Marvin Lewis: Belichick is too smart to go after Ochocinco

[Dozer]

Hate to break it to you all, but Chad is not as good as he makes himself out to be. The man is a marketing genius, his fb skills have diminished and T.O. is just a plain jerk. No thank you to yesterday's trash.

I thought you meant his Facebook skills have diminished at first glance. that should tell you all you need to know about him at this point. BB loves him, but probaby from a distance only.

 

[denverpatsfan]

He is changing his name back to Johnson. Obviously straightening things up before he comes here to be a Patriot. Sign him the f up! An improvement over Tate!

 

[DW Toys]

He is changing his name back to Johnson. Obviously straightening things up before he comes here to be a Patriot. Sign him the f up! An improvement over Tate!

BB knows the deal on Chad. If he sees he can contribute, fine by me. I think Chad loves to play football. He is passionate but still likes to have fun. You have to love the game to play for BB. I believe that qualifies Chad and yes, Tate has not shown he is ready to rise and TB does NOT trust him. A broken play here or there still does not make him more than a #4 WR who perhaps Price will beat out for more playing time. He was not known for his WR skills at UNC. We expect too much from Tate.

If no one in this draft class looks like a NFL WR later on and the FA class is too expensive, Chad should be fairly inexpensive to get. He is bigger than Tate and will give Price a little more time to develop. Sign him for two with a keep your yap shut clause!

67 receptions and over 12ypc from a #2 WR who is bigger 6' 1" and younger than Branch, he will see many throws from TB. He will try to block (except Sugar Ray Lewis:
YouTube - Chad Johnson blocks Ray).

He is as fast as Branch (4.45 to Branch 4.47) and runs excellent routes. Why not? Anyone to take the pressure of of Welker. Branch did not command Moss attention. I say Chad and Welker would work well together and Welker will be better with him (and maybe a future comedy team).
DW Toys

 

[goheels22002]

He is changing his name back to Johnson. Obviously straightening things up before he comes here to be a Patriot. Sign him the f up! An improvement over Tate!

Wrong. Brandon Tate had a more productive 1st season than Ochocinco.

Chad Ochocinco Year 1 (2nd Round 2001 Draft Pick - one pick after Alge Crumpler!)

12 Games - 3 Starts - 28 receptions - 329 yards - 1 TD - 0 Kick returns

Brandon Tate Year 1 (age 24) (3rd Round 2009 Draft Pick - one pick ahead of the Steelers' Mike Wallace)

16 Games - 10 Starts - 24 receptions - 432 yds - 3 TDs - 41 Kicks returned for 1,057 yards - 2 TDs

Brandon Tate is off to a good start and was a terrific gamble by the Patriots coming off major knee surgery after his senior year in college.

Ochocinco - at age 31 - finished 2010 31st on the receiving list with 832 yards on 67 catches. By comparison, old friend Jabbar Gaffney caught 65 passes for 875 yards.

Signing Ochocinco makes the Patriots older and slower - not the direction this team is going.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wrong. Brandon Tate had a more productive 1st season than Ochocinco.

Chad Ochocinco Year 1 (2nd Round 2001 Draft Pick - one pick after Alge Crumpler!)

12 Games - 3 Starts - 28 receptions - 329 yards - 1 TD - 0 Kick returns

Brandon Tate Year 1 (age 24) (3rd Round 2009 Draft Pick - one pick ahead of the Steelers' Mike Wallace)

16 Games - 10 Starts - 24 receptions - 432 yds - 3 TDs - 41 Kicks returned for 1,057 yards - 2 TDs

Brandon Tate is off to a good start and was a terrific gamble by the Patriots coming off major knee surgery after his senior year in college.

Ochocinco - at age 31 - finished 2010 31st on the receiving list with 832 yards on 67 catches. By comparison, old friend Jabbar Gaffney caught 65 passes for 875 yards.

Signing Ochocinco makes the Patriots older and slower - not the direction this team is going.

Brandon Tate's first season consisted of 2 games played, 1 start, and 0 receptions.

 

[goheels22002]

Brandon Tate's first season consisted of 2 games played, 1 start, and 0 receptions.

DI - Good to see you're awake!

Tate missed all the training camps in 2009 and started 2009-10 on PUP with knee rehab, came back, strained knee and they shut him down. If you'd like, I'll edit my previous post to first FULL SEASON. You get the point. Over 1,000 return yards to go with his production at WR in his first FULL season along with a couple of great catches is promising.

So do you agree with the previous caller that Ochocinco is an upgrade in 2011-12 and beyond over Tate?

 

[JackBauer]

Brandon Tate's first season consisted of 2 games played, 1 start, and 0 receptions.

That's a bit nitty, don't you think?

 

[Deus Irae]

DI - Good to see you're awake!

Tate missed all the training camps in 2009 and started 2009-10 on PUP with knee rehab, came back, strained knee and they shut him down. If you'd like, I'll edit my previous post to first FULL SEASON. You get the point. Over 1,000 return yards to go with his production at WR in his first FULL season along with a couple of great catches is promising.

So do you agree with the previous caller that Ochocinco is an upgrade in 2011-12 and beyond over Tate?

I wouldn't be able to say. It really depends upon the reasons behind Johnson's (2 down years in the last 3), whether those reasons will force a continuing decline, and whether Tate can step it up. Also, I don't give a whit about Tate's abilities as a return man if he can't earn a spot on the team as a receiver.

As fans, we really need training camp and exhibition games to get any sort of read on that. The coaches would have hard data (40 time, etc...) and all the OTA information to help with that evaluation.

That's a bit nitty, don't you think?

Not when someone is trying to make the comparison to favor Tate. If you're using the "injured season" argument to justify keeping the guy around, it makes sense. Once you start using a "first season" comparison with guys who had the experience of a shortened season, and without long careers to even things out, you're unbalancing the playing field.

 

[JackBauer]

Not when someone is trying to make the comparison to favor Tate. If you're using the "injured season" argument to justify keeping the guy around, it makes sense. Once you start using a "first season" comparison with guys who had the experience of a shortened season, and without long careers to even things out, you're unbalancing the playing field.

Fair enough.

 

[Froob]

Let him come and compete in camp. If he's better than Tate he'll start over him. I'd love to see Tate break out. But if he doesn't pats will have Chad to make some plays. Really a win-win situation for the pats if they get chad cheap. Plus, he could do some really obnoxious celebrations in the endzone when the pats are killin' the jets .

 

[DarrylStingley]

My view is that Tate had an excellent chance to make his mark this year and utterly failed. He was the third WR in an offense that needed a deep threat. That Tom threw him so few balls and that he caught so few balls indicates to me that he is not a very good route runner and that he's just not open all that often. Now he's fast and good on end arounds, but that has its limits.

And, while it's unrelated to WR play, his kickoffs just sucked after the first several games. And that was very odd.

Chad Whatever, on the other hand, strikes me as a veteran receiver who could work very well with Brady. I'd be more than OK with the Pats giving him a $2 mm deal or something like that and seeing how it worked out.

I'd also like to see some more of Taylor Price. And Edelman.

Open season in TC.

But yeah, I like the idea of Chad Johnson in this mix, and Brandon Tate's presence doesn't make me all that warm and fuzzy.

 

[TheComeback]

My view is that Tate had an excellent chance to make his mark this year and utterly failed. He was the third WR in an offense that needed a deep threat. That Tom threw him so few balls and that he caught so few balls indicates to me that he is not a very good route runner and that he's just not open all that often. Now he's fast and good on end arounds, but that has its limits.

And, while it's unrelated to WR play, his kickoffs just sucked after the first several games. And that was very odd.

Chad Whatever, on the other hand, strikes me as a veteran receiver who could work very well with Brady. I'd be more than OK with the Pats giving him a $2 mm deal or something like that and seeing how it worked out.

I'd also like to see some more of Taylor Price. And Edelman.

Open season in TC.

But yeah, I like the idea of Chad Johnson in this mix, and Brandon Tate's presence doesn't make me all that warm and fuzzy.

That's a bit harsh for a kid who tore his ACL before he was drafted and really didn't play last year. It's premature to give up on him already.

Obviously we need to look at getting another outside receiver who can help us immediately, but it's a little ridiculous to write Tate off this early in his career. Especially given his situation.

I'm not sure we necessarily have to focus on getting a deep threat. It seems more important to me to get a bigger, more physical receiver who can beat press coverage and run outside routes as well as win jump balls, like a Marques Colston or Larry Fitzgerald. Speed would be a plus, but getting off the line and making plays on the outside strikes me as a more important piece of the puzzle to look at.

 

[sly24]

67 receptions and over 12ypc from a #2 WR who is bigger 6' 1" and younger than Branch, he will see many throws from TB. He will try to block (except Sugar Ray Lewis:
YouTube - Chad Johnson blocks Ray).

Actually Deion is a year younger than Chad.

 

[DarrylStingley]

That's a bit harsh for a kid who tore his ACL before he was drafted and really didn't play last year. It's premature to give up on him already.

I hope you're right but Brady seems to click with receivers or he doesn't. Name one guy who started slowly in NE and who ultimately made it with Tom. Just one.

Maybe David Givens started slowly but I don't think so. Too lazy to look it up.

Aaron Hernandez and Gronk were rookies who he immediately hit it off with. Many catches. Deion Branch. Edelman to a lesser degree.

And many vets have come in and washed out because they couldn't run great routes. Hayes, Galloway, Gabriel. Chad Jackson was a rookie who could not get on the same page with Tom. Bethel, too.

Color me very pessimistic about Tate.

And please, color me that I am wrong and you are right.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I hope you're right but Brady seems to click with receivers or he doesn't. Name one guy who started slowly in NE and who ultimately made it with Tom. Just one.

Maybe David Givens started slowly but I don't think so. Too lazy to look it up.

Aaron Hernandez and Gronk were rookies who he immediately hit it off with. Many catches. Deion Branch. Edelman to a lesser degree.

And many vets have come in and washed out because they couldn't run great routes. Hayes, Galloway, Gabriel. Chad Jackson was a rookie who could not get on the same page with Tom. Bethel, too.

Color me very pessimistic about Tate.

And please, color me that I am wrong and you are right.

Givens had 9 catches in 12 games his rookie season, and 34 in 13 the next before catching 50+ balls his last two seasons in NE.

Jabar Gaffney is another example. He caught 11 passes his first season in NE before 30+ his last two, including some big playoff games.

But for the most part, you're right. Guys generally click with Brady. But lets not forget that while Tate may have been the #3 WR, he was really the 6th option in the passing game behind Wes, Twiggy, the TEs and Woody. In that context, 24 catches for 432 yards and 3 TDs is pretty decent.

The Colts led the league in passing yards. Their #6 target was Blair White, who caught 36 passes for 355 yards and 5 TDs.

The Chargers were 2nd in passing yards. Their #6 target was Legedu Naanee, who caught 23 passes for 371 yards and 1 TD.

The Saints were 3rd in passing yards. Their #6 target was Devery Henderson, who caught 34 passes for 464 yards and 1 TD.

So Tate's production wasn't really that poor considering his role in the passing game. He obviously struggled at times, but I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

Givens had 9 catches in 12 games his rookie season, and 34 in 13 the next before catching 50+ balls his last two seasons in NE.

Jabar Gaffney is another example. He caught 11 passes his first season in NE before 30+ his last two, including some big playoff games.

But for the most part, you're right. Guys generally click with Brady. But lets not forget that while Tate may have been the #3 WR, he was really the 6th option in the passing game behind Wes, Twiggy, the TEs and Woody. In that context, 24 catches for 432 yards and 3 TDs is pretty decent.

The Colts led the league in passing yards. Their #6 target was Blair White, who caught 36 passes for 355 yards and 5 TDs.

The Chargers were 2nd in passing yards. Their #6 target was Legedu Naanee, who caught 23 passes for 371 yards and 1 TD.

The Saints were 3rd in passing yards. Their #6 target was Devery Henderson, who caught 34 passes for 464 yards and 1 TD.

So Tate's production wasn't really that poor considering his role in the passing game. He obviously struggled at times, but I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.

If Tate had performed better, he'd have been a higher option. His production was lousy. He needs to improve significantly.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

If Tate had performed better, he'd have been a higher option. His production was lousy. He needs to improve significantly.

I would like to see more out of Tate, and I hope he's going to improve.

But even if Tate played better, then there would just be complaints about someone else. If Tate became the #2 WR, there would be non-stop complaints about Welker being washed-up or Branch being a wasted trade. If he played so well we used more 3 WR sets, then there would be complaints about Gronk regressing or Hernandez smoking too much pot.

There are only so many passes to go around. There's no shame in being behind the guys he is, but it's also clear he hasn't fully earned Brady's trust. That's what really disappoints me. But again, not ready to give up on him just yet. And definitely would prefer him over Ochocinco/Johnson.

 

[goheels22002]

I wouldn't be able to say. It really depends upon the reasons behind Johnson's (2 down years in the last 3), whether those reasons will force a continuing decline, and whether Tate can step it up. Also, I don't give a whit about Tate's abilities as a return man if he can't earn a spot on the team as a receiver.

As fans, we really need training camp and exhibition games to get any sort of read on that. The coaches would have hard data (40 time, etc...) and all the OTA information to help with that evaluation.

Not when someone is trying to make the comparison to favor Tate. If you're using the "injured season" argument to justify keeping the guy around, it makes sense. Once you start using a "first season" comparison with guys who had the experience of a shortened season, and without long careers to even things out, you're unbalancing the playing field.

The Pats drafted him as damaged goods based on his talent and knew year 1 would be non-productive. On the "not giving a whit" about returning kicks, if there is one thing we know about the Pats is that guys must be able to do multiple things in different phases of the game and Tate provides that. Ochocinco does not. Tate's average in the kicking game was 25.8 yards per touch. Tate is a multi-dimensional guy about to embark on his second FULL season the NFL.

Ochocinco is less of a fit for the Pats over a 16 game season and the playoffs since he doesn't bring any added dimension than as a receiver. LB Mike Vrabel is a better pickup as a 10+ year veteran who brings the goods in the passing game and isn't too bad on defense and onsides kicks. Ochocinco is cartoon character compared to the multidimensional the Patriots have built their success on.

The Pats are competitive in the kicking game and groom a bunch of guys - WRs, RBs and DBs -to share the kick return duties and the special teams do not rely on that one guy to catch the ball and know when to take off a and when to fair catch or take a knee.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Pats drafted him as damaged goods based on his talent and knew year 1 would be non-productive. On the "not giving a whit" about returning kicks, if there is one thing we know about the Pats is that guys must be able to do multiple things in different phases of the game and Tate provides that. Ochocinco does not. Tate's average in the kicking game was 25.8 yards per touch. Tate is a multi-dimensional guy about to embark on his second FULL season the NFL.

Ochocinco is less of a fit for the Pats over a 16 game season and the playoffs since he doesn't bring any added dimension than as a receiver. LB Mike Vrabel is a better pickup as a 10+ year veteran who brings the goods in the passing game and isn't too bad on defense and onsides kicks. Ochocinco is cartoon character compared to the multidimensional the Patriots have built their success on.

The Pats are competitive in the kicking game and groom a bunch of guys - WRs, RBs and DBs -to share the kick return duties and the special teams do not rely on that one guy to catch the ball and know when to take off a and when to fair catch or take a knee.

The team has people besides Tate to return kicks, if needed. If the man who's supposed to be your 2nd outside wide receiver can't get it done as a receiver, he can be Devin Hester on kicks and it's not going to help the QB complete a pass.

 

[DarrylStingley]

But even if Tate played better, then there would just be complaints about someone else. If Tate became the #2 WR, there would be non-stop complaints about Welker being washed-up or Branch being a wasted trade. If he played so well we used more 3 WR sets, then there would be complaints about Gronk regressing or Hernandez smoking too much pot.

There are only so many passes to go around. There's no shame in being behind the guys he is, but it's also clear he hasn't fully earned Brady's trust. That's what really disappoints me. But again, not ready to give up on him just yet. And definitely would prefer him over Ochocinco/Johnson.

There are only so many balls to go around but how many times did you look up and see Tate covered? Or Brady trying to hit him but not being able to because there was just no daylight. It happened a lot.

Brady tried to go deep to Tate in the playoff game and there was just no separation.

I dunno, I see a lot of Bethel/Jackson in this guy. He just doesn't seem to have enough between the ears to be a Brady favorite a la Troy/Patten/Branch/Givens/the two TEs.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.