Massive Welker Conspiracy DeBunked!

[BSR]

Ivan's one of the biggest homers on this site. He's not a one player fanboy.

There is a difference. I would never accuse you of the same even though you have been explicit in siding with Welker. Ivan almost seems to be taking it personally. And this isn't some spur of the moment reaction either. Its been going on since the negotiation. Its time to let it go.

 

[Ivan]

There is a difference. I would never accuse you of the same even though you have been explicit in siding with Welker. Ivan almost seems to be taking it personally. And this isn't some spur of the moment reaction either. Its been going on since the negotiation. Its time to let it go.

I'm not the one starting these threads and making ludicrous remarks about Welker and the negotiations, I'm simply responding to them, so if people let it go then you won't hear a word from me. However when people make the exact same arguments that were proven 100% wrong last season, and claim the Patriots were negotiating in good faith when they offered him a fraction of what he is worth then I'm going to respond to it, so if you want it to stop then tell the Patriot fanboys to stop making ludicrous claims. As Deus said i am a big time supporter of this team, but that doesn't mean I am going to wash their balls when they are so obviously in the wrong. I was all for the Patriots tagging Welker to give them time to get a deal done, what i don't support and believe is actually atrocious is using the franchise tag to deny him a fair market long term deal, that's not what the tag is for and the CBA makes that perfectly clear.

When people stop trashing Welker and making idiotic remarks then I'll stop responding to them, if they continue to do so then I will respond and tell them just how far off base they are. Welker just had one of the best seasons any WR has ever had he isn't too old, too slow, a system WR, a product of Brady, easily replaced by Edelman and that their offense wouldn't miss a beat without him. Or the lunatic claim that the patriots bargained in good faith by offering him less than 17 million for two years. All of those remarks and claims are complete horsesh.t, and suggesting that I'm wrong for rebutting them is what is screwed up, not the reality of the matter, which is what I have been stating. Do i think he should get 120 million, nope, do I believe he deserves more than Santonio Holmes or Pierre Garcon, you bet your ass I do, and anyone who doesn't think he's worth that has their head on backwards.


As for Troy Brown, he's a class act and deserves to be in the Patriots HOF, however he wasn't the most productive WR in football from the age of 26 to the age of 31, Welker has been, so the comparison is ridiculous. And the people making such comparisons are the same ones who claimed Welker was going to drop off last season for the same reasons they want to use now, and those were already proven completely wrong, so if anyone needs to shut their piehole it's those making an argument already proven completely wrong.


If people want to end this then stop talking crap about one of the best players to ever play for the Patriots, then i'll stop responding to them, as long as they continue to start thread after thread on the topic, which board moderators apparently support 100%, then you can expect the other side to be heard from as well, regardless of how much you don't want to hear it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

You're talking about the wrong party.

It's not the Krafts - - it's the guy who runs the business - - Belichick.

If it were up to the Krafts, they would pay Welker what he wants, just like they did for Max Lane, Todd Rucci and every other player that worked their way into their hearts before Belichick came to town.

I'll leave the reading of the Foxboro tea leaves to those of you who know more about the arcania of Patriots' decision making than I do. The only difference between the Patriots organization and the old Kremlin is that at least the Soviet Union had a May Day parade where you could see where people were standing on the reviewing stand.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Using that logic they should get rid of Brady and go with a young QB, QB's his age don't get it done.

As with his post that's irrelevant imo, but if you want to go by produciton by age then that's what you get. Imo both Brady and Welker have 4-5 more years of playing at a high level, we'll see who is right.

Nah. I think Brady has more than earned the right to be considered in a class by himself when it comes to his potential longevity. He could indeed be an Elway who wins rings at 37 and 38 (no one else has won one past 35) or a Favre who was better than most alternatives into his 40's.

I have no idea whether he'll be playing in his 40's or whether he'll hang them up after this contract, but it's impossible to say we know one way or the other.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

T...

The disconnect many of us have with the way the team approached his situation is their unwillingness to commit to more than 3 years and $17M in the fall of 2011 after seeing him in camp following his comeback season in 2010. And the unwillingness to even commit to that after he put up a career season in 2011. Somehow preferring to commit $9.5M to one season in 2012 and face the prospect of committing to another $11.4M in 2013 or watching him simply walk away. This team currently is somewhat cavalierly carrying $17.5M in dead cap money, with more to come, for players who either haven't produced a thing here or players incapable of producing anything here going forward. Yet they were so conservative in assessing Welker they were unable or unwilling to commit to even that to secure his services for 3 more seasons. Meanwhile some of their more ardent critics are lauding the obviously inherent brilliance of this particular decision.

I take your points and admit that what you write bothers me as well. I usually end up thinking that there is more to a lot of internal Pats stuff, including the truth about some contract situations, than we will ever know until someone writes a book about it. But, in this case, that line of reasoning leaves me arguing the unknowable, so I have to say that I can't disagree with you.

 

[Ivan]

Nah. I think Brady has more than earned the right to be considered in a class by himself when it comes to his potential longevity. He could indeed be an Elway who wins rings at 37 and 38 (no one else has won one past 35) or a Favre who was better than most alternatives into his 40's.

I have no idea whether he'll be playing in his 40's or whether he'll hang them up after this contract, but it's impossible to say we know one way or the other.

Bingo.........

 

[BananaRepublican]

he wasn't the most productive WR in football from the age of 26 to the age of 31, Welker has been,

He's far from the most productive point maker at his position, and producing points is how they get paid.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

LANCE WELKER Obituary: View LANCE WELKER's Obituary by The Oklahoman

Hmmmmm

Frezo deserves leg sock thingies and some spandex workout gear!

 

[Deus Irae]

He's far from the most productive point maker at his position, and producing points is how they get paid.

There are far too many receivers who don't fall into this category for your argument to be correct.

 

[BradyManny]

No proof, obviously, but let's hope the Patriots can do better than a 40-year-old quarterback in five years.

He's still clearly in his prime. The guy, in some ways, keeps getting better as his grasp of this offense becomes even more masterful. We thought 2007 was the pinnacle, then he was the unanimous MVP in 2010. The offense was even more explosive in 2011. There's really no reason to plan for Brady's downfall at this point.

 

[WinstonSmith]

I'm not the one starting these threads and making ludicrous remarks about Welker and the negotiations, I'm simply responding to them, so if people let it go then you won't hear a word from me. However when people make the exact same arguments that were proven 100% wrong last season, and claim the Patriots were negotiating in good faith when they offered him a fraction of what he is worth then I'm going to respond to it, so if you want it to stop then tell the Patriot fanboys to stop making ludicrous claims. As Deus said i am a big time supporter of this team, but that doesn't mean I am going to wash their balls when they are so obviously in the wrong. I was all for the Patriots tagging Welker to give them time to get a deal done, what i don't support and believe is actually atrocious is using the franchise tag to deny him a fair market long term deal, that's not what the tag is for and the CBA makes that perfectly clear.

When people stop trashing Welker and making idiotic remarks then I'll stop responding to them, if they continue to do so then I will respond and tell them just how far off base they are. Welker just had one of the best seasons any WR has ever had he isn't too old, too slow, a system WR, a product of Brady, easily replaced by Edelman and that their offense wouldn't miss a beat without him. Or the lunatic claim that the patriots bargained in good faith by offering him less than 17 million for two years. All of those remarks and claims are complete horsesh.t, and suggesting that I'm wrong for rebutting them is what is screwed up, not the reality of the matter, which is what I have been stating. Do i think he should get 120 million, nope, do I believe he deserves more than Santonio Holmes or Pierre Garcon, you bet your ass I do, and anyone who doesn't think he's worth that has their head on backwards.


As for Troy Brown, he's a class act and deserves to be in the Patriots HOF, however he wasn't the most productive WR in football from the age of 26 to the age of 31, Welker has been, so the comparison is ridiculous. And the people making such comparisons are the same ones who claimed Welker was going to drop off last season for the same reasons they want to use now, and those were already proven completely wrong, so if anyone needs to shut their piehole it's those making an argument already proven completely wrong.


If people want to end this then stop talking crap about one of the best players to ever play for the Patriots, then i'll stop responding to them, as long as they continue to start thread after thread on the topic, which board moderators apparently support 100%, then you can expect the other side to be heard from as well, regardless of how much you don't want to hear it.

Whenever you go off on a Welker rant you remind me of Inigo Montoya from the Princess Bride: “Hello, My name is Ivan. You belittled my binky. Prepare to die.”

 

[BSR]

When people stop trashing Welker and making idiotic remarks then I'll stop responding to them, if they continue to do so then I will respond and tell them just how far off base they are. Welker just had one of the best seasons any WR has ever had he isn't too old, too slow, a system WR, a product of Brady, easily replaced by Edelman and that their offense wouldn't miss a beat without him. Or the lunatic claim that the patriots bargained in good faith by offering him less than 17 million for two years. All of those remarks and claims are complete horsesh.t, and suggesting that I'm wrong for rebutting them is what is screwed up, not the reality of the matter, which is what I have been stating. Do i think he should get 120 million, nope, do I believe he deserves more than Santonio Holmes or Pierre Garcon, you bet your ass I do, and anyone who doesn't think he's worth that has their head on backwards.

The point is that most, if any, aren't arguing with the same vitriol and anger in opposition to you. To call them fan boys when you are the one railing on your soapbox about the same stuff whenever Welker's name is mentioned is ironic. The bottom line is that the Patriots and Welker have a difference of opinion about the players worth, which may mean his days as a Patriot are numbered. It happens and this isn't anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Ivan]

The point is that most, if any, aren't arguing with the same vitriol and anger in opposition to you. To call them fan boys when you are the one railing on your soapbox about the same stuff whenever Welker's name is mentioned is ironic. The bottom line is that the Patriots and Welker have a difference of opinion about the players worth, which may mean his days as a Patriot are numbered. It happens and this isn't anything out of the ordinary.

Actually the people that I have been calling out have been starting threads about getting rid of Welker for 2 years, I have started none, and for that matter neither have any of the other posters who feel the same way. And while there are plenty of reasonable people who have some disagreement with me on this issue there are a whole bunch who have talked pure crap about Welker and acted as if he were just another guy who could be easily replaced, those are the "too old, too slow, too slow, system receiver, easily replaced by Edelman without the offense missing a beat" arguments that I have been referring to, as well as the idiocy about the Patriots actually negotiating in good faith, when they clearly haven't. For some reason it apparently is OK to talk that kind of crap about one of the best player's to ever play for this team, and start thread after thread about it for 2 years, but not OK to respond to it and call it out for the pure and utter bullsh.t that it is.

As for your claim that this is just a disagreement on value between the Patriots and Welker imo it is much more than that, it's about abusing the Franchise designation to deny a player a long term fair market deal they have clearly earned through their play. While I am all for the Patriots tagging Welker to get a deal that works for both done, I am completely opposed to the Patriots abusing the tag simply to deny Welker that deal and squeeze another year out of him, which is exactly what they did. The Patriots abused their leverage and scumbagged Welker, and i think that sucks, hopefully they won't try the same with Brady in a couple of years, although i'm sure many here will just say he's too old, too slow, his Madden rating has gone down, the Patriots offered him 2 for 10 million in good faith, and that converted safety Nate Ebner could easily replace him without the offense missing a beat.......................