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Maybe this is why the skeptics are getting so desperate

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why are the skeptics suddenly resorting to criminal activity -- illegally hacking into emails -- and lies -- claiming those emails say a lot of things they don't say? Maybe because more and more of the facts are going against them. If they can't win with science, then their rich political friends, from Inhofe and the oil companies to the Saudis and skeptics who get rich off oil company grants and popular books, will simply resort to distraction. But, the facts about global warming remain alarming:

    'Permanent' Arctic ice vanishing - thestar.com

    WINNIPEG–One of Canada's top northern researchers says the permanent Arctic sea ice that is home to the world's polar bears and usually survives the summer has all but disappeared.

    ...

    The ice is unable to withstand battering waves and storms because global warming is rapidly melting it at a rate of 70,000 square kilometres each year, he said.

    Multi-year sea ice used to cover 90 per cent of the Arctic basin, Barber said. It now covers 19 per cent. Where it used to be up to 10 metres thick, it's now 2 metres at most.
  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I need to see the original sea ice. And its birth certificate. I don't believe it was ever there :rolleyes:
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Well if we truly want to measure global warming as it relates to ice, and we do not want to be deliberately misleading, then what we need to do is look at the entire planet and not just whatever pocket of the planet happens to suit your agenda at the current time. But the global warming alarmists don't want to do that because the big picture doesn't support their contentions anywhere near as much as they pretend it does.
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, the global warming people always look at the whole planet. It's the deniers who regularly point to individual anomalies to prove there's no global warming. For instance, pf13 often cites a Nasa error that, when corrected, made 1934 hotter than 1998 for the US. This is a big deal among the skeptics, even though it only looks at the US temperatures, and thus has negligible meaning in terms of global warming trends.
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    So when you made a thread dedicated purely to the idea that Arctic sea ice is disappearing, that is something you consider as "always look(ing) at the whole planet"? :confused:
    How is that any different from what you have done in this thread?
    How is that any different from what you have done in this thread?
  6. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Rookie

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  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great where is the data on the 'multi year' ice as opposed to the 'new ice' how did they do their analysis? How do they measure the mass of the ice comprising the polar ice cap?

    Links to the data will be fine.

    Excuse me if I don't take a hysterical claim by a AGW advocate at face value after the lies we have seem this week from the AGW alarmist community and noting the 'need' for sensationalized stories before the Copenhagen summit.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are certainly a variety of types of evidence, and quite obviously when something has gone from 90% of the arctic basin to 19%, that's far more dramatic than a correction in a Colorado weather station's data that resulted in 1934 becoming .2 degree warmer on average than 1998, in my opinion. But, other than that, you're right.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Correct we have multiple occurrences of corrupted data being used by the AGW alarmist to push their agenda. BTW the corrected showed that the 1930's were warmer as a decade than the 1990's.


    Which is why I would like to see data on the mass of the arctic ice in the Northern hemisphere rather than claims without any data. Especially since the satellite data shows that the earth hasn't warmed for the past 10 years and currently temps are declining.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only lie I'm familiar with is illegally stealing emails and then using ambiguities to make some outrageous claims. Frankly, if someone ever put our comments in this forum together with who we actually were, we too would probably come out looking worse than we really are. I suppose the lesson is that people should not assume the Internet is anonymous or that one's private emails will be safe.
  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    It's clear your strategy it to try and put the focus on the hackers and do everything possible to distract people from the fact that we could be talking about one of the greatest scandals in the history of modern science. Just more evidence that the global warming alarmists are not interested in the truth or in facts.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Normally I would expect you applauding the efforts of a whistleblower to expose corruption. BTW the emails are really the tip of the iceberg. The code released so far and being analyzed at the ClimateAudit mirror site is telling the real story of the fraud.

    Here is why the new issue of new versus multiyear sea ice is being dredged up without support data just anecdotes.

    [​IMG]



    Looks like business as usual.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is no scandal, and the scientific evidence remains intact. The sort of stuff you are talking about is just sensationalist distortions that has nothing to do with science. A tiny number of emails out of 61 mb of info are being turned into something they are not. There are a few tacky comments, a few ambiguous comments, and one or two questionable comments, but I think that would be found if the global warming believers stole the 61 mb of emails by the skeptics. Perhaps the skeptics should agree to release all their email correspondence. There is no smoking gun among the emails, despite the best attempts of the wealth vested interests -- the oil companies, the Saudis, and the skeptics who have made a cottage industry out their dishonesty.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spin away Patters the Brits and most of the scientific community see a scandal. Mann is going to be investigated by PSU . The CRU is going to release the data that hasn't been destroyed. Every body is scrambling to avoid the wreckage of tis scandal.

    BTW the Skeptics release their data and methods nothing to 'steal'. What was being done was against the scientific method. That is of course the part you don't seem to understand for whatever reason.

    I would bet this was an inside job by a whistleblower and not a hack from the outside. The person who released the docs knew WHICH docs and code and email to release.

    The scare would cause a reduction of development I am surprised that you as a self proclaimed progressive who cares about the poor would tolerate fraud leading to policies dooming the poeple in the third world to lives of poverty.
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW here is McIntyre on the Yamal divergence (this time with more recent data after Nature mag forced CRU to release the data).

    http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7168


    [​IMG]


    IOW Briffa cherry picked the data from 12 trees in SIberia to 'prove' AGW....





    Note IPCC used the fudged data in their reports. BTW the above quote is from a non commercial site.
  16. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Really? Did you personally read all the emails to make this determination? Or get your orders straight from the Huffington Post? Seems strange that such an intelligent, scientific person as yourself would determine that "there is no scandal" without weighing all of the evidence first. How did you come to your conclusion?
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Be patient it's all coming out, liberals and alarmists HATE mother nature they never know what Mother is going to do next.

    ICE MELTS
    WATER FREEZES
    SUN SHINES
    SNOW COMES
    SNOW GOES
    JULY IS HOT
    WE ARE BORN
    WE DIE

    Somewhere Over The Rainbow
    Bluebirds Fly
  18. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    How is this any different than Daniel Ellsberg illegally releasing the Pentagon Papers?? In both cases, you had people who technically broke the law ( PP were classified documents) in pursuit of what they felt was the greater good, refuting a lie being perpetrated on people. Then it was the outcome of the war, now it was the data that supported man made global warming.
    There are more similarities than I think you'd care to admit. So either both were wrong or neither was but you can't back Ellsberg while criticizing those who released the emails.
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Illegal activities to pursue their own agenda has been the exclusive venue of the right.. see entrapment videos of ACORN... going through their garbage and now this..

    In a real world you are supposed to report a crime to the police, not to the highest bidder.. i.e. fox news, TMZ, National Enquirer.... if you do not report it is called obstruction of justice.. and there is little they can do with the evidence.

    Stormfront is having a ball with this topic.. they have a separate area for this called... Climategate a huge break for white patriots..
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's different because there's nothing in the emails yet. The only things I've read are few tacky comments that weren't meant for public consumption. There is nothing about the data being forged, corrupted, or otherwise abused. There is some data that's missing, but certainly not the bulk of data, and there's no evidence of anything worse than some minor incompetence at this point. I have yet to see anything convincing in those emails that puts the issue of global warming in a different light. The fact is that there were a few glib emails that probably should not have been written by a few scientists. But, questioning global warming based on a handful of gossipy emails would be basing the integrity of the Republican Party on the Abramoff scandal.

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