of mediocre to poor QBs having career games against the Pats.

The key to the Dowling pick was the flexibility it gives BB to be creative in the design of his defenses. That was a long winded way to say...."Its all about the match ups". In THIS version of a pass happy NFL, strict designations of who is a CB and who is a S is becoming blurred. With all the passing threats that are out there these days, you can't have TOO many cover guys.

It doesn't matter WHAT you call him, Dowling gives BB something that he hasn't really had, in his tenure here. a true big cover CB. And with Bodden back, he almost has 2 of them. And with all the big WRs in the league right nowl you almost have to have 2.

The thing is, that none of the guys back there are easily named, at least by us. On any given down against any given formation, its more about who you are assigned to cover as opposed to us trying to figure out who is the "nickel back" and who is "dime back" and who is the FS and who is the SS. Those designations have less and less of a meaning these days.

All we are left with now is to watch how they play, and see how many snaps they are getting, and on which downs.

 

[randomk1]

Take it up with Andy Johnson, if he's still posting here, since he's covered it in the past. As I said, I'm not rehashing it again.

Well since you're the one that brought it up...i'd love to hear a defense for it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well since you're the one that brought it up...i'd love to hear a defense for it.

Blue Thunder brought up the "speed rusher" argument/myth. I noted that the myth has been dealt with several times, and I've given the name of a poster you could ask about it, if he's still around.

As I said, I'm not rehashing it.

 

[Oswlek]

The key to the Dowling pick was the flexibility it gives BB to be creative in the design of his defenses. That was a long winded way to say...."Its all about the match ups". In THIS version of a pass happy NFL, strict designations of who is a CB and who is a S is becoming blurred. With all the passing threats that are out there these days, you can't have TOO many cover guys.

It doesn't matter WHAT you call him, Dowling gives BB something that he hasn't really had, in his tenure here. a true big cover CB. And with Bodden back, he almost has 2 of them. And with all the big WRs in the league right nowl you almost have to have 2.

The thing is, that none of the guys back there are easily named, at least by us. On any given down against any given formation, its more about who you are assigned to cover as opposed to us trying to figure out who is the "nickel back" and who is "dime back" and who is the FS and who is the SS. Those designations have less and less of a meaning these days.

All we are left with now is to watch how they play, and see how many snaps they are getting, and on which downs.

Precisely. Take last year, for example, when Chung covered slot receivers in the dime package.

Especially when you consider how much zone NE plays, its almost like there is no distinction at all between the safeties and CBs on obvious passing downs.

 

[Shelterdog]

In a perfect world, all rookies would get a year or two to get up to speed. The NFL isn't quite set up like that anymore and something tells me that BB/Scar are a hell of a lot more optimistic about Solder than most fans are.

Yeah, his draft position. Over the past twenty years something like 90% of tackles drafted in the top twenty start as rookies.

Now his upper body strength seems to be a weaker part of his game(21 bench reps at the combine, which is low but not pathetic) but he has really long arms which hurts bp and relatively low upper body strength hasn't stopped the Pats from playing rookie linemen in the past bench reps (Mankins and Kaczur both also had 21 reps according to this page NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS, Sebastian Vollmer , Nick Kaczur, Matt Light ,Stephen Neal Dan Connolly Logan Mankins Dan Koppen 40 YARD DASH TIMES).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Makes no sense.....a #17 draft pick should be ready to be inserted into the lineup at least halfway into the season, if not sooner.....I expect Solder to be starting this season.....he'll be getting too much $$$ to be a bench warmer....

If Light gets signed, it's because Mankins didn't cost a bundle and there's something left over for what Light is looking for....

Historical precedent is definitely on your side. The Pats have played a whole lot of offensive linemen as rookies. Kaczur started 13 games at LT as a rookie, and I'd normally have a hard time believing that he was more ready than Solder.

But there's still the elephant in the room with all of this year's rookies: how much time they've already lost. I don't think we'll be seeing many rookies making major impacts this season. OTOH, I think we'll see more injuries than we're used to, so who knows, some may be forced to contribute well before they're ready. Some of the more NFL-ready prospects might make strong contributions, but I haven't heard anyone call Solder that yet.

 

[ay-yo]

Precisely. Take last year, for example, when Chung covered slot receivers in the dime package.

Especially when you consider how much zone NE plays, its almost like there is no distinction at all between the safeties and CBs on obvious passing downs.

I don't really agree. Sure safety's need to be able to cover more these days but cb is still what it always has been. You don't see our cb's take a deep half of the field.

I think the Dowling pick was Bill simply taking, as he would say, a football player. Whether he ends up as cb or safety he just took a talented guy who can help the team in one area or another.

 

[Deus Irae]

Historical precedent is definitely on your side. The Pats have played a whole lot of offensive linemen as rookies. Kaczur started 13 games at LT as a rookie, and I'd normally have a hard time believing that he was more ready than Solder.

But there's still the elephant in the room with all of this year's rookies: how much time they've already lost. I don't think we'll be seeing many rookies making major impacts this season. OTOH, I think we'll see more injuries than we're used to, so who knows, some may be forced to contribute well before they're ready. Some of the more NFL-ready prospects might make strong contributions, but I haven't heard anyone call Solder that yet.

Vollmer, on the other hand, wasn't starting. He got the job due to injury.

 

[BlueThunder]

Vollmer, on the other hand, wasn't starting. He got the job due to injury.

And maybe Solder gets the job because Mankins gets his big payday.

In Dante we trust.....

 

[Deus Irae]

And maybe Solder gets the job because Mankins gets his big payday.

In Dante we trust.....

Mankins' payday has nothing to do with Solder. In terms of 'available' money for Light (which is where I assume you were going), in fact, Mankins getting a big contract would probably leave the team with more money, since it would likely lower that $10 million cap hit that Mankins will be taking up under the franchise tag.

 

[BlueThunder]

Good point.....

I still don't think Solder is going to be a bench warmer for a year....unless he busts out badly or gets injured....but with Dante giving him a workout ala Sebastian, I don't see bust happening....especially with a #17 pick....

If Solder doesn't start, he will be getting increased PT as the season goes on...JMHO

 

[Patspsycho]

But there's still the elephant in the room with all of this year's rookies: how much time they've already lost. I don't think we'll be seeing many rookies making major impacts this season. OTOH, I think we'll see more injuries than we're used to, so who knows, some may be forced to contribute well before they're ready. Some of the more NFL-ready prospects might make strong contributions, but I haven't heard anyone call Solder that yet.

I am pretty sure that all the picks were made with the lockout in mind, so if they picked Solder, knowing well that he may miss an entire off-season to get up to NFL speed, they had a reason for doing so.

 

[Fencer]

To rehash, I think Light won't be back, because I think he'll make less money and be in more risk of getting cut on the Pats than on his best alternative option. And by "less money" and "more risk" I mean more than a small difference. It's a much better business decision for Light to take a relatively secure LT job with another team that it is for him to stay with the Patriots.

The Patriots obviously don't believe Light will play OT for them much longer, because they believe Vollmer and Solder will. And while the Patriots clearly know that what they believe might not work out that way, they also have a consistent track record of successfully playing first-round picks. By way of contrast, Light could surely find a few other teams where he can go and be the obvious front-runner for the LT job.

As for Light moving to guard -- that pays less than tackle, and there's no assurance he'd be even as good at the position as he is at tackle, let alone better. There's even no assurance that either Light or Mankins can do a good job moving to the right side.

Guards also inherently have less job security than tackles, because it costs less to draft guys who might challenge them for the job.