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Matt Mosely say the Pats have had a strong interest in Leodis McKelvin

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Rob0729, Mar 24, 2008.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From his latest mock draft:

    http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-5-801/Hash-Mock--Volume-Two.html

    Although I tend to agree with Mosely about the Pats' interest in Clady, I am a little skeptical about the Pats tipping their hand so early and strongly as he suggests. The Pats have had their first round draft interests leaked before such as when Michael Felger reported (before he became persona non-grata in Foxboro) a week before the draft that the Pats were really high on Ty Warren, but never this far away from the draft.
  2. Afterlifemobile-86

    Afterlifemobile-86 Rookie

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    Yeah, i don't know just when everyone thinks they knew what the Pats are doing they go and do something completely out of left field. I like McKelvin as well but at number 7? No thanks, i'd rather trade down get some more picks and maybe get Cason.
  3. BPF

    BPF Rookie

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    Teams never tip their hand this early for the draft. If they do it's to create a diversion away from a player they are really interested in. I can't see the Pats drafting a corner this high when they could trade down a few spots and still grab one.
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I still think CB at 7 doesn't make sense. They could've just re-signed Asante if they were willing to pay such a high price for a CB. Unless they thought Asante was overrated, which they very well could have.

    And he's wrong about us lacking speed at CB, Hobbs is our fastest DB and ran a similar 40 time to what McKelvin was clocked at as well.

    I think that in general, it's probably in the Pats best interest to leak out that they have interest in several prospects who will be available at 7, ie Clady, McKelvin. If a potential trading partner knows that the Pats interest is really in Gholston, for instance, and Gholston is gone by #7, the trading partner will feel they have the leverage.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  6. BradyToMoss

    BradyToMoss Guest

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    Exactly, so this translates to the Pats being completely enamored with DRC.
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As long as its a corner, I'm fine.
    My hope is that BBs favorite corner isnt the same one as everyone elses, and we can trade down to the middle of the first, gain more picks, and still get the guy we want.
  8. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    I think that's the hopeful and likeful scenario. Using #7 on a CB doesn't jive with the Pats sense of value. Why spend the 7th pick on a corner who will get a hefty contract when we could've retained Asante? Why draft McKelvin who is repeatedly noted as not being as strong in zone coverage is also puzzling given the Pats system. A guy like Cason in the middle to late first round in a trade down scenario is much better value, much less risk. Not that I'm a draft expert, but I'd think Cason is a better fit for the Pats than McKelvin at any spot in the draft.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #7 pick isnt going to cost 9.5 mill a year.
  10. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Andy...How much will a 7 cost a year?? So 5 years at how much?? Just curious how close that is to Asante money...not that I think that they should have paid him..I do NOT, but I also do not think there will be value at 7 for a CB...a DL (Dorsey)...a pass rushing OLB (Gholston)..even an OT (Clady..possibly a stretch..) yes. Otherwise I think they trade down and grab a corner there..
  11. LloydBraun

    LloydBraun Rookie

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    I predict:

    1- a move up for Gholston, move just ahead of NY. KC would still likely get their man and another pick;

    2- they draft Keith Rivers;

    3- Sedrick Ellis, or;

    4- they trade down.

    #'s 1 or 4 are the most likely IMO.
  12. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Adrian Peterson was drafted at #7 last year and while I don't know the true breakdown of his contract it was announced at @ $40 mil over 5 years with $17 mil guaranteed.

    For arguments sake let's say the guarantee is frontloaded and the salary backloaded with minimal salaries for the first few years - so you could be looking at something as low as $4 million a year on the salary cap for the first few years.

    Personally I fully expect a flurry of expectations that the Pats will trade UP leading up to the draft. Not that you can trust any of the information but even if Belichick isn't actually interested in leapfrogging the Jets to grab, say an LB he likes, he's likely to spook MangIdiot into expending some draft picks and significant salary cap monies to move up himself to counter a potential Belichick move.

    MangIdiot knows this of course, as he was here when we spooked the Jets to move up to #4 to grab Ferguson - which was likely all a bluff - so therein lies the poker game and bluffs of the draft. Should be interesting.

    Bottom line on the Patriots pick - I could see a few positions as possibilities - LB primarily, then CB or S - but it will all come down to whether BB thinks the players available can be major contributors in his system. He won't waste a pick on a LB if he has any doubt he fits in the system. So while need is a factor, at #7 the Best Player Available factor is paramount.
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Neither will Asante, its a backloaded deal, he might never see the final years.

    So with that in mind, let's look at last year's #7 pick compared to Asante.

    AP = 40 mill over 6 years

    Samuel = 57 mill over 6 years

    AP = number inflated, a lot of incentives, initial cap hit is small
    Samuel = number inflated, back loaded deal, huge initial cap hits, likely won't see all that money


    The 7th pick is going to be expensive, as is Asante Samuel, albeit he is more expensive, particularly at the start of the deal. Asante has played in the Pats system his whole career and would have zero learning curve.

    So if the Pats don't even contemplate bringing Asante back for a deal in the range of what the Eagles gave him, then I see no evidence they would truly think of spending the #7 pick on a cornerback.

    When it comes down to it, even Gholston presents a great deal of risk for the price of #7, granted he also presents a high reward. I'd love to get him, but I believe, like most folks, that they are going to look to shop this pick and move down. If they get two picks in the 10-40 range, then they can add some combo of linebacker (highest priority) and cornerback (next priority) in whichever way they see fit. LBs being Groves, Rivers, Avril and CBs being Cason, Porter, Flowers. Or they can even use later picks for Chevis Jackson and Trae Williams. Truly, CB at #7 doesn't make sense when they can grab a couple of guys later on that might end up being better CBs in the Patriots system them McKelvin, DRC or any of the highly touted guys.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    The Patriots feel this draft is deep at corner. Therefore I suspect that they'll go for a particular LB at #7 or trade down to the middle of the 1st round (if they can) and take a CB or lesser LB. I suspect we'll see a CB in round 2 or 3, as well.
  15. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

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    ah, 'tis the season of disinformation. i love it and i love the draft. unfortunately, it looks like there are 6 premium players and we've got lucky #7. fortunately, it's belioli building this team and not me.
  16. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    Great job! I agree! If we go into it needing a LB/CB 1/2 I am sure they are wieghing their options....Fewer but bigger impact LBs, more CBs, but ALOT more teams needing one in the 62 picks before our 2nd. Most are predicting 10 CBs in the first 2 rounds. I can see them packaging 7 and 62 for another teams 1,2 and likely future considerations. Our 1/2 add up to 1784, this translates to a trade back with 10-11th position(#10/42). I have been thinking about the trades and the more I think of it, the more I figure that where we are at 7, teams need MORE picks, and wont likely do a 2 for 1(#7 for #14&45).
    I am thinking a trade with Cinci could work well for both of us, especially if they are targeting Ellis. But lots of different scenarios, lets just take OLB first though.....
  17. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    The Pats may have felt that they couldn't afford Asante, Randy and the #7 pick going forward, so they let Samuel get away knowing the draft class was a good one for CB.

    The Pats don't have the luxury of assuming that they can trade out of #7. They have to do their homework. If they can't trade out, I'd expect the Longs and Gholston to be gone, at which point, they'll be looking at Clady, McKelvin, Groves or Harvey at #7, in my opinion.
  18. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Matt Mosely apparently has never seen what the Pats do before and during the draft. Yeah, the Pats are really going to come out and say who their going to draft with the #7 overall pick? Sure :rolleyes:. I'm sure this guy has never played poker either. What a douche.
  19. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With all the bodies we have at db, I would think
    a higher priority in this draft would be TE and G/T
    I agree that linebacker has to be addressed before any
    of these positions.
  20. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    We have four TEs on the roster and dozens of Olinemen. Granted, these positions can still be upgraded, but so can the defensive backfield.
  21. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    and yet everybody seems willing to take as gospel that jerry jones is ready to trade the farm for darren mcfadden....
  22. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The team currently has 13 dbs. Lots of guys there that could
    step up for us.
    While at least half the TE roster are of the receiver variety.
    We need a good blocking TE more than a corner.
    I can't speak of the OL, Thought we could use more competition there, though.
  23. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    If the Patriots keep #7 they will draft someone either they:

    a) Did not work out.
    b) Did not interview.
    c) Was never mentioned in any mock drafts for the Patriots.
  24. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    They made contact with Meriweather about three different times (that I know of) prior to the draft last year, and it was discussed on this forum.

    Chad Jackson met with BB, and NE sent team officials to meet with Maroney in '06, too.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2008
  25. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    Kyle Snyder blows.

    Now that I've got that off my chest...

    link

    Of his contract, that's over $14 million in incentives (some likely, such as the 1300 yards one, others unlikely, such as gaining 2000 yards and 20 touchdowns concurrently and consecutively for three seasons). He's guaranteed $17M.

    [​IMG]

    link

    The cap charges for Samuel are relatively consistent throughout, so it is not a "backloaded deal." Unless Samuel completely blows in Philadelphia (still a possibility) there is very little evidence to support the notion that he will not see all of that money.

    I assume we're all familiar with the AAV of Samuel's deal (roughly $9.5M), and for the sake of the argument I will also assume that Peterson gains another 1300 yards within the next two seasons, and will be generous (IMO) and say he tops 20 TDs twice between '08 and '10, but will not make 2000 yards in that period. With the other money he made last season ($2.7M) and the assumed incentives he'll make in the next couple of seasons, that will give his contract roughly a six year deal worth $35M, or over $20M cheaper than Asante would be over that same time period (six years).

    This is by no means a strong indicator of what the Patriots would sign a player to (they could wind up paying less for the same draft position, just look at the contracts of players in the top ten from 2006 and 2007) and Peterson is a pretty rare talent. I, personally, don't believe either a rookie cornerback or rookie linebacker will come in and start from day one, which would limit some of the likely incentive money they could earn (most likely double digit sacks/number of interceptions, playing time, games started, Pro Bowls, etc.).

    I would rather see the team go in a different direction than CB at #7, but there is a huge difference between the contract given to AS and the one they would potentially give to his replacement at seventh overall.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2008
  26. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Look at your own graphic with the dead money hits and the salaries for every given year. The cap hit is the least relevant number when considering how much of that $$ Asante sees. It is a backloaded deal when you look at the salaries. They can release him in the final years without facing a great burden of dead $.

    Yes, Asante's contract is going to pay him more money over 6 years, if he is retained all 6 years. I'm not arguing that. But the point remains - would you rather pay Asante 6 x 50 or a roookie 6 x 30+? They are both big contracts, neither present good value, but I think between the two, the value would clearly be with Asante. Which is why I still think there's no way they pick a CB at #7. A CB just isn't worth that amount of $$ and that pick when there are really good CB options later in the draft.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2008
  27. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    He is not making significantly more at the back end of the deal than he is at any other time in the course of the contract. If the salary (and bonuses) for his final two years are even remotely comparable to the rest of the contract it is (by definition) not "backloaded." Being able to release someone without a burden of dead money does not mean his contract is backloaded.

    Samuel is overpaid and will probably be overpaid throughout the life of that contract, the question we have to ask is will there be a time in the course of the rookie cornerback's contract where he is worth the 7 or so million his contract averages out to be? Said rookie has the opportunity to be a better player than Samuel, too (and if you're drafting him seventh overall there is, or should be, great confidence that he will pan out). If he is better than Samuel and paid less it would be the better value.

    As I said before, I don't think it's the best move to draft a cornerback with the seventh pick, but it has more to do with the value of cornerbacks in the Pats' scheme and the availability of other cornerbacks in the draft, but saying they will not replace Samuel with the first round pick because of either of their contracts is beyond shortsighted.
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