Marvin Lewis: 'Cincy Police Profile Players'

[FreeTedWilliams]

Stupid thing for Marvin to say: his players have been actually guilty of so much crap over the past year, that you have to figure, profiling or not, they'd get caught for it eventually.

That said: he's not wrong.

Football players are large black men, often "thugged out," driving expensive cars, often through the rich neighborhoods where they can afford to hang out and live. Do you really think they're NOT getting pulled over more frequently and then -- and this is the part that really makes the situation ugly -- immediately treated as a potential perp a lot more quickly than a white guy in the same situation.

Remember last summer when Johnathan Sullivan was arrested? Remember how everybody jumped on him about it, believed every word of the cops' report, including some obvious b.s. about how he happened to see, in a dark car, a plastic bag with a "greenish substance in it" in plain sight, so he'd have just cause to search the car?

Then, remember how, months later, the story came out that Sullivan hadn't been driving recklessly, that his loud music hadn't caused any disturbances, that he was not drunk or high, and that the cop had in fact pulled him over for coming to only a rolling stop at a suburban stop sign at 2 o'clock in the morning?

While Marv should no better than to try to defend his guys, many of whom are real troublemakers, let's not pretend that "Driving While Black" isn't a common cause for being pulled over.

So let me get this right, the Cop in no way could have seen the Pot while standing next to the car, But his amazing vision allowed him to ascertain that the driver of a car whizzing past him at 2 o'clock in the morning was black!

Racial profliling is the biggest piece of crap crutch used by criminals and thier apologists, at least someone got to Marvin and made him retract his statements, maybe you should think about it too.

 

[PF1996]

I heard Marvin say that when a player is arrested for failing to use a turn signal, there's a problem with the police department. Exactly how many Bengals have been arrested for failing to use a turn signal?

Did some research and now I can answer my own question -- 1. The others have been for DWI, domestic violence etc.. There have been 14 arrests overall. Marvin has embarrased himself.

You could have saved the time spent doing your "research" by listening a few more seconds. Had you done so, (or read the article) you would have "heard" Marvin state "A PLAYER...". I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?

Actually players arrested for failing to use a turn signal - 0

What Marvin failed to explain is that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal while making a right hand turn but was "arrested" (ticket arrest) for driving on a suspended license. He was cited for the turn signal and failure to wear a seatbelt which are both civil tickets. The only criminal charge is the driving on a suspended license. Since Henry's suspension is due to a DUI you would think it would be HIS responsibility to follow the law? Not in Marvin's no responsibility world. Since Henry decided to drive while his license was suspended due to a DUI he got arrested...Marvin has a problem with that? No he has a problem with Henry getting pulled over at all..Hey Marvin if he WASN'T BREAKING THE LAW HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PULLED OVER YOU MORON!!!! It takes a real idiot to defend someone doing this....Marvin the "enabler"...

Actually Marvin did indicate that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal but let's not let facts get in the way of your Marvin bashing.

I think it is high time that this over rated HC proves the league is colorblind by being fired. He has done very little to improve his team given all the talent that has been there. I don't know why he's constantly applauded for having 8-8 seasons.

Someone should tell him that he ISN'T a Tony Dungy. He's the Black Brian Billick, his mentorm the OTHER coach in the league who consistantly does LESS with MORE.

Playing the race card is just an example of his leadship skills and shows how desperate he is to deflect responsibility of the mess he's made in Cincinatti. Driving while black IS a fact of life in this country, however IT ISN'T the problem in the 14 or so arrests that the his players incurred.

Will never understand how stating facts is "playing the race card". That said, you are quite right that Marvin's comments reflect poorly on his leadership particularly as it sends a message to players on the team that they are not accountable for their actions.

Somewhere along the line Marvin forgot one of the keys to success in any profession. The ability to take responsibility for your actions. He doesn't and neither do the players who play for him.

Nice to see a rational comment among all the hysterical ranting.

So let me get this right, the Cop in no way could have seen the Pot while standing next to the car, But his amazing vision allowed him to ascertain that the driver of a car whizzing past him at 2 o'clock in the morning was black!

Indeed, it takes "amazing vision" for an individual to "ascertain" to his satisfaction whether the driver of a car "whizzing past" him is white or a "minority"!

Racial profliling is the biggest piece of crap crutch used by criminals and thier apologists, at least someone got to Marvin and made him retract his statements, maybe you should think about it too.

Are there any other fairy tales you would like to share while you're in the mood?

 

[captain stone]

I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?

Here we go again.

"Conservatives" = racists; therefore Liberals, and Blacks = never racists.

One of the biggest lies of the last quarter-century.

Please take your "theory" to another forum.

 

[Mainefan]

All I can say is that the Bengals had better really make a run on the championship this year, and Marvin had better not make any public comments that don't have to do with football.

 

[Grizzafted]

Some of you are very ignorant. Do you read the section of newspapers that don't have pictures of people with numbers on their backs?

Cincinnati is known throughout the country as has having one of the most brutal and racist police departments. There have been numerous incidents involving their PD being involved in profiling and excessive force. In fact, the federal government itself has found that racial profiling is excessively present in the Cincinnati PD.

Marvin Lewis believes everything he said that first day, the team forced him to apologize for community relations purposes, which is bullsh*t.

Do you know how silly you sound talking about a "colorblind" society? Racism is extraordinarily prevalent in this country, still. Whether it's a police department illegally profiling black americans for traffic stops, or the sports media unfairly calling Brandon Meriweather a "thug" when if it had been a white player shooting at a cattle rustler on his father's farm he would have been called a "character," there are still serious inequalities in the American experience. Maybe you should turn off WEEI for a minute and read a book.

Or, maybe you know more about what it's like to be black than Marvin Lewis?

Just in case you're actually curious about learning something here, I'll help you out:

http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/features/police.asp

The April 2001 riots, sparked by the shooting of African-American Timothy Thomas by Officer Stephen Roach, threw the Cincinnati Police Department back into the national eye. The outcry prompted a U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division investigation that culminated in a federal agreement with both the City of Cincinnati and the Cincinnati Police Department towards the improvement of area law enforcement. Along with new publications on community policing and public relations, this Memorandum of Agreement may be viewed online or in print in the Government & Business Department. The first quarterly status report, in which the CPD’s compliance with the Memorandum is reviewed, has been posted to the CPD website with other collaborative documents. Additional information on Cincinnati Police Practices (including the Final Settlement of the U.S. District Court) is available on the ACLU’s website.

A lengthy review of racial profiling in Cincinnati by the consulting firm RAND Corporation led to the study “Police-Community Relations in Cincinnati.” This item is available only online—you’ll find a link to the title in our Catalog.

A concurrent internal investigation of Officer Roach was carried out by the Cincinnati Police Department, culminating in a report released to the public. Numerous newspaper articles tracking the riots, the investigations, the ensuing boycott, and the creation of Cincinnati CAN (Community Action Now) task force and the Citizen Complaint Authority may be searched via Newsdex. Type in “Cincinnati (City) Police Department” as the main subject heading in order to retrieve lists of articles on the CPD over the years, all of which may be read in the Magazines & Newspapers Department. More information can also be found in the RAND report, Police-Community Relations in Cincinnati. The 2004 U.S. District Court Opinion regarding the Roger Owensby Jr. investigation is available online. See also the local media’s joint archive of news stories and links online pertaining to recent developments in our community’s race relations.

Do you have any idea the burden of proof that's required for the DoJ's Civil Rights Division to initiate an investigation of an entire police department, and then issue a federal order against it? I do professional prison reform work, and I can tell you that it needs to be overwhelming. Once they come down on you, it's because you deserve it and the federal government could no longer look the other way and reasonably claim that they were unaware of how abuse the department is. It is serious business to be subject to a CRD investigation.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Mods: request a thread lock, folks can take it to the political forum.

 

[mgcolby]

You could have saved the time spent doing your "research" by listening a few more seconds. Had you done so, (or read the article) you would have "heard" Marvin state "A PLAYER...". I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?




Actually Marvin did indicate that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal but let's not let facts get in the way of your Marvin bashing.





Will never understand how stating facts is "playing the race card". That said, you are quite right that Marvin's comments reflect poorly on his leadership particularly as it sends a message to players on the team that they are not accountable for their actions.



Nice to see a rational comment among all the hysterical ranting.





Indeed, it takes "amazing vision" for an individual to "ascertain" to his satisfaction whether the driver of a car "whizzing past" him is white or a "minority"!




Are there any other fairy tales you would like to share while you're in the mood?

I will never know what we did to deserve your presence! Your genius enlightenment is truly awe inspiring.

 

[bradmahn]

Mods: request a thread lock, folks can take it to the political forum.

I completely agree, Box.

 

[Grizzafted]

Or, move the thread there.

 

[Welker83]

you're right...they do...the cincy police profile criminals...and when you build you're team with criminals this is what happens...


Marvin you are an enabler and an indiot...good day!

 

[PATSNUTme]

Some of you are very ignorant. Do you read the section of newspapers that don't have pictures of people with numbers on their backs?

Cincinnati is known throughout the country as has having one of the most brutal and racist police departments. There have been numerous incidents involving their PD being involved in profiling and excessive force. In fact, the federal government itself has found that racial profiling is excessively present in the Cincinnati PD.

Marvin Lewis believes everything he said that first day, the team forced him to apologize for community relations purposes, which is bullsh*t.

Do you know how silly you sound talking about a "colorblind" society? Racism is extraordinarily prevalent in this country, still. Whether it's a police department illegally profiling black americans for traffic stops, or the sports media unfairly calling Brandon Meriweather a "thug" when if it had been a white player shooting at a cattle rustler on his father's farm he would have been called a "character," there are still serious inequalities in the American experience. Maybe you should turn off WEEI for a minute and read a book.

Or, maybe you know more about what it's like to be black than Marvin Lewis?

Just in case you're actually curious about learning something here, I'll help you out:

http://www.cincinnatilibrary.org/features/police.asp



Do you have any idea the burden of proof that's required for the DoJ's Civil Rights Division to initiate an investigation of an entire police department, and then issue a federal order against it? I do professional prison reform work, and I can tell you that it needs to be overwhelming. Once they come down on you, it's because you deserve it and the federal government could no longer look the other way and reasonably claim that they were unaware of how abuse the department is. It is serious business to be subject to a CRD investigation.

That always get people to listen to your point of view O Enlightned One.

I know that I'm not on the same intellegence level as you but some things are common sense. Such as Marvin drafting players who have had a history of problems (not the Meriweather type) in college and have been taken off many teams draft boards.

Have you ever heard of a player being suspended in the NFL for being ticketed becasue he didn't use a turn signal? It's called probable cause. If had not been drunk or had drugs in the car, he may have just got away with a warning.

I got stopped for that a few years ago by a white cop and I'm white so he must have been profiling me. it was for not using a directional. I got a warning because I wasn't drunk, didn't have drugs, and don't have a RAP sheet a mile long.

I must represent the very ignorant because I think that Marvin is trying to make excuses for his bad judgement and the bad behavior of his players.

Did it ever cross anyones mind that many Cincy cops are Bengals fans and want the team to do well? I wonder how many times a Bengals player has been stopped and let go with just an autograph.

 

[Hoodie]

You could have saved the time spent doing your "research" by listening a few more seconds. Had you done so, (or read the article) you would have "heard" Marvin state "A PLAYER...". I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?
Actually Marvin did indicate that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal but let's not let facts get in the way of your Marvin bashing.

Actually PF1996 I am a dyed in the wool LIBERAL and damn proud of it. I also happen to be a black woman. You are a jackass and an idiot for making such judgements with little or no evidence.

Marvin is saying that all his players are being profiled by the cops and using the Chris Henry incident as evidence but in fact the majority of Cincy players who have been arrested have been arrested for a variety of dangerous crimes. If a wife or girlfriend call the cops claiming domestic violence, how is that profiling?

 

[Grizzafted]

That always get people to listen to your point of view O Enlightned One.

I know that I'm not on the same intellegence level as you but some things are common sense. Such as Marvin drafting players who have had a history of problems (not the Meriweather type) in college and have been taken off many teams draft boards.

Have you ever heard of a player being suspended in the NFL for being ticketed becasue he didn't use a turn signal? It's called probable cause. If had not been drunk or had drugs in the car, he may have just got away with a warning.

I got stopped for that a few years ago by a white cop and I'm white so he must have been profiling me. it was for not using a directional. I got a warning because I wasn't drunk, didn't have drugs, and don't have a RAP sheet a mile long.

I must represent the very ignorant because I think that Marvin is trying to make excuses for his bad judgement and the bad behavior of his players.

Did it ever cross anyones mind that many Cincy cops are Bengals fans and want the team to do well? I wonder how many times a Bengals player has been stopped and let go with just an autograph.

The opening line wasn't a great way to start; I'm a bit of a hothead sometimes. And I definitely don't think I'm smarter than anyone.

But, I want to say, I'm in no way defending the jackass Chris Henry or the other chain gang graduates that play for the Bengals. The original statement by Marvin Lewis was that Cincinnati police profile people. A lot of people seem to think that's a ridiculous assertion, when in fact, and according to a lot of documentation by a great deal of objective observers, that's exactly the case.

Edit: I also see that he was mentioning specifically that police profile his players. That undercuts what I said in my first post, I thought he was commenting more generally on race relations issues in the Cincinnati PD. Pulling over Chris Henry, provided the cop recognized him, probably isn't racial profiling as much as it is common sense and smart policing.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

You could have saved the time spent doing your "research" by listening a few more seconds. Had you done so, (or read the article) you would have "heard" Marvin state "A PLAYER...". I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?
Actually Marvin did indicate that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal but let's not let facts get in the way of your Marvin bashing.

Actually PF1996 I am a dyed in the wool LIBERAL and damn proud of it. I also happen to be a black woman. You are a jackass and an idiot for making such judgements with little or no evidence.

Marvin is saying that all his players are being profiled by the cops and using the Chris Henry incident as evidence but in fact the majority of Cincy players who have been arrested have been arrested for a variety of dangerous crimes. If a wife or girlfriend call the cops claiming domestic violence, how is that profiling?

Priceless!

 

[pats-blue]

You could have saved the time spent doing your "research" by listening a few more seconds. Had you done so, (or read the article) you would have "heard" Marvin state "A PLAYER...". I guess getting all the facts isn't particularly important for you self-righteous types. Just testing a theory - are you a "conservative"?

Actually players arrested for failing to use a turn signal - 0

What Marvin failed to explain is that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal while making a right hand turn but was "arrested" (ticket arrest) for driving on a suspended license. He was cited for the turn signal and failure to wear a seatbelt which are both civil tickets. The only criminal charge is the driving on a suspended license. Since Henry's suspension is due to a DUI you would think it would be HIS responsibility to follow the law? Not in Marvin's no responsibility world. Since Henry decided to drive while his license was suspended due to a DUI he got arrested...Marvin has a problem with that? No he has a problem with Henry getting pulled over at all..Hey Marvin if he WASN'T BREAKING THE LAW HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PULLED OVER YOU MORON!!!! It takes a real idiot to defend someone doing this....Marvin the "enabler"...

Actually Marvin did indicate that Henry was STOPPED for failing to use a turn signal but let's not let facts get in the way of your Marvin bashing.

This is the only quote of yours responding to my post so I will only answer the cherry picked quote of mine. Now read slowly as I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.. I notice how you didn't include the post I was answering which the poster wrote.

"Exactly how many Bengals have been arrested for failing to use a turn signal?

Did some research and now I can answer my own question -- 1. The others have been for DWI, domestic violence etc.. There have been 14 arrests overall. Marvin has embarrased himself."

Now I am answering this poster who read an article that did not mention the suspended license that Henry had and at NO TIME does Marvin mention that in the article I read. His statement was as follows. "but when you are arrested for, or you are pulled over for not putting on your turn signal, there's something wrong there." Seems he said BOTH. But don't let FACTS stand in your way of trying to claim moral superiority again. Just another typical post from you short on facts, long on stupid comments and accusations.




Will never understand how stating facts is "playing the race card". That said, you are quite right that Marvin's comments reflect poorly on his leadership particularly as it sends a message to players on the team that they are not accountable for their actions.



Nice to see a rational comment among all the hysterical ranting.





Indeed, it takes "amazing vision" for an individual to "ascertain" to his satisfaction whether the driver of a car "whizzing past" him is white or a "minority"!




Are there any other fairy tales you would like to share while you're in the mood?

Yeah here is a fairy tale, you are a rational poster.....

 

[PF1996]

Actually PF1996 I am a dyed in the wool LIBERAL and damn proud of it. I also happen to be a black woman. You are a jackass and an idiot for making such judgements with little or no evidence.

Thanks for answering my question, well, at least as it regards your political persuasion. Don't know why you felt the need to mention your race or sex since I never asked you about either. Is there a prize or some other benefit for being a Patriot fan who also "happens to be a black woman"? Oh well, congrats...I guess,

Almost forgot....what "judgements" did I make "with little or no evidence"?

Marvin is saying that all his players are being profiled by the cops and using the Chris Henry incident as evidence but in fact the majority of Cincy players who have been arrested have been arrested for a variety of dangerous crimes. If a wife or girlfriend call the cops claiming domestic violence, how is that profiling?

The fact that "the majority of Cincy players who have been arrested have been arrested for a variety of dangerous crimes" [or using the typical definition, "common crimes"] doesn't at all contradict the claim that Cincinnati cops pull individuals over on the basis of race. Particulary since you have not demonstrated that you know the percentage of stops of black drivers that result in arrests and convictions. Perhaps if you were an adult you would be able to understand that the assumed criminality of those Bengals players is not evidence that the police do not racially profile or that those particular players were not racially profiled. The fact that the majority of the arrests were not "wive/girlfriend calling cops" as you imply but rather traffic incidents is another point in Marvin's favour. Doesn't mean Marvin is correct but nothing that you have posted or anything else that has been posted demonstrates that Marvin's statements about racial profiling are categorically false.

 

[Hoodie]

Thanks for answering my question, well, at least as it regards your political persuasion. Don't know why you felt the need to mention your race or sex since I never asked you about either. Is there a prize or some other benefit for being a Patriot fan who also "happens to be a black woman"? Oh well, congrats...I guess,

Almost forgot....what "judgements" did I make "with little or no evidence"?




The fact that "the majority of Cincy players who have been arrested have been arrested for a variety of dangerous crimes" [or using the typical definition, "common crimes"] doesn't at all contradict the claim that Cincinnati cops pull individuals over on the basis of race. Particulary since you have not demonstrated that you know the percentage of stops of black drivers that result in arrests and convictions. Perhaps if you were an adult you would be able to understand that the assumed criminality of those Bengals players is not evidence that the police do not racially profile or that those particular players were not racially profiled. The fact that the majority of the arrests were not "wive/girlfriend calling cops" as you imply but rather traffic incidents is another point in Marvin's favour. Doesn't mean Marvin is correct but nothing that you have posted or anything else that has been posted demonstrates that Marvin's statements about racial profiling are categorically false.

I felt the need to clarify who I am (which includes my race, my sex, political perusasian and apparently my adulthood) because you insinuated that I was conservative and therefore racist because I believe that Marvin has embarrased himself by blaming the Cincy police for the large number of arrests of his players. In fact, I do believe that in many cities across the country the police use racial profiling a reason for stopping black motorists. However, I don't agree with Marvin (or you) that his players are being racially profiled by the police because the majority of them have not been arrested for traffic violations but rather, as you say "common crimes", though that does not make them less violent or dangerous to the general public. I don't need to know the statistics of racial profiling in Cincinnati to know that Marvin is making excuses for the bad behavior of his players.

 

[Fencer]

Stupid thing for Marvin to say: his players have been actually guilty of so much crap over the past year, that you have to figure, profiling or not, they'd get caught for it eventually.

That said: he's not wrong.

Football players are large black men, often "thugged out," driving expensive cars, often through the rich neighborhoods where they can afford to hang out and live. Do you really think they're NOT getting pulled over more frequently and then -- and this is the part that really makes the situation ugly -- immediately treated as a potential perp a lot more quickly than a white guy in the same situation.

Remember last summer when Johnathan Sullivan was arrested? Remember how everybody jumped on him about it, believed every word of the cops' report, including some obvious b.s. about how he happened to see, in a dark car, a plastic bag with a "greenish substance in it" in plain sight, so he'd have just cause to search the car?

Then, remember how, months later, the story came out that Sullivan hadn't been driving recklessly, that his loud music hadn't caused any disturbances, that he was not drunk or high, and that the cop had in fact pulled him over for coming to only a rolling stop at a suburban stop sign at 2 o'clock in the morning?

While Marv should no better than to try to defend his guys, many of whom are real troublemakers, let's not pretend that "Driving While Black" isn't a common cause for being pulled over.

Oh, thank you for posting that!

Saves me the trouble of saying the same thing.

 

[patfanken]

Thanks for a very healthy discussion in this thread. If I had to do a summary, it would be this. Cincinatti's police force's policies are legitimately questionable. "Driving while Black", is a sad truth, and "racial profiling" sadly exists for whatever reasons.

However Marvin Lewis's remarks smack of passing the buck, and making excuses for the many poor choices and bad leadership he's exhibited in his time as the Bengals HC.

Few coaches in the league have done LESS with MORE than Lewis. It is somewhat ironic that HIS MENTOR, Brian Billick, is ALSO one of those few HC's who CONSISTANTLY underacheive, yet STILL has a job.

Perhaps a better way to gauge the color blind nature of the NFL, would be to judge Marvin Lewis on the results on the field, rather than give him a pass because of the color of his skin

 

[tuckeverlasting]

unfortunately, marvin lewis is increasing profiling by being a bad black head coach.