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Maternity crisis: Women are giving birth in lifts and even toilets

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets

    By Jenny Hope and Nick Mcdermott
    Last updated at 8:36 AM on 26th August 2009
    Comments (233) Add to My Stories

    Thousands of women are having to give birth outside maternity wards because of a lack of midwives and hospital beds.


    The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets | Mail Online

  2. STFarmy

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    What's with the scare tactics hate monger? Dissent being a form of patriotism stopped after January 19th.
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's certainly horrific that there are some situations where women in the UK give births in hallways and lifts. It no doubt contributes to their infant mortality rate of 4.85 per 1,000 live births.

    Once again: UK, 4.85 deaths per 1,000 live births. That's the UK's infant mortality rate.

    Do you have heartwrenching little stories that explain the United States' infant mortality rate of 6.26 deaths per 1,000 live births?

    That's much higher.

    Once again: US, 6.26 deaths per 1,000 live births.

    What are the stories that add up to the higher incidence of infant mortality in the United States?

    Since everything is perfect here, and conditions are so much worse in countries with better health indicators, shouldn't we have a lower infant mortality rate?

    Why does a baby in Sweden - with 2.75 deaths per 1,000 live births - have such a higher chance of survival than an American baby?

    Is it the robust free-market model Sweden uses to determine health care? Oh wait, no, Sweden doesn't do that.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

    Clowns.

    PFnV
  4. sdaniels7114

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    Its cute how they quietly fold two years worth of births together to double the number of babies born outside of perfect hospital conditions and insert that number right in the headline. So keep in mind that the 4000 is actually 2000 per year. Couple that to the reported 700,000 babies born in the UK every year and you get one child in 350. Further couple that to the fact that the birth rate in the UK has risen sharply over the last few years (it went up by 18,000 babies between 2007 and 2008) and you're left with STFarmy's quite apt question

    Only I'll ask it without the implied sarcasm of the second sentence.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  5. Harry Boy

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    If they shove their "Obama Health Care Crap" down our throats make the Dirty Politicians use it also, can anybody explain why the Old Hag Pelosi and her gang of grinning Rats won't have to have the same Health Care as we do?

    If the Obama Crap is so great why won't those bastards in congress use it?

    THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT AND THE PEOPLE SHOULD DO MORE THAN JUST YELL.
  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    Most of Congress isn't old enough to have your health insurance there Harry. It would be illegal for 57 yr old Susan Collins (one of your Senators btw) to get Medicare and while legality seldom stops the average Republican, it seems to have worked in this case.
  7. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey
    Most people are happy with their health insurance and their medical care. They say they want "reform" but they partly talking about cost and partly responding to two decades of hearing about the "healthcare crisis". The obamans have no right to take a working system away from us for their grand experiment. Americans want costs to be lowered if possible without hurting their healthcare and for those who truly can't afford it, but try (i.e. have, or try to get, a job) to get some level of basic care. That is it.

    Most people don't want this experiment. Sorry, that's how it is. Now - the $120 the insurance was billed when I went to the Dermatologist to have a mark on my face looked at to see if I should have it removed in case in could be cancerous and I literally saw the doctor for 90 seconds, that kind of billing could see some reform. Although I'll say again, the best reform would be for it not to be covered, if we spent our own money (and had lower premiums) we'd look into the cost more before showing up. Health insurance should be like car insurance, just for the big stuff.
  8. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    What a bunch of hypocrites. 20 minutes before they are born you could care less if if they were sucked through a blender with a shop vac.

    Anyway,

    Bernadine Healy, M.D.: Behind the baby count - US News and World Report

  9. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Thanks for that article. I think PFinVA made a good point with infant mortality, and it made me think a little bit. But it did seem that there were likely a lot of variables in how different places calculated infant mortality. I am curious to see how much of a difference it would make.
  10. Harry Boy

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    I'm talking about The Sh!t they are trying Ram through now not medicare, if they succeed with their Obama Crap will the bastards in congress be using it.

    (Collins/Snowe, closet liberal loons they never get my vote, they are two grinning back stabbing jerks)
  11. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I don't know where people get the idea that the Republican party is full of miserable hate mongers. Its a deep mystery.
  12. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    No, you're talking about what the Hannitys and Limbaughs of the world have called it, not what it actually is. Like Belechickfan who want's a cheaper system that insures the poor; but doesn't want Obama's plan even though that's exactly what it does.
  13. Harry Boy

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    Why are so many Americans against it and if it is so great why won't Pelosi and her sniveling little sidekick Reid be using it?
  14. Fogbuster

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    Don't know if your figures are accurate, but even if they are ... infant mortality in the U.S. will only INCREASE with socialized medicine. And the costs to economy will spiral beyond control. Remember one thing: the same Congress who is pushing for this bride of Frankenstein is the same Congress who has EXEMPTED themselves -- for LIFE -- from it. That's all the proof anyone needs to know this is the biggest rip off since the Community Re-investment Act (CRA).

    Tort reform and good old fashioned competition in the health profession is the *only* way to make health care affordable and high quality to all. Get the God damned lawyers OUT of health care and costs will be reduced by 70% or more over night. There will be a lot fewer lawyers driving Lamborghinis and Ferraris around, a lot fewer buying homes in the Hamptons and on the Vineyard, but I can live with with that.



    //
  15. DaBruinz

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    They are no more clowns than yourself..

    There are a variety of factors that go into why deaths in the United States can be higher. Especially over a country like Sweden. Hell, its fallacy to assume that the reason that the deaths are lower in those countries is STRICTLY because of the health care system.

    First and foremost, I can think of all the TEEN pregnancies that go on here in the United States. Then you factor in the number of pregnancies that go occur to drug addicts and such.. I can fully understand why the numbers are higher here in the US...

    Not to mention the number of hospitals has decreased significantly here in the US. How many hospitals are there per 1000? I'd bet that in Sweden, UK, etc, the numbers are higher than here in the US.

    Looking at the straight numbers and claiming its just because of the healthcare system is just as bad as the the fear mongering..
  16. godef

    godef Rookie

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    You might've mentioned that this was in England.
  17. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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  18. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I'm still wondering why its a horrible crisis for 1 in 350 babies to be born outside of a hospital's delivery room in the United Kingdom; but its no big deal that 16% of Americans have no medical insurance at all?
  19. DarrylS

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    Tort reform is an interesting discussion, as most of the high settlements come out of state courts, can you say shopping for a easy court with high settlement history... do you want the executive branch and congress to start to mess with State's rights??? Essentially it is a state issue.. the Prez can take the lead...

    Secondly, if this president were to begin a discussion about tort reform, can you imagine the resulting uproar that he would dare to discuss the Judicial Branch of government and infrindge upon the rights of the judiciary???

    The reality is that Tort Reform, might be a good thing, but in reality it is a slippery slope with a whole lot of crap that can mess it up. Need to be mindful of unintended consequences...
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2009
  20. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey
    Just saying here ... how did prehistoric man pull it off. Part of the health care bill should be to increase the supply of midwives so more women can give birth at home.
  21. Rossmci90

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    What do you base this statement on? If you are going to claim to know exactly what's going to happen with socialised healthcare at least provide some evidence to back up your claim rather than expect us to believe you. :rolleyes:
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A good place to see the practicality of this on a local level is in Massachusetts right now. There is a serious shortage of internal medicine doctors. Some people are waiting 3-6 months to get an appointment.

    For people who do not have a regular doctor - take notice and get a regular doctor now because initially there are shortages of certain kinds of care.

    On another note ... a good time for young people to get into healthcare. While they won't get rich like some before them. They will be in great demand. Especially the general medicine type doctors for kids, adults and seniors.
  23. PatsFanInVa

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    Okay, we can't talk about Sweden. How about Singapore, Bermuda, Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, Iceland, France, Finland, Anguilla, Norway, Malta, Andorra, Czech Republic, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Israel, Slovenia, Liechtenstein, South Korea, Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Guernsey, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Jersey, Australia, Portugal, Gibralter, The United Kingdom, New Zealand, Monaco, Wallis and Fortuna, Canada, Ireland, Greece, San Marino, Taiwan, Isle of Man, Italy, or Cuba?

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

    Once again, this is not from Pravda or the National Enquirer. This is from the CIA World Fact Book.

    I understand how terribly difficult it is to compare the terrible methodological hurdles in comparing American infant mortality rates to anybody elses. After all, these rates are ours. The French no doubt have their babies in rustic cottages, the Germans in forests, and the Israelis -- mais bein sur -- in mangers.

    Or alternately, we might just have higher infant mortality than 44 different countries, in the country that spends the most per capita on health care.

    Similarly our pathetic showing in life expectancy just should not even be mentioned in the same breath as health care. What could health possible have to do with living longer? And on and on.

    Or, roll them all up together if you like. The World Health Organization ranks the US 37th overall, behind most of the European countries, Japan, Israel, and a couple of Arab nations. We may comfort ourselves that Cuba ranks 39th, so we must be doing something right, and somehow making up the infant mortality gap (which is, after all, slight). If you count a good health system to mean "slightly better than Cuba's."

    The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

    Yes, of course, it's all about the definitions and the methodology. We trail in pretty much any indicator you could come up with, except high-tech interventions. Bully. But that's just a sliver of all medicine -- albeit a highly lucrative one.

    There are always a variety of factors, terribly complicated confounding differences, blah blah blah.

    The numbers always come out the same. Study a different set of stats, and you find that we once again suck. Our health care just is not very good.

    Prevention of preventable deaths. Lifespan. Infant Mortality. By any significant measure of a health system's performance society-wide, we're doing a bad job.

    The most difficult thing about having this conversation is the predictable layers of outright denial:

    First come the anecdotes, the equivalents of which (for this nation) were simply never cherry-picked, because they make the opposite point; then the denial that the point is to scare people; then -- by necessity -- the indemnification from objective fact: Claims that no set of statistics can capture international comparisons, unless they are carefully selected to skew "our" way (or more accurately, to favor the status quo); Otherwise, factual comparisons are secretly unreliable because of this or that confounding factor; and so on, and so on.

    I can see arguments on the costs, right now, of the bill. I really can. It does make an actual impact on my worldview.

    But you're barking up the wrong tree when you go into high dudgeon when confronted by statistical evidence.

    The right-wing echo chamber operates in a fact-free bubble. Reality does not. These lies are excuses for a system that unnecessarily lets more people die. Why are you in favor of it?

    PFnV
  24. wistahpatsfan

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    That's gotta hurt, DaBruinz!
    You OK there?...Can I get you some smelling salts? How many fingers I got up?

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  26. wistahpatsfan

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    I think he sparks one up then hits the keyboard ... his fingers can't stop. :p
  28. wistahpatsfan

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  29. PatsFanInVa

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    One limitation that some may find regrettable about gubmit work is that (actually like a lot of other occupations,) we're eligible for random testing. Dunno what happens if you pop positive, but I really don't want to find out :)

    But my wife and I started talking about confounding factors, and went and got a bunch of stats, and figured out the average life-years lost to murder in the US, i.e., the number we could add to life expectancy if we had a murder rate of zero (it came out to about 4 months, enough to bring us up to the life expectancy of Bosnia-Herzogovenia.)

    But the point here isn't to make another statistical point, it's to illustrate that we are fugged up people in Washington. This kind of thing IS our drug.

    PFnV
  30. wistahpatsfan

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    Not just in Washington but in every other town and city in America. The fight isn't against one set of idealogies, but against ignorance and intellectual laziness, IMO. No one's williing to even pretend they're interested in the truth and facts. They are content to jump on one train or another without even wondering where it's going.

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