Matt Light and the OL in general

[stinkypete]

Every team's OL is going to lay at least one egg a year. Just part of the game. The Patriots line has been one of the league's best until yesterday. They'll be fine.

The line should be addressed though, and I suspect that Oakland pick might produce a LT.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Light is not going to get a big money extention from the Pats. BB will use FA and the draft to re-invigorate the aging OL.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Every team's OL is going to lay at least one egg a year. Just part of the game. The Patriots line has been one of the league's best until yesterday. They'll be fine.

The line should be addressed though, and I suspect that Oakland pick might produce a LT.

I agree with this. The OL has been looking good up to this game compared to last season. I'm attributing this to the battle last week, long flight, playing at the Q.... Lets hope it was a fluke. Matt light was pissing me off.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

What big hole?

It was not a cut outside, it was a bounce out, and it is BJGE's job to follow the FB. Where could he have "cut"?

Maybe he should have jumped over that huge scrum pile? But then he'd have to deal with the FS coming right at him?

The Chargers read that play all the way through and had everyone flowing right.

There was absolutely a cutback lane on that play. Your screenshot is too early in the development of the play. Benny needed to be more patient. The middle is indeed clogged, as Koppen got submarined and dropped in place at the snap. However, if Benny had followed Connolly and cut back, he would have easily had the yard, after Wendell pushed his man clear of Koppen and the NT. To do this, he'd have to sell the outside run and then cut back to hit the point of attack and run off Wendell's right shoulder. Unfortunately, it's not Benny's strength to setup blockers this way, but the yard was there inside. Fred Taylor would have gotten it. I'm not sure whether Sammy Morris would, but I think he's better in this situation and will likely get the call as short-yardage back next week, at least when we're not worried about keeping a drive tempo running.

Not only that, but Connolly missed a block, helping Hernandez with a double team instead. The Charger shot the gap and got to BJGE.

Hernandez got beat inside. Connolly had to help him, or we would have had penetration at the point of attack.

 

[Buchanty]

One of my biggest disappointments following TC, was that Ted Larsen (my binkie) didn't make the grade, because he at least provided competition for Koppen, who in my book has fallen off the most of anyone in terms of performance. Tampa Bay picked him up and he got his first start on Sunday against the Rams.

Other than Larsen, Koppen has been virtually unchallenged in the last few years when it is obvious that his skills have declined greatly from his pro-bowl year. I felt a twinge of envy when the Steelers picked up Pouncey, although I am more than happy with McCourty.

I do agree with other posters that the Chargers have one of the best pass defenses in the league, and maybe this experience will have given us an idea of what it might be like if we ever face the Giants this year (which only happen in the SB).

 

[NEGoldenAge]

There was absolutely a cutback lane on that play. Your screenshot is too early in the development of the play. Benny needed to be more patient. The middle is indeed clogged, as Koppen got submarined and dropped in place at the snap. However, if Benny had followed Connolly and cut back, he would have easily had the yard, after Wendell pushed his man clear of Koppen and the NT. To do this, he'd have to sell the outside run and then cut back to hit the point of attack and run off Wendell's right shoulder. Unfortunately, it's not Benny's strength to setup blockers this way, but the yard was there inside. Fred Taylor would have gotten it. I'm not sure whether Sammy Morris would, but I think he's better in this situation and will likely get the call as short-yardage back next week, at least when we're not worried about keeping a drive tempo running.



Hernandez got beat inside. Connolly had to help him, or we would have had penetration at the point of attack.

Hmmm.... dabruinz alter ego? Is being "right" so important that you ignore reality? :bricks:

 

[pencilneckgeek]

Hmmm.... dabruinz alter ego? Is being "right" so important that you ignore reality? :bricks:

I have no idea who DaBruinz is other than a screen name with a penchant for argument. I just happen to agree with him in this case. I'm simply presenting my read of the play from the time of the game and watching the replay over and over. I posted the same thing on the 4th and 1 thread. My opinion hasn't changed based on Patpsycho's screenshot. The only question in my mind is whether the defense would have flowed outside as it did and enabled Wendell to get enough push to create a cutback lane if Benny hadn't bounced it outside. Watching the replay with this question in mind, I still think that a more discipline explosive runner, like Fred Taylor, would have made the yard by following the flow outside and cutting back in the late-deveoping A gap. It wouldn't be pretty, a half yard or so to spare probably, but I think he would have converted.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I have no idea who DaBruinz is other than a screen name with a penchant for argument. I just happen to agree with him in this case. I'm simply presenting my read of the play from the time of the game and watching the replay over and over. I posted the same thing on the 4th and 1 thread. My opinion hasn't changed based on Patpsycho's screenshot. The only question in my mind is whether the defense would have flowed outside as it did and enabled Wendell to get enough push to create a cutback lane if Benny hadn't bounced it outside. Watching the replay with this question in mind, I still think that a more discipline explosive runner, like Fred Taylor, would have made the yard by following the flow outside and cutting back in the late-deveoping A gap. It wouldn't be pretty, a half yard or so to spare probably, but I think he would have converted.

I disagree on both issues.

 

[Patspsycho]

There was absolutely a cutback lane on that play. Your screenshot is too early in the development of the play. Benny needed to be more patient. The middle is indeed clogged, as Koppen got submarined and dropped in place at the snap. However, if Benny had followed Connolly and cut back, he would have easily had the yard, after Wendell pushed his man clear of Koppen and the NT. To do this, he'd have to sell the outside run and then cut back to hit the point of attack and run off Wendell's right shoulder. Unfortunately, it's not Benny's strength to setup blockers this way, but the yard was there inside. Fred Taylor would have gotten it. I'm not sure whether Sammy Morris would, but I think he's better in this situation and will likely get the call as short-yardage back next week, at least when we're not worried about keeping a drive tempo running.

What are you basing your interpretation on? I have seen the play over and over again.

It was a bounce out play and the way it's designed there is no chance of a cut back because Gronk has already left his spot to cut over for the chip on Burnett who clearly has him beat, so there is nobody left on the strongside to block for a cut back and BJGE would have been dropped for a loss.

The simple fact is Connolly blocked the wrong guy. He just slammed into the back of Hernandez who was having trouble with his guy, and that allowed Applewhite a free path to BJGE.

But the real culprit is Crumpler who was already having a terrible day at blocking. His man was Applewhite and because he didn't engage well, Applewhite was able to shed easily and shade to the left of Hernandez shoulder to stop BJGE. If Crumpler had engaged Applewhite well, Connolly would have engaged Quentin Jammer who was the outside CB, leaving nobody to cover BJGE.

But a play is only effective when the other team doesn't know it is coming, and in this instance, they read it right from the very start. Why? Because it is the same play BB ran when BJGE got that crucial 1st down earlier in the game, and the same play when he got his TD. So why wouldn't they expect it again?

You argue that there was a cutback lane on the right of Wendell's shoulder, but that is exactly where the scrum pile is. Also how would you account for Burnett who is flowing right and who would have met BJGE at the LOS (since Gronk is barely able to chip him)?

EDIT: I do see where you are coming from- theoretically BJGE could have nestled himself behind the wake of Light and Wendell, but the problem with that is that because of the design of the play, they are not blocking forward but pulling left, so there would be no forward progress.

 

[aluminum seats]

To go back to the OL in general, agree that the line is generally strong, and better not to have that "bad game" in the Super Bowl, like a certain game we all remember.

Having said that, I'd like if Mankins could be brought back, w/another stud added in the draft next year.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

What are you basing your interpretation on? I have seen the play over and over again.

It was a bounce out play and the way it's designed there is no chance of a cut back because Gronk has already left his spot to cut over for the chip on Burnett who clearly has him beat, so there is nobody left on the strongside to block for a cut back and BJGE would have been dropped for a loss.

The simple fact is Connolly blocked the wrong guy. He just slammed into the back of Hernandez who was having trouble with his guy, and that allowed Applewhite a free path to BJGE.

But the real culprit is Crumpler who was already having a terrible day at blocking. His man was Applewhite and because he didn't engage well, Applewhite was able to shed easily and shade to the left of Hernandez shoulder to stop BJGE. If Crumpler had engaged Applewhite well, Connolly would have engaged Quentin Jammer who was the outside CB, leaving nobody to cover BJGE.

But a play is only effective when the other team doesn't know it is coming, and in this instance, they read it right from the very start. Why? Because it is the same play BB ran when BJGE got that crucial 1st down earlier in the game, and the same play when he got his TD. So why wouldn't they expect it again?

You argue that there was a cutback lane on the right of Wendell's shoulder, but that is exactly where the scrum pile is. Also how would you account for Burnett who is flowing right and who would have met BJGE at the LOS (since Gronk is barely able to chip him)?

EDIT: I do see where you are coming from- theoretically BJGE could have nestled himself behind the wake of Light and Wendell, but the problem with that is that because of the design of the play, they are not blocking forward but pulling left, so there would be no forward progress.

Burnett would have been the one to beat, if BJGE had cut it back, but at least he would have been running downfield. Still, focusing on how quickly and thoroughly Crumpler got shed, it's harder to expect Benny to have known he should cut back instead of bounce outside, where he should have been one-on-one with the safety, instead of one on three with an unblocked Jammer and effectively unblocked Applewhite.

I'm done watching that play. It's uglier every time I look at it. Watching the overhead view, the speed with which the safeties charged to the point of attack after the snap reinforces your contention about how ready SD was for that play call. I could tell the front seven were ready for it, but the pursuit made it look like SD had pretty much guessed on that one play out of the entire Pats playbook. Yeesh. I'm extra glad they won.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we would ahve a "generally strong" OL if we added Mankins and another stud.

To go back to the OL in general, agree that the line is generally strong, and better not to have that "bad game" in the Super Bowl, like a certain game we all remember.

Having said that, I'd like if Mankins could be brought back, w/another stud added in the draft next year.

 

[Kasmir]

What big hole?

It was not a cut outside, it was a bounce out, and it is BJGE's job to follow the FB. Where could he have "cut"?

Maybe he should have jumped over that huge scrum pile? But then he'd have to deal with the FS coming right at him?

The Chargers read that play all the way through and had everyone flowing right.

I just slo-moed that play about a dozen times. This one's on BJGE, with an assist to Connolly and Crumpler. BJGE broke it outside like he did on the earlier 4th and 1 -- which he barely made -- when if he had just followed his blocking and put his head down no way he wouldn't have made it. Koppen, Neal, and Vollmer had the left side of the SD line on the ground, and -- reading left to right -- Hernandez, Crumpler, Connolly, Light and Wendell had stood up the right side of the SD line at the 50 yard line. A dive would have worked easily. No way that BJGE barreling between Connolly and Light wouldn't have gotten to the 50. Instead, he ran outside his blocking, right into Applewhite. Looks like BJGE thought Connolly would take the DE --which he probably should have -- but when Connolly doubled Hernandez's man instead BJGE needed to stay inside. Crumpler had blocked Applewhite to the outside but couldn't sustain the block, and Applewhite read BJGE and scraped outside to make the tackle. BJGE needs to get back to running to his strengths and within his limitations: he doesn't have the speed to get outside, but he's an excellent straight-ahead runner...