Welcome to PatsFans.com

Matt Cassel...System QB...What does it mean ??

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PaulThePat, Nov 24, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    What exactly do people mean by a “System” QB ? It’s a label which has been thrown at Tom Brady over the years and now I read people tagging Matt Cassel with the same thing. I get the impression it’s almost a mild form of insult on a players ability implying that outwith his current system he wouldn’t be a success. Read another thread on another NFL forum in which the likes of Carson Palmer, Jay Cuttler, Chad Pennington and Eli Manning were classified as not being system QB’s. That tends to imply non-system QB’s are pass happy, off the cuff players who are as likely to thrown an interception as a TD.

    If by a system QB they mean someone who is a product of his environment (je coaches etc), someone who does what he’s told and plays for his team to win and not to pad his numbers then I’ll have a system QB every time. End of the day though almost every QB is a product of his system but I doubt that would stop them being a success in other teams if the right coaches were in place to make the player happy.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    20,013
    Likes Received:
    181
    Ratings:
    +287 / 5 / -8

    Yah, from a Pats perspective, it means very little. You really think this team is hoping that one day they'll be able to land (my favorite term) a "gunslinger" who doesn't really care what the coaches want, and improvises a lot?

    Who knows. I don't think so. I think the Pats want a guy who will play within their system, rather than roll the dice whenever he gets the urge.

    Obviously QBs have success both ways. But you're right, they say "system quarterback" as an insult.

    As in "yeah but he'd be nothing if you played him in a pickup game in the backyard scratching out plays in the dirt, and the other QB was Brett Favre. He just goes out and executes plays made up by coaches and does so flawlessly. What fun is that?"

    Think about it though. One team will have the best coach in football. Perhaps five other teams will have coaches worth mentioning in their own right. The rest are run-of-the-mill.

    So for fans of the majority of teams, it is an iffy proposition to get a "system quarterback," because you have no faith in your coaching.

    PFnV
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    29,696
    Likes Received:
    201
    Ratings:
    +434 / 5 / -1

    System QB is an overrated term. Every QB is a system QB. Do you think that Peyton Manning could go to an offense where he needs to do a lot of roll outs? The fact is most if not all QBs only fit certain systems and when they are in the right system, many QBs thrive. When they go to another system that doesn't exploit their strengths, they fail.

    Cassel is a poor man's Tom Brady. It is no wonder he would thrive in a system that is designed for Brady.
  4. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,004
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    I never liked that term, as I have said in previous posts. The system will help you along, the QB makes the reads and the throws.

    It is like who is better, the QB or the coach. In my eyes the coach sets the QB up to win, and it is ultimately, even if we are talking about Dilfer, the QB that goes out and executes.

    System QB...:rolleyes:
  5. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2007
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yep, that's what I was thinking. You have to wonder what other coaches in the NFL would have done with Tom Brady. Obviously BB was able to mold Tom into a HOF QB using the skills Tom had and taking them to a new level. For other teams to lable him (and Matt) as system QB's simply impies that they think BB is the only coach in the NFL who can take 6/7th round picks and turn them into great quarterbacks....which seems an admission of defeat on their part.
  6. PJM

    PJM Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think the term is just meaningless media jargon. System QBs exist in college where some schemes edit out whole skill sets needed for the NFL. There are certainly some QBs that work better in some schemes - such as Jeff Garcia in the West Coast. In fact Cassel is arguably a better athlete than Brady in terms of running and arm strength and so could possibly work better in another scheme. I think the Pat's scheme did him no favours, at first, as it requires the QB to make lot of reads and uses very little power running or max-protection. The fact that he is now throwing 400yards+ per game is a credit to him and the coaches.
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,698
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0

    Matt Cassel threw the ball right on target nearly every pass yesterday. Guess that makes him a "system QB"?? I'm with you, I think it is a mild insult, and its unwarranted.

    If someone is going to make a case to diminish Cassel's value on the FA market, then I would point to the fact that he won't be going to an offense with Moss and Welker - but that has nothing to do w the system. It just means that the crap teams that are lacking QBs don't have the kind of weapons to offer that New England does, so even a QB who has displayed pretty good smarts and skills like Cassel may have trouble there.

    I'm happy Cassel will get his payday, but I feel bad for him it will probably wind up on one of the lesser teams in the league for us. But fortunate for us, I don't want him as competition in the years to come.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  8. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Another excellent post on the morning. Will wonders never cease.

    Even Manning is a system QB in that he couldn't succeed absent Polian building one around him. The difference here is the QB's skill includes adaptability to the system Bill wanted to run. Marino was a prolific QB but his teams never succeeded because they lacked a system. Favre's teams have only succeeded to any extent when he is handcuffed into playing within a system.

    At the end of the day it really boils down to the importance of intangibles vs. measurables. But since intangibles are hard to quantify and even harder to identify, the media fawns over measurables and "talent" and kvetches when they somehow don't just translate.

    The NFL has increasingly become a coaches league, which when the successes are limited to so few (one of whom wears that dreaded hoody) and many of their fawned over toadies can't compete despite barrels of talent, leads mediots and frustrated fan bases to lash out in self defense by trying to denigrate that success as something formulaic/robotic and not what footbal was really intended to be - sandlot on TV.
  9. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    A "System QB" is a simple thing to understand - People use this term to disparage a QB. There is no flattering use of the term "System QB", no QB out there wants to be known as a "System QB". Many times is a back handed compliment, i.e. "Matt Cassel is a good System QB".

    It means that you can only operate inside of the system, i.e. Playcalling, that you currently play in - and that you are in fact successful, NOT because you make good decisions, but because your play is basically scripted by the coaching staff.

    It's a stupid comment to make about a QB because, Like you said, every QB out there is a product of their "System" - Even that stupid ass gunslinger in New Jersey.
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,449
    Likes Received:
    286
    Ratings:
    +736 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    Being called a 'system quarterback' just means that people who've looked at that player don't think he'd thrive outside of a certain type of offensive system. Chad Pennington wouldn't thrive in a Raiders-type of offense where the emphasis is on the deep ball, Jeff Garcia has struggled when he's been outside of the West Coast style of offense, etc.

    "System quarterback" isn't a compliment, but it's not a death sentence either.
  11. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    While I don't Cassel is a system QB, I mean he's never even played in any system before this year, I do think he won't do as well on another team because of the talent he has around him. Hopefully this offseason he gives the Pats some respect and doesn't go running after the money to play on some pitiful team where he'll just fall into oblivion.
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,406
    Likes Received:
    110
    Ratings:
    +180 / 4 / -5

    What exactly are you suggesting Cassel should do?
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Probably stay here for nothing since the fanbase and media here has been so loyal to him...:rofl:
  14. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    There is no such thing as a system QB. There is good coaching and bad coaching. Not putting your QB in the best possible spot perform is bad coaching, it doesn't make the QB a non-system QB.

    If someone ever tells you Brady or Cassel are just system QBs, punch them in the face.
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,449
    Likes Received:
    286
    Ratings:
    +736 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    Chad Pennington in a deep ball offense would be an utter failure due to his lack of arm strength. Drew Bledsoe struggled in the BB system, and I'm sure you're not claiming that the struggles were due to bad coaching.

    Some players are, indeed, system quarterbacks.
  16. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,681
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Wait, we have a successful system where any QB can come in and succeed? I thought all of our success was due to the GOAT and BB was just an average coach without him. :rolleyes:
  17. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,043
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    As a Patriots fan I would like him to stay on the team as he could take over for Brady at some point. He could also want to feed his family, but if he goes to a losing team he'll look like the high school player he started out as. Instead of collecting smaller pay checks for the next 10 years, he would be taking a risk that he doesn't play as well and only lasts a year or two.
  18. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,439
    Likes Received:
    247
    Ratings:
    +537 / 13 / -12

    System QB's???????...like Michael Vick and Kordull Stewart?...oh wait...Vick is an "in the system" QB...my bad
  19. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    You just don't get it. You don't put a noodle-arm QB in a deep ball offense. If you do and expect immediate good results, you are an idiot (coaching).

    Drew Bledsoe wasn't a great QB, period. It's not like he went to Buf/Dal and dominated. He had a couple good seasons, but other than that, he was an average, maybe slightly above average QB. What is to say he would have performed any better on any other team?

    It's about getting the most out of you're QB. Some teams have better system's than others, but that is no different than one RB having a better Oline than another RB. Teams that get great QBs (or potential greats) try to groom them and build their offense around them. Thats what the Pats, Colts, and Giants have done. Other teams just try to plug an available QB into their system and it doesn't always work. The problem is often: A. The QB just isn't any good. or B. They didn't put the QB in the best spot to succeed.

    It's just a meaningless term. If you took a QB out of a vacuum, threw them onto a team, had them script and call all the plays, THEN I agree they are not a system QB. If a QB works with a coaching staff and teammates, they are PART of a system.

    Now, you can say the Patriot's system is better than most. Thats valid.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,449
    Likes Received:
    286
    Ratings:
    +736 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    It's not a meaningless term, as you yourself acknowledge in your first paragraph. It's one thing to assert that you don't believe Brady/Cassel/fill in the QB is a system quarterback, it's another to assert that there's no such thing as one.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>