Mason re-signs with the Ravens

[BradyFTW!]

That statement is absurd. What could possibly lead you to that conclusion?

I mean, sure... the Pats would never draft Branch now. They have no interest in 5'9" receivers who get open more with precise route running and short-burst quickness than w/ straight up speed. Nope. No room on the Pats for guys like that.

And I still haven't figured out how Givens couldn't play in this offense but Jabar Gaffney flourished in it.

 

[Deus Irae]

First we were totally screwed if we didn't resign Bodden. Now this team is totally screwed if the Pats don't sign TO or trade for Marshall?!? Really?!? This is the team that was one minute away from going to the Super Bowl with Reche Caldwell as their lead WR. And before you talke defense that year, Harrison was on IR, they rotated a bunch of guys in the ILB position next to Bruschi was was already slowing down. Eugen Wilson was toast as a FS. Randall Gay was a starting CB. Corey Dillon was so old that he was finish playing by the second half of most games and Maroney was injued for a large portion of the season.

This team is not going to make it or break it based on who is lining up across from Randy Moss. The WR corp is definitely an area of concern, but getting a big name is not going make this team a contender and not getting one is not going to make it a pretender. The Pats will need to fill in several areas, but Brady can make a guy like a Josh Reed a solid starting WR. It isn't guaranteed, but he has made a lot of JAGs look very good (Patten, Givens who was horrible before injuries ruined his career, Branch who wasn't a JAG but was pretty average as a #1 in Seattle).

The year is 2010. 2006 is irrelevant.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

You can forget Edelman. He will not last more than 3-4 games based on the pounding he took in the Baltimore game. He was drilled and just know that the goon squad on the Dolphins will game plan trying to injure him as they did with RB Edwards; both these guys leave themselves open to big hits.

Watch Kevin Faulk; he is the master (usually!) of avoiding the big hit; that is why he is still around except when Brady lays him out...

The WR cupboard is bare. So is the TE. Who is Brady going to throw to?

 

[Rob0729]

The year is 2010. 2006 is irrelevant.

YOu are right. With Moss and Edelman and potentially the return of Welker, this receiving corp is better than the 2006 corp before they make a move.

My point is that the 2006 team was severely flawed, possibly more flawed than the 2010 team come September and it went to the AFC Championship game and nearly won. It means it is really stupid to consider this team "screwed" because the Pats didn't fill the #2 WR position with a big name. It means it is a need going into the draft, but if Edelman can be 80-90% of Welker, it is a relative small need other than depth at the position. Adding Josh Reed would be a very good #3.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The year is 2010. 2006 is irrelevant.

The past is plenty relevant. That's how we know what works and what doesn't. That said, in 2006 we had Asante, Seymour, Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel, all of whom are better than the guys currently playing their positions (Bodden, Wright, TBC, Guyton, and whoever else we line up at OLB).

I'm not about to panic or anything, since we still have plenty of FA, the draft, and june cuts in front of us. Trying to evaluate the 2010 team right now is just pointless. But that 2006 defense definitely had strong points that the 2009 one, at least, didn't.

 

[unoriginal]

Interesting stat: Number of times released before acquisition by the Pats.

Corey Dillon: 0
Randy Moss: 0
Terrell Owens: 2

 

[Rob0729]

You can forget Edelman. He will not last more than 3-4 games based on the pounding he took in the Baltimore game. He was drilled and just know that the goon squad on the Dolphins will game plan trying to injure him as they did with RB Edwards; both these guys leave themselves open to big hits.

Watch Kevin Faulk; he is the master (usually!) of avoiding the big hit; that is why he is still around except when Brady lays him out...

The WR cupboard is bare. So is the TE. Who is Brady going to throw to?

Huh? Have you watched Welker play? He gets drilled more than any WR I have seen and he got injured untouched. Branch would get drilled quite a bit and kept going for the most part unless one of his own teammates takes out his knee by accident.

RB Edwards?!? Who are you talking about? Robert Edwards? You mean the guy who hasn't played football in a decade. There isn't a RB in the league with the last name Edwards. The only offensive players named Edwards are Braylon Edwards and Trent Edwards. Neither are RBs and to my knowledge were never injured by Miami.

 

[Rob0729]

The past is plenty relevant. That's how we know what works and what doesn't. That said, in 2006 we had Asante, Seymour, Colvin, Bruschi and Vrabel, all of whom are better than the guys currently playing their positions (Bodden, Wright, TBC, Guyton, and whoever else we line up at OLB).

I'm not about to panic or anything, since we still have plenty of FA, the draft, and june cuts in front of us. Trying to evaluate the 2010 team right now is just pointless. But that 2006 defense definitely had strong points that the 2009 one, at least, didn't.

I don't know. I would say Mayo is better than the 2006 version of Bruschi. Also, Asante wasn't a great player until the 2006 season (he only had 3 picks in 2005). There is a chance Bodden or Butler or even Wilhite or Wheatley make the Samuel type jump in 2010. I am not betting on it, but everyone's view of Asante Samuel was very different from the start of the 2006 season and the end.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I don't know. I would say Mayo is better than the 2006 version of Bruschi. Also, Asante wasn't a great player until the 2006 season (he only had 3 picks in 2005). There is a chance Bodden or Butler or even Wilhite or Wheatley make the Samuel type jump in 2010. I am not betting on it, but everyone's view of Asante Samuel was very different from the start of the 2006 season and the end.

not without a pass rush they won't

 

[Ring 6]

Huh? Have you watched Welker play? He gets drilled more than any WR I have seen and he got injured untouched. Branch would get drilled quite a bit and kept going for the most part unless one of his own teammates takes out his knee by accident.

RB Edwards?!? Who are you talking about? Robert Edwards? You mean the guy who hasn't played football in a decade. There isn't a RB in the league with the last name Edwards. The only offensive players named Edwards are Braylon Edwards and Trent Edwards. Neither are RBs and to my knowledge were never injured by Miami.

Shhhhh. We are trying to prove that the Patriots have no one to play WR and Bill Belichick doesnt even know it.
Welker is coming back from an injury so he doesnt count.
Edelman looked good as a rookie so there has to be a reason to eliminate him. Bam, he will get injured because one team will be out to injure him more than any team will be out to injure any player. Makes sense.
Tate. Well he got hurt so there is a 100% chance he will contribute nothing next year.....
Catching on?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Shhhhh. We are trying to prove that the Patriots have no one to play WR and Bill Belichick doesnt even know it.
Welker is coming back from an injury so he doesnt count.
Edelman looked good as a rookie so there has to be a reason to eliminate him. Bam, he will get injured because one team will be out to injure him more than any team will be out to injure any player. Makes sense.
Tate. Well he got hurt so there is a 100% chance he will contribute nothing next year.....
Catching on?

well....that's a novel approach

welker is indeed coming back from an injury, but the timeframe won't have him on the field until well into the regular season.......at least going by how that type of injury typically heals....there's no magic for healing ligaments...so this is very questionable for 2010
edelman does look great.....
tate? he was never that productive in college, and I'd be willing to bet his purpose was to be a special teamer. there is hope there, but he ain't the greatest route runner
and then there's moss

so as of right now, the pats can not put out a proven 3 WR set.....simple as that

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't know. I would say Mayo is better than the 2006 version of Bruschi. Also, Asante wasn't a great player until the 2006 season (he only had 3 picks in 2005). There is a chance Bodden or Butler or even Wilhite or Wheatley make the Samuel type jump in 2010. I am not betting on it, but everyone's view of Asante Samuel was very different from the start of the 2006 season and the end.

I'd definitely agree with you: I was comparing 2006 Bruschi with Guyton.

As for someone making an Asante-esque jump, if anyone does it'll be Butler, but I wouldn't count on it. I see him being a solid starting corner, and I'm totally fine with that. If we do get lucky and get more out of him, then all the better.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Huh? Have you watched Welker play? He gets drilled more than any WR I have seen and he got injured untouched. Branch would get drilled quite a bit and kept going for the most part unless one of his own teammates takes out his knee by accident.

RB Edwards?!? Who are you talking about? Robert Edwards? You mean the guy who hasn't played football in a decade. There isn't a RB in the league with the last name Edwards. The only offensive players named Edwards are Braylon Edwards and Trent Edwards. Neither are RBs and to my knowledge were never injured by Miami.

Not to mention that Edwards didn't even get injured on the field. He was playing on the beach, so it's safe to say that "leaving himself open to big hits" had all of nothing to do with it.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I'd definitely agree with you: I was comparing 2006 Bruschi with Guyton.

As for someone making an Asante-esque jump, if anyone does it'll be Butler, but I wouldn't count on it. I see him being a solid starting corner, and I'm totally fine with that. If we do get lucky and get more out of him, then all the better.

mayo still can't touch bruschi when it comes to coverage .... even in 2006

 

[patsfan-1982]

i would love to sign a big name WR just as much as any one. but they still have moss, and welker, will be back at some point. Edelman. was the #1 WR to end the year.


if brady needs 4 all pro WR's then what good is he. i mean any QB in the NFL can put points on the bord with for great WR's


brady, made he name by being able to get first downs by throwing to any one and every one. if brady can get some of that back then they will be more then fine. they will add a small name WR. to be the #3 or #4

 

[lamafist]

so since welker and branch are the same height, they are the same thing.......they don't even run close to the same routes....... and branch's gig was to find the seams behind the LB's and found them perfectly......

welker runs routes that has him catching balls thrown less than 10 yards about 90 percent of the time.......branch caught most of his passes in the 11-20 yard range......2 completely different WR's.....and yeah, branch had some pretty good straight line speed.....let me know if you want to know anything else about them

once again, a claim with no basis in reality.

As a Patriot, Branch caught 59% of his passes less than 10 yards from the line...

...and that's despite the teams' lack of a true split end (like Moss) drawing double coverage down-field and opening up the underneath for Branch. You think he'd be used the same way if he was then if he were on the Pats now?

So you'll forgive me if I pass on your offer of letting me know other stuff about them.

Meanwhile, you still haven't offered even a whiff of support for your out-of-nowhere claim that Branch and Givens wouldn't be drafted for the Pats' present scheme. You think if Belichick liked Branch enough to draft him in the 2nd round back then, he'd pass on him now because he doesn't fit into our ever-changing offensive scheme?

 

[Rob0729]

I'd definitely agree with you: I was comparing 2006 Bruschi with Guyton.

As for someone making an Asante-esque jump, if anyone does it'll be Butler, but I wouldn't count on it. I see him being a solid starting corner, and I'm totally fine with that. If we do get lucky and get more out of him, then all the better.

If you are comparing Bruschi with Gyton, who are you comparing Mayo with. Mayo and Bruschi would be the proper comparison because they were the best player playing ILB in each of those years.

Well, if Butler takes a jump to be a solid #1 CB but not near Samuel; Bodden being a very good #2 CB would even it out quite a bit.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If you are comparing Bruschi with Gyton, who are you comparing Mayo with. Mayo and Bruschi would be the proper comparison because they were the best player playing ILB in each of those years.

Well, if Butler takes a jump to be a solid #1 CB but not near Samuel; Bodden being a very good #2 CB would even it out quite a bit.

In that case, Vrabel (who was versatile and generally effective at SILB in 2006) was better than Guyton, who realistically shouldn't even be on the field on running downs. Either way, our ILBs as a unit were much better in '06 than '09.

And I'm not quite sure where you're getting #1/#2 from, for CBs. They're ambiguous terms that get thrown around all the time here, so I should clarify what I meant. Bodden is a much better CB than Butler, and that probably won't change this year. I expect Butler to be starting at CB, but as the #2 corner on the team, and I don't expect either one of them to play up to Asante's '06 level. Maybe Butler makes a major second-year leap, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I'm not saying this to trash on last year's team; I like the direction that we're headed in, and think that the defense could be pretty formidable this year. I just think that the '06 defense was a lot better than some people give it credit for.

 

[Rob0729]

In that case, Vrabel (who was versatile and generally effective at SILB in 2006) was better than Guyton, who realistically shouldn't even be on the field on running downs. Either way, our ILBs as a unit were much better in '06 than '09.

And I'm not quite sure where you're getting #1/#2 from, for CBs. They're ambiguous terms that get thrown around all the time here, so I should clarify what I meant. Bodden is a much better CB than Butler, and that probably won't change this year. I expect Butler to be starting at CB, but as the #2 corner on the team, and I don't expect either one of them to play up to Asante's level.

I just used #1 and #2 to signify best and second best. We don't know how much Butler will progress in year 2 nor how Bodden will progress in year 2 of the system. No one expected Samuel to have 10 INTs in 2006. The Pats have several defensive players who have the potential to step up to elite levels this year. None may. Two or three might. It is just too early to know for sure. Maybe with Pees gone, it allows several younger players to take off the training wheels and be more agressive. Who knows.

 

[Rob0729]

once again, a claim with no basis in reality.

As a Patriot, Branch caught 59% of his passes less than 10 yards from the line...

...and that's despite the teams' lack of a true split end (like Moss) drawing double coverage down-field and opening up the underneath for Branch. You think he'd be used the same way if he was then if he were on the Pats now?

So you'll forgive me if I pass on your offer of letting me know other stuff about them.

Meanwhile, you still haven't offered even a whiff of support for your out-of-nowhere claim that Branch and Givens wouldn't be drafted for the Pats' present scheme. You think if Belichick liked Branch enough to draft him in the 2nd round back then, he'd pass on him now because he doesn't fit into our ever-changing offensive scheme?

Well, the Pats' interest in Josh Reed tells me that they would probably still draft Branch. Reed is a poor man's Branch circa 2006. That means that Belichick still welcomes a Branch type of player to this offense.