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Martin Luther King

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not everything is literal, many ideas start with grandiose plans.. see mission statements, this movement was about getting poor people involved in their government for positive change.. it continues today.. and it has morphed into other agencies i.e. Children's Defense Fund et al.

    Does any agency start off with one idea, and through time it becomes refined and more in tune to the needs of the group and norms of society?? It happens all the time, so to take something that was said at the onset of this movement and believe that was the end is incorrect..

    The mission of the people's campaign..

    POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN - MISSION STATEMENT

    He was not the only one advocating for this, RFK comes to mind.. once again poor folks in the south, had no schools, were living in shacks and minimal nutrition..the poverty they are referring to was the worse of the worse.. not sure if you can comprehend any of how bad it was...

    There was a continual effort by the government to discredit him, for example that cross dresser J. Edgar viewed him as a communist (Joe McCarthy left a continuing legacy).. he was none of that, but clandestine smear campaigns were believed by a few folks as they are today..

    Conversation is welcome, but it can be better if you are relying less on Wiki articles and more on facts...
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You know that Clinton completely changed welfare in 1996, you need to review you history once again..

    Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    the highlights of this act are:

    *Ending welfare as an entitlement program;

    *Requiring recipients to begin working after two years of receiving benefits;

    *Placing a lifetime limit of five years on benefits paid by federal funds;

    *Aiming to encourage two-parent families and discouraging out-of-wedlock births.

    *Enhancing enforcement of child support.

    Holy shyt I did not know this.. the dems are not all bad and are not about giving stuff away...
     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    There you have folks....I've been saying this for weeks and now we have proof that phokus is OBSESSED......

    OBSESSED​


    with pro-radicalism, anti-capitalism and anti-republicanism. He has zero ability to rationalize the fact that America is full of differing opinions on everything and that for the rest of his life, majority and mainstreamism WILL win.

    As a great American lyricists Gil Scott Heron once wrote;

    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised​


    You will not be able to stay home, brother.
    You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
    You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,
    Skip out for beer during commercials,
    Because the revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be televised.
    The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox
    In 4 parts without commercial interruptions.
    The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon
    blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John
    Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat
    hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be brought to you by the
    Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie
    Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia.
    The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal.
    The revolution will not get rid of the nubs.
    The revolution will not make you look five pounds
    thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

    There will be no pictures of you and Willie May
    pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
    or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance.
    NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
    or report from 29 districts.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
    brothers in the instant replay.
    There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
    brothers in the instant replay.
    There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being
    run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process.
    There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy
    Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and
    Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving
    For just the proper occasion.

    Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville
    Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and
    women will not care if Dick finally gets down with
    Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people
    will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock
    news and no pictures of hairy armed women
    liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose.
    The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb,
    Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom
    Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be right back after a message
    bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
    You will not have to worry about a dove in your
    bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.
    The revolution will not go better with Coke.
    The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
    The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.

    The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,
    will not be televised, will not be televised.
    The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
    The revolution will be live.

    He was wrong because there will be no revolution.
     
  4. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Of course you're assuming i liked Clinton... i do not actually. He was our most right-wing president (in a way even more so than Bush) since Reagan. He gut welfare, gave us NAFTA, AND he deregulated wall street. If you're looking for a Clinton sympathizer, you're barking up the wrong tree.
     
  5. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    No, calling for the end of capitalism and asking the government for a minimum annual income and guaranteed employment is the very definition of 'literal'.

    And you greatly underestimate poverty today. Thanks in a large part to globalization (which, BTW, i blame Clinton a lot for). I'll see if i have the link at home, but there was a recent study done showing that, adjusted for inflation, that our previous generation was better off 30 years ago than today. The median worker earns less, adjusted for inflation, than their fathers did 30 years ago and the wage gap between rich and poor is MUCH MUCH larger.
     
  6. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Also, it's cute how people who use all caps and extra large fonts call me 'obsessed'.

    Glenn Beck much?
     
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not praising King, King spoke of Lovey Dovey Wright speaks of Hate and Racism all I was doing was pointing out the differences between the two, I would put neither man on a pedastel, and as I said "Bill Cosby makes more sense in one sentence than the other two do in hours of their rambling speeches but of course I'm skating on thin ice here, if one dares to question MLK one could be banished from all humanity, could one not?
     
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    We all pray that you get the help you need.
     
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Is there a way we can focus on the subject instead of focusing on Phokus?
     
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IMO MLK became more of a symbol and mythical figure the specifics of his politics were almost irrelevant to this. He was defined by his campaigns for civil (voting) rights and his "I Have a Dream" speech.

    He was moving into new areas and many of his economic initiatives do look a lot like socialism, however at the time there was a great deal of job discrimination against Black people. He was assassinated before his full program got off the ground and into people's consciousness. We will never know where this would have gone.


    People buy into the mythical figure he has become the specifics aren't really important to 99% of people. So will as always try to count the number of angels who can fit on the head of a pin and miss the real point entirely.
     
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    There's a part of this I agree with, 13, but only on an impartial basis. I often wonder what assassins think they're doing when they assassinate someone that people love and respect. Most people, even the really good ones, if left alone long enough, burn out soon enough. They say the wrong thing, they do the wrong thing, they don't live up to the unrealistic expectations that their admirers hold for them. However, when you take them out of the equation before their time - they are forever immortalized as heroes, martyrs of (possibly) mythical proportions.

    (This is not to say that King, or the Kennedy brothers, or Lincoln or anyone else whose life was cut short would not have actually fullfilled all their hopes and dreams - I'd like to think they would have, myself - but this is to say, we don't know. We can't know and we'll never know.)

    Shakespeare once said, "The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft' interred with their bones," but I think, in cases where popular and beloved figures are abruptly and violently killed, it works the other way around. No one wants to speak ill of the dead - much bad stuff is forgotten in the shock and sorrow of a young man suddenly made dead at the hands of a madman.

    No one knows what King would have gone on to do. I happen to feel he did great things while he was living - wonderful, far reaching, long lasting things. Nothing will ever take that away from him. But, the truth is, that's my feeling - and there's nothing other than trust, hope and faith in the man himself to back that feeling up. I also think he would have continued to do so, but again, that's just me and my opinion. If you have another one, and you hint that you do, it might be good for you to share that with us.

    By causing his death so young and so tragically, James Earl Ray virtually assured King of a place not only in history (which he would have gotten all by himself, of course) but in the hearts of virtually all Americans - a place he might not have gotten if he had not been gunned down prematurely. There were alot of people who didn't like King or what he was working to achieve - but his death effectively silenced them all. Who dares speak ill of the murdered?

    Yes, he had some ideas about socialism and weath distribution which are contrary to popular American sentiment - but who really remembers that? Who really dares to trot that out? And who knows where they would have gone?

    I'm not sure if that was the "real point" you think we've missed entirely or if you had something even more sinister in mind. I also don't know what "specifics" you think we find unimportant.

    Maybe you'd care to elaborate for us?
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So symbolic he lasted for 13 years, was on the news about every nite.. never viewed him as mythical, to those of us who bore witness he is very real, in fact much of what is written sells him very short.. take some time and read more than one article on him, he was a tireless warrior for the poor..
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But you said something about liberals love welfare or other some such nonsense.. all the while one of the greatest liberals completely changed it.. and blew a whole in another talking point.
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do not underestimate poverty at all.. there is an an improvement, but it was nothing like MLK and RFK were trying to address...

    Your figures may be true or just anecdotal, but without regard on the other end of the spectrum the rich are getting richer and the poor are "less poor" but still poor...
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am speaking AFTER HIS DEATH. Sorry to confuse you.
     
  16. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The reason why MLK was defined by his "I have a dream" speech and not his speeches on socialism and anti-war rhetoric was because the media and schools have completely whitewashed his memory.

    Think about it. Publicly claim that you're against racism, and people would say, 'big ******* deal, everyone's against racism'. Even racists are usually too afraid to be overtly racist.

    But claim you're a socialist? Publicly say that America will feel God's wrath and fury because of it's action in what you believe is an unjust war? Prepare to be torn apart. After all, conservatives claim that we're a center-right country, right?

    Lets be honest here, if King was not assassinated and were still living today, he wouldn't have been half the heroic figure he is today. Even conservatives, in a roundabout way, say this (i've heard LOTS of conservatives say that JFK is the most overrated president/didn't do anything and the only reason he's beloved was because he was assassinated).

    If King were alive today? If you were honest about it, he would be reviled along the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. King was a radical leftist and a subversive against the oppressive establishment. People can lie and whitewash his memory all they want, but that's the God's honest truth.
     
  17. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Clinton was anything but a liberal. He was a neo-liberal like Reagan in a lot of respects.
     
  18. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    No, the poor are poorer. The rich have benefited tremendously from globalization, but the results haven't 'trickled down' to the middle class and working class (at least we debunked that piece of **** trickle down economics 'theory'). During the mid 2000's median wages remained stagnant (edit: actually wages went DOWN in the 2000's) for the median income earner
    Here's the study:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...your-dad-had-better-than-you.html#post1779127
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is some truth in what you say, but he was killed and so woulda coulda shoulda don't matter.

    However he was never a race hustler like Sharpton or Jackson.
     
  20. Phokus

    Phokus Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    So you basically admit that the only reason a large portion of this country even gives a **** about MLK was because a) "I have a dream" and more importantly b) he was killed. We're kinda in agreement here.

    MLK is almost like a pre-emptive 'i'm not racist, my best friend is black!' for conservatives. But more disgustingly, conservatives claim MLK as their own, ideologically speaking. THAT is the biggest problem i have with conservatives and their love of MLK.

    http://blackmenformccain.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/nbra-orangeburg-2b-web.jpg
     

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