Maurice Jones-Drew up for trade

[Off The Grid]

A few observations, if I may, Gentlemen...

1 ~ I find all this talk of Wear + Tear utterly baffling. MoJo Drew has plenty of tread left on'is tires: 3 years platooning and 3 years starting leaves a lot left in the Engine. He hasn't been abused, and he's 27.

2 ~ I'd say he's got 4 to 6 Peak years left.

3 ~ So when his current contract is up, he should have about 2 to 4 Peak Years left, and he'll be 29. He probably figures that if he waits until then, he may very well not Get Paid.

4 ~ He may be right.

5 ~ That doesn't mean he that he isn't an A Hole for reneging on a $30 Million contract.

6 ~ I love the stance the Jaguars are taking, and I love their dismissive attitude.

7 ~ And I love the fact that MoJo Hyphenator is now telling his Agent to announce that he's in a twist because his business partner ~ Jaguars Owner Shad Khan ~ is essentially pointing and laughing at a guy ~ Drew ~ who refuses to honor the lucrative contract that he signed. Not to put too fine a point on it, but #$%& him.

8 ~ I find it bizarre and bewildering that anyone would think it a good idea to take on this whining, simpering, pissing, moaning reneger of Contracts at all. Is this the kind of Prima Donna we want in our Locker Room??

9 ~ This is the most potentially explosive BackField we've ever had in Patriots history!! "Slashing" Shane Vereen, an healthy "Uncanny" Danny WoodHead, "Jettin'" Jeffrey Demps, and Steven "You May Fire When Ready" Ridley are young, highly talented, cheap, and locked in really cheaply for the next few years!!

Hello?? Salary Cap??

10 ~ And to actually contemplate some of the hideous Trade Proposals that I've read in this thread...OY!!

 

[patfanken]

BTW - The Jets can't afford to pay him what he's supposed to be making this year, let alone the amount he WANTS to be paid.....and for that matter neither do we. So someone please explain to me what this thread is 80 posts long.

 

[goheels22002]

A few observations, if I may, Gentlemen...

1 ~ I find all this talk of Wear + Tear utterly baffling. MoJo Drew has plenty of tread left on'is tires: 3 years platooning and 3 years starting leaves a lot left in the Engine. He hasn't been abused, and he's 27.

2 ~ I'd say he's got 4 to 6 Peak years left.

3 ~ So when his current contract is up, he should have about 2 to 4 Peak Years left, and he'll be 29. He probably figures that if he waits until then, he may very well not Get Paid.

It would be great if MJD is impervious to wear and tear, but the history of NFL backs just doesn't show that workhorses like him last too long. Read this article - the 2nd to last paragraph is particularly interesting about guys with back-to-back 300 carry seasons.
NFL running backs running into shorter careers - The Denver Post

 

[goheels22002]

MJD is LDT stupid, probably because their midget bodies have midget brains.

Anyway, no because of cost (in trade and money) and wear and tear.

Excellent comparison. MJD has more left than some of the old war horses like Emmitt Smith when he went to the Cardinals or Edgerrin James when he went to the Cardinals.

Wait! That's it! The Arizona Bleepin' Cardinals!

That's where running backs with high mileage go to retire. Scottsdale, Arizona! Sun, golf, long off-seasons, no quarterback, Republicans, great receivers, really hot, but dry hot, Indian casinos, the Grand Canyon, chain gangs, excellent ganja just over the border. Everything Maurice Jones-Drew could wish for.

 

[Off The Grid]

It would be great if MJD is impervious to wear and tear, but the history of NFL backs just doesn't show that workhorses like him last too long. Read this article - the 2nd to last paragraph is particularly interesting about guys with back-to-back 300 carry seasons.

NFL running backs running into shorter careers - The Denver Post

Easy, now, Brother Heels: I didn't claim he was impervious, now, did I? :nono:

What I said was that he has "plenty of tread left on'is tires", which of course he does. :snob:

Even so, you got me thinking...

1 ~ That "back to back 300 Carry seasons" Argument is very valid, though it can certainly be disputed: Tomlinson rang up seven 300 Carry seasons in a row, and the last two years were by far his best seasons!!

2 ~ Based on that ~ and the fact that Mojo Drew shares a similarly warm climate ~ I could argue that we may well expect to see five more Peak Seasons, precisely as I posited.

3 ~ It's the O Backs who hit the truly brutal and abusive 350 -370 Carry range and beyond in a single season who usually suffer the most rapid and dramatic Structural Damage. Larry Johnson and Jamaal Anderson come immediately to mind, but there've been plenty of others.

4 ~ None of this is to discount or discredit your comments about the 300/300 business, which I think is absolutely valid. I've studied this business a great deal ~ I'm a recovering Fantasy FootBall Freak, you see

~ and there's absolutely no question that there is something to it.

5 ~ The Urban Legend of Running Backs Hitting The Wall at 30...is TRUE!! Our old friend, Curtis Martin, you'll probably recall, led the league in rushing in 2004 at the crusty age of 31, yes...But he was the first 30 year old to do so since Marion Motley...in 1950!!

6 ~ As such, I must admit that that casts considerable doubt on my declaration that Mojo has "4-6 Peak Years" left, despite the comparative lack of Wear and Tear to the usual 27 year old Lead Back...

7 ~ But what really undermines my allegation, there, I'd have to say, is LaDainian Tomlinson, himself: Those spectacular two years I referred to, above, came at the ages of 27 and 28: He immediately thereafter faded into shocking mediocrity. Hell...I, myself, was loudly declaring, after'is record breaking season at the age of 27 ~ this was on Sporting News, when I was still grappling with my Fantasy FootBall Addiction!! ~ that if the Bolts were smart, they'd trade the bastard, provided there was just one team stupid enough to make that trade!!

8 ~ All that considered, I'm going to amend my earlier statement: Jones should expect 3 more Peak Years, and anything after that ~ once he turns 30 ~ would have to be considered Gravy.

And it certainly makes his decision to hold out look ~ if not especially honorable ~ at least smart: He'll turn 29 before the 2014 season, the year of his currently projected Free Agency. There'll probably be somebody stupid enough to drop a big fat contract on'm at that point...But it would stupid of him...to count on that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

A few observations, if I may, Gentlemen...

1 ~ I find all this talk of Wear + Tear utterly baffling. MoJo Drew has plenty of tread left on'is tires: 3 years platooning and 3 years starting leaves a lot left in the Engine. He hasn't been abused, and he's 27.

2 ~ I'd say he's got 4 to 6 Peak years left.

3 ~ So when his current contract is up, he should have about 2 to 4 Peak Years left, and he'll be 29. He probably figures that if he waits until then, he may very well not Get Paid.

4 ~ He may be right.

5 ~ That doesn't mean he that he isn't an A Hole for reneging on a $30 Million contract.

6 ~ I love the stance the Jaguars are taking, and I love their dismissive attitude.

7 ~ And I love the fact that MoJo Hyphenator is now telling his Agent to announce that he's in a twist because his business partner ~ Jaguars Owner Shad Khan ~ is essentially pointing and laughing at a guy ~ Drew ~ who refuses to honor the lucrative contract that he signed. Not to put too fine a point on it, but #$%& him.

8 ~ I find it bizarre and bewildering that anyone would think it a good idea to take on this whining, simpering, pissing, moaning reneger of Contracts at all. Is this the kind of Prima Donna we want in our Locker Room??

9 ~ This is the most potentially explosive BackField we've ever had in Patriots history!! "Slashing" Shane Vereen, an healthy "Uncanny" Danny WoodHead, "Jettin'" Jeffrey Demps, and Steven "You May Fire When Ready" Ridley are young, highly talented, cheap, and locked in really cheaply for the next few years!!

Hello?? Salary Cap??

10 ~ And to actually contemplate some of the hideous Trade Proposals that I've read in this thread...OY!!

If there's one type of player that I don't begrudge for contract disputes/holding out, it's workhorse running backs. If they don't perform to their contract they get cut, so threatening to hold out when you significantly overperform your contract is just the other side of a two-way street. If it was just a matter of being underpaid, then that would be one thing, but it's a well-documented fact that using running backs the way that the Jags have used MJD for the last three years dramatically shortens their careers.

So he's not only being underpaid now, but also seeing his already-short window shrink on both sides (one more year in the past, plus a shortened career on top of it) with every 300+ carry season. Both of those factors combined make me somewhat sympathetic to his position. Don't blame the Jags for not wanting to extend him, either--that's just smart business and understanding the nature of the asset that they have.

 

[BananaRepublican]

7 ~ But what really undermines my allegation, there, I'd have to say, is LaDainian Tomlinson, himself: Those spectacular two years I referred to, above, came at the ages of 27 and 28: He immediately thereafter faded into shocking mediocrity. Hell...I, myself, was loudly declaring, after'is record breaking season at the age of 27 ~ this was on Sporting News, when I was still grappling with my Fantasy FootBall Addiction!! ~ that if the Bolts were smart, they'd trade the bastard, provided there was just one team stupid enough to make that trade!! .

Sweet call. It's scary how fast the drop is when it finally comes. It's like freefall speed.

I think MJD has treat left on his tires but I wouldn't trust them more than another 2 years. I mean why bother? We have nice RBs right now and they are barely out of diapers. And they are reasonably priced.

 

[ATippett56]

For the love of God, end the Edelman hostility!

Trade Edelman for MJD!

 

[Joker]

For the love of God, end the Edelman hostility!

Trade Edelman for MJD!

and bring back DeBawkBawkBawkle Fannynunu!!!!!

 

[ATippett56]

and bring back DeBawkBawkBawkle Fannynunu!!!!!

Debacle:

A) Wayne Hunter

B) The 2012-13 NY Jets offense

C) The 2012-13 NY Jets season

:bricks: :bricks: :bricks:

 

[woolster22]

If there's one type of player that I don't begrudge for contract disputes/holding out, it's workhorse running backs. If they don't perform to their contract they get cut, so threatening to hold out when you significantly overperform your contract is just the other side of a two-way street. If it was just a matter of being underpaid, then that would be one thing, but it's a well-documented fact that using running backs the way that the Jags have used MJD for the last three years dramatically shortens their careers.

So he's not only being underpaid now, but also seeing his already-short window shrink on both sides (one more year in the past, plus a shortened career on top of it) with every 300+ carry season. Both of those factors combined make me somewhat sympathetic to his position. Don't blame the Jags for not wanting to extend him, either--that's just smart business and understanding the nature of the asset that they have.

Ditto. Not to mention the stupid money they threw at their kicker. I'd be bull**** if I was a player on that team.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Off The Grid]

If there's one type of player that I don't begrudge for contract disputes/holding out, it's workhorse running backs. If they don't perform to their contract they get cut, so threatening to hold out when you significantly overperform your contract is just the other side of a two-way street. If it was just a matter of being underpaid, then that would be one thing, but it's a well-documented fact that using running backs the way that the Jags have used MJD for the last three years dramatically shortens their careers.

So he's not only being underpaid now, but also seeing his already-short window shrink on both sides (one more year in the past, plus a shortened career on top of it) with every 300+ carry season. Both of those factors combined make me somewhat sympathetic to his position. Don't blame the Jags for not wanting to extend him, either--that's just smart business and understanding the nature of the asset that they have.

A tremendous Argument, my friend.

And I do have a Rebuttal.

"Shortens their careers", you say?

Relative to what, my good man?

Do you think that the Jaguars paid Drew $21,550,000 for 3 years to play part time?

Of course not.

The understanding was that he was about to become the starting Running Back.

He's been averaging 318 Runs a year, since then ~ not light, by any means, but certainly not excessive for a Starter.

And he's been well paid.

Yes, it's universally understood that sustaining that level of workload will produce a substantially shorter career than that of a part timer, like, say...Kevin Faulk...

No doubt about it.

But when did Kevin Faulk ever get a $31,000,000/5 Year contract?

In fact, I doubt that Kevin Faulk made $31,000,000 his entire career.

"Not at the same skill level", you say?

My GOD...You're right.

Another example ~ far closer to Drew's skill level ~ is the explosive Darren Sproles.

Sproles is pulling down about $3,500,000 a year ~ a little more than half of what Drew's 5 year contract calls for, and just about exactly half of what he's pulled down over the first 3 years of it.

Do you really think that Sproles ~ by sustaining a lighter work load ~ is going to be able to play well enough for long enough to sustain that pay level for almost twice as long as Drew?

In fact, do you think that Drew would've been content, 3 years ago, to sign the $14 Million/4 Year contract that Sproles is currently playing under, with the expectation of continuing to share the workload, 50/50, with someone, as he'd done for his first few years?

Or do you think he'd've told the Jaguars to go pound sand, finished his Rookie Contract, and then gone out and sought out a team that would make him the 318 Carries a Year Starter and then pay him accordingly, to the tune of, oh...say 5 Years and $31,000,000??

 

[jmt57]

Read into it what you want but it sounds to me as if Jones-Drew will be back in Jacksonville when the season kicks off.

MJD: "I understand that when it's time to play, it's time to play.'' | jacksonville.com

In the latest development in Maurice Jones-Drew's 29-day holdout, he said in a promotional appearance, "I understand when it's time to play, it's time to play.''

Jones-Drew, who hadn't given any interviews since training camp began, made the comments during a DirectTV promotional appearance while talking to CBSSports.com's Dave Richard in a video teleconference.
Richard asked Jones-Drew what his message was to fantasy football owners debating whether to draft him.

He said, "A lot of people were scared last year with me coming off the knee injury but that obviously panned out well. So if you're scared to draft than be scared, that's your choice. I understand when it's time to play, it's time to play. So it's up to you, you have to do what you want and see how it pans out.''

Jones-Drew did not say when it is time to play but he would have to showup in the next week or so to be ready to start collecting regular season paychecks on Sept. 9 when the Jaguars open the season in Minnesota.
​

 

[IllegalContact]

put him on the jets

I at least want the jets to put up a bit of a fight in the first half before they get pulverized

 

[Kontradiction]

put him on the jets

I at least want the jets to put up a bit of a fight in the first half before they get pulverized

May I ask why? The last time the Jets were able to put up a bit of a fight in the first half before they were supposed to get pulverized, Braylon Edwards was going very feminine backflips on our field and we were done for the season.

 

[jmt57]

He's been averaging 318 Runs a year, since then ~ not light, by any means, but certainly not excessive for a Starter.

I will readily admit that I don't have statistics to back this up, but in my opinion in today's NFL - yes, the amount of use that MJD has had over the last three years is excessive, and will shorten his career. Add in his receptions and MJD has had 1084 touches over the last three years. Now you're up to 361 times per year he's been the focus of 11 players attempting to tackle him, hit him and hurt him.

There is a very long list of running backs whose performance suddenly drops off after getting 300+ touches for just two or three straight seasons in recent years. From Priest Holmes to Ryan Grant and dozens in between, the vast majority of RBs that get 300+ touches tail off very quickly after just a few years of that much use; those that do not, like Steven Jackson, are the exception and not the rule.

Perhaps it is just me, but in my opinion that much use is almost always a guarantee for a very short career in today's NFL.

 

[The Gr8est]

put him on the jets

I at least want the jets to put up a bit of a fight in the first half before they get pulverized

I was thinking the same thing. I'd love to see the Rats give up valuable picks for MJD. He might make them an 8-8 or 9-7 team which would keep them from drafting a "guaranteed" difference maker.

They would still be an unlikely playoff team, but would still be just good enough to not get the needed draft stud that only the truly pathetic get.

It would cost the Rats twice!

:rocker:

 

[brdmaverick]

...I hope that's sarcastic.

I'd trade for him, but I'd offer them a 2nd and nothing more.

ala the Corey Dillon trade that put us over the top in 2004

 

[Off The Grid]

I will readily admit that I don't have statistics to back this up, but in mt opinion in today's NFL - yes, the amount of use that MJD has had over the last three years is excessive, and will shorten his career. Add in his receptions and MJD has had 1084 touches over the last three years. Now you're up to 361 times per year he's been the focus of 11 players attempting to tackle him, hit him and hurt him.

There is a very long list of running backs whose performance suddenly drops off after getting 300+ touches for just two or three straight seasons in recent years. From Priest Holmes to Ryan Grant and dozens in between, the vast majority of RBs that get 300+ touches tail off very quickly after just a few years of that much use; those that do not, like Steven Jackson, are the exception and not the rule.

Perhaps it is just me, but in my opinion that much use is almost always a guarantee for a very short career in today's NFL.

Thanks for regurgitating the points we've already agreed upon.

 

[BradyFTW!]

A tremendous Argument, my friend.

And I do have a Rebuttal.

"Shortens their careers", you say?

Relative to what, my good man?

Do you think that the Jaguars paid Drew $21,550,000 for 3 years to play part time?

Of course not.

The understanding was that he was about to become the starting Running Back.

He's been averaging 318 Runs a year, since then ~ not light, by any means, but certainly not excessive for a Starter.

And he's been well paid.

Yes, it's universally understood that sustaining that level of workload will produce a substantially shorter career than that of a part timer, like, say...Kevin Faulk...

No doubt about it.

But when did Kevin Faulk ever get a $31,000,000/5 Year contract?

In fact, I doubt that Kevin Faulk made $31,000,000 his entire career.

"Not at the same skill level", you say?

My GOD...You're right.

Another example ~ far closer to Drew's skill level ~ is the explosive Darren Sproles.

Sproles is pulling down about $3,500,000 a year ~ a little more than half of what Drew's 5 year contract calls for, and just about exactly half of what he's pulled down over the first 3 years of it.

Do you really think that Sproles ~ by sustaining a lighter work load ~ is going to be able to play well enough for long enough to sustain that pay level for almost twice as long as Drew?

In fact, do you think that Drew would've been content, 3 years ago, to sign the $14 Million/4 Year contract that Sproles is currently playing under, with the expectation of continuing to share the workload, 50/50, with someone, as he'd done for his first few years?

Or do you think he'd've told the Jaguars to go pound sand, finished his Rookie Contract, and then gone out and sought out a team that would make him the 318 Carries a Year Starter and then pay him accordingly, to the tune of, oh...say 5 Years and $31,000,000??

That's fair, but Sproles doesn't make much sense as a comparable. He had well under half as many touches as MJD did last season, and I don't think anyone's talking about cutting MJD's workload in half. A better comp, IMO, might be Lesean McCoy. Over the past 2 seasons, he's had 285 and 321 touches (vs. 333 and 386 for MJD), and now word out of Philly all offseason has been that they're going to make sure to reduce his touches this season. Why's that? Because they just signed him to a 5 year, $45 million contract. The timing of that is no coincidence: they control him long-term at big money, and now they suddenly care about his ability to hold up until he's 29. It's the same with MJD: if the team held his rights for the next 5 years, that would dramatically shift their philosophy on how much to use him.

Same with Ray Rice. He's averaged 356 touches over the past three seasons, and two months ago he signed a five year, $40 million deal. Now that the Ravens actually have a vested interest in keeping him productive until he's 30, I'm willing to bet that his total touches will drop by at least 50, maybe more.

Basically, the worst-case scenario is Chris Johnson. In his first three seasons, he had 294, 408 (!!), and 356 touches. Like MJD, he wisely demanded his big contract, probably figuring that at that rate he'd be a diminished player before he ever hit free agency. Looks like he was right, because the Titans give Johnson his 4 year, $53 million extension, give him $30 million in guarantees, and in 2011 his total touches even 'dropped' to 319. Judging by his career-worst performance, though, it's fair to wonder if it may already be too late. Same with Adrian Peterson -- the Vikings didn't worry about sustainability of his production until they had him under long-term control, and by then they'd already overused him.

I expect that front offices will learn from the Johnson and AP, and the players themselves will too by demanding their big money even earlier. MJD is a bit different, since technically he's seeing his 'big' money now, and that makes me less sympathetic to his case than to someone like Johnson's. I still get where he's coming from, though, because workhorse RBs might be the only subset of players in the league whose shelf life is so short that, even if they consistently perform as All Pros on their rookie or second contract, the nature of the role will likely wear them down before they can get to free agency and have their compensation adjusted to reflect this level of performance. As a result, they almost have to play hardball if they want to be paid fairly for their production.

If I was an NFL running back, got drafted by the Rams in the second round, and got 700 touches over my first two seasons with Pro Bowl production (since Jeff Fisher is notorious for burning out his running backs), I wouldn't wait to the end of my rookie contract. I'd absolutely hold out, on the grounds that every 300+ touch season was dramatically reducing my future earning potential.[ Young stud WRs can wait it out, because barring major injury they have a 10 year window of upper-tier production to make their money. Workhorse running backs don't have that luxury. I understand why you and some others disagree with that philosophy, but IMO all bets are off when the team starts using you in a way that conclusively shows that they're willing to sacrifice your longevity for their own benefit.