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Massachusetts pushing the death penalty again.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by cupofjoe1962, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I heard this week that a few republicans were pushing for a death penalty
    for killing a police offcicer and for acts of terrorism.

    I am sure it will be shot down again considering the people that will be
    voting on the issue.

    I would also be willing to bet that Patrick would be against this issue.

    If Patrick get's any endosements from the Police in this election, I will be
    suprised.

    The police hated the idea of the flag holders taking away their overtime.
    It will be interesting to see who the police endorse for Govenor.

    My guess... Cahill.
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Aren't acts of terrorism the venue of the federal government??? I believe those acts are covered by federal statute...
     
  3. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    May not be fully covered and could depend on circumstances...some terrorist incidents are tried in state courts where they can get a more favorable outcome and/or a more fair trial. That happened with the DC snipers, who were tried and convicted in Virginia as opposed to over federal court or Maryland court.
     
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Great, more expense for a state that just had to slash another 600 million.

    When will people learn that the death penalty is a fiscal joke?
     
  5. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think Christy Myhouse has it as a part of his platform. Why I dont know?
     
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    The death penalty is a joke. It doesn't work as a deterrent. It costs a fortune. Killing someone wrongly can't be undone.

    Cops lives are worth no more than anyone else's. Who the hell do they think they are?
    They can't even do traffic details right, anymore. For every cop that does a good job directing traffic at a construction site, I see one who's yapping on the cell phone, shootin the shyte with one of the workers or someone who stops in the street to have a chat.

    What we need is a prison without guards, giant walls, somewhere on the North Slope of the Brooks Range in northern Alaska. Let the scum figure out their new society without women or TV - "Lord of the Flies"-style.

    Throw child molesters in there with brutal murderers.
     
  7. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    You know you gave me a great idea..... We need prisons that you think you can escape from..... Remote locations, Bear Grills style escapes. Let natural selection and rugged terrain sort it out....
     
  8. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Please explain how those two have anything to do with each other...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can call this terrorism, but what usually comes to mind with terrorism is some type of effort to destroy or harm political structure, political figure or something similar... terrorism has more to do with politics than anything else.. nor sure the DC snipers were making a political statement..

    The DC Snipers sound more like mass murderers... would that make Charles Whitman a terrorist, John Wayn Gacy a terrorist, Jeffrey Dahmer a terrorist???
     
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    According to "The Liberal Way" there is no such thing as a "terrorist" unless of course a Neo Con or a Christian kills somebody.

    If Democrats were "Waterboarding Presbytarians" liberals would be silent.

    How silent the liberals are now that their "Poster Boy" sits in the White House, during the Hated Bush Years they yowled, they sobbed, they marched in the streets with their silly little signs and banged their toy drums over The Wars, The Economy and Bush Mowing his lawn now Dead Silence but the Wars still rage the Caskets keep coming home people are still losing their homes the Muslims are still playing Soccer By The Sea down in Club Gitmo, nothing has Changed in fact things get worse by the day but the Nasty Liberal Democrats have their Charming Lip Smacking Prince thats all they want the hell with America.

    To A Liberal A Terrorist Is Not A Terrorist Unless He's A Neo Con White Baptist Bastard
     
  11. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Um, the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison. If you're applying it at the state level, it's more expensive for the state to execute people than it is to put them in jail for the rest of their lives. Financial conservatives should oppose the death penalty, but look any good hypocrite, they keep their traps shut on that one. If you want to keep budget costs down, get rid of the death penalty.

    A simple example from California:

    Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Ah, I was wondering why Obama and Holder were propping up the death penalty for KSM. More expense, of course:rolleyes:
     
  13. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    It's kind of lame of them to support the death penalty. But it's 9/11 politics, where you can throw reason out the window. It's the new Hitler.

    As a side note, I've noticed that the tactic of slowing things down has a tendency to be an effective counter to the right's hysteria tactic. One can only be hysterical for so long.
     
  14. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Then it's up to your interpretation of what it is and isn't...like I said they will try them in state courts if they believe they can get the best possible conviction for them.
     
  15. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Drop the attitude. I asked for information backing it up that you didn't provide in your claim.

    I can buy it may cost more with the automatic appeals at all levels however I question the costs of it per inmate for the five to ten year incarceration for the death row inmates vs. the cost for the additional 20, 30, 40 or more years if they are given the maximum of life in prison.
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Law lesson, you don't try federal offenses in state courts.... very simple.
     
  17. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Save the law lesson I think my point isn't fully getting through, I'll try to be clearer on this. There is often overlap and many cases the feds have a better chance at conviction with state courts than federal courts thus deferring to the state courts.

    DC sniper is one case and for other examples think back to the 1960s in the south, state cases of murder were tried in federal court for civil rights violations when state courts were blatantly biased and racist.
     
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You only try cases in federal court if there is a federal violation, take the case of mobsters or gangs, an effective way to deal with them is the federal RICO statute...prior to that it was the exclusive venue of the states, excluding things like capone who they got for tax evation etc.

    DC Sniper was tried in state courts... two states I believe...

    In the 60's the violations had to do with civil rights, and that takes precedent...

    Do not ever see a circumstance where the state would want to take on a terrrorism case, first of all as their are jurisdictional issues and they are not that well prepared for a case like that the DOJ has extensive resources.... and the experience..
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  19. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Crimes spanning across or involve going across interstate lines- federal crime. That has been the case for decades. In the case of the DC snipers they hold the right to defer to the states for the crimes within the states if there isn't double jeopardy issues. He was tried and convicted in Maryland and Virginia and was also eligible to be tried and convicted in Alabama, Louisiana, and DC for murder.

    Not from what I recall reading. They used it only because there would never be a conviction in state court.

    You are held up on the definition...by your definition the states wouldn't be able to handle or try them. What I believe you are thinking is international terrorists like the two WTC bombings, but there are acts that wouldn't be under the federal statute for terrorism unless it involved federal personnel or federal property.

    To give you an example Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols may not have been tried in federal court if they hadn't bombed a federal building killing federal employees, their act of terrorism would be under state courts if it was just any non-federal government building.
     
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Terrorism by its definition has to be a political act... can you cite an example of terrorism that was tried in a state court??? Or an act that took precedent over a federal court? There has to be an exception somewhere... but in all likelihood terrorism is the venue of the DOJ and all of its resources...

    Perhaps in the past it may have been different, but the DOJ has emerged into a very powerful force and probably is the best on all fronts to deal with these types of issues...

    Most states and their prosecutors acquiesce to the Feds as they have more resources, and federal courts do not put up with any crap... federal prosecutors have a 95%+ conviction rate...

    Two excellent examples are, Eric Rudolph and Ted Kaczinski..

    Rudolph never did anything to public property, all of his acts were against groups or individuals...

    Ted Kaczinski, sent bombs to executives of private companies...

    Both are in Florence, sentenced to life without parole... Kaczinzki tried to turn his trial into a circus, but in the end pleaded out...
     

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