Market value of Patriots staffers

[PromisedLand]

• Nick Saban flamed out in Miami.
• Romeo is on life support in Cleveland.
• Even Charlie Weis, as a college coach, is taking hits for not having beaten a top team (and as I write this ND is losing to LSU 14-0).

Eric Mangini has certainly been a big success in his first year with the Jets, but is the market bubble for Belichick associates about to burst?

Certainly the assumption that any of Belichick's lieutenants are automatic winners as NFL head coaches had to have taken a hit lately. Yes, Mangini may be a Mangenious, but buying BB is as much of a crapshoot as buying any other coaching candidate. Will perception follow reality? Will the NFL GM's and owners stop salivating at the thought of stealing someone, anyone, from BB's staff?

Hopefully so. What do you think?

 

[Flying Fungi]

• Nick Saban flamed out in Miami.
• Romeo is on life support in Cleveland.
• Even Charlie Weis, as a college coach, is taking hits for not having beaten a top team (and as I write this ND is losing to LSU 14-0).

Eric Mangini has certainly been a big success in his first year with the Jets, but is the market bubble for Belichick associates about to burst?

Certainly the assumption that any of Belichick's lieutenants are automatic winners as NFL head coaches had to have taken a hit lately. Yes, Mangini may be a Mangenious, but buying BB is as much of a crapshoot as buying any other coaching candidate. Will perception follow reality? Will the NFL GM's and owners stop salivating at the thought of stealing someone, anyone, from BB's staff?

Hopefully so. What do you think?

...Charlie is turning ND around...

and then there is Rob Ryan in Oakland

Saban won a national championship at LSU and will likely turn Bama around

Ferentz and Hill have made Fresno and Iowa competitive

Al Groh has taken UVA to 4 bowl games in 6 seasons and was 9-7 in his year leading the NYJ

RAC has a fistfull of rings as an assistant and will be an excellent HC somewhere some day

 

[PromisedLand]

...Charlie is turning ND around...

and then there is Rob Ryan in Oakland

Saban won a national championship at LSU and will likely turn Bama around

Ferentz and Hill have made Fresno and Iowa competitive

Al Groh has taken UVA to 4 bowl games in 6 seasons and was 9-7 in his year leading the NYJ

RAC has a fistfull of rings as an assistant and will be an excellent HC somewhere some day

I am talking about their perceived value as NFL head coaches.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I am talking about their perceived value as NFL head coaches.

fair enough

I'd say that the tree has been stripped clean for a few years until Josh McD or Brad Seeley want to move on.

In current regards, there is always an idiot with a ton of money that will throw it at a name.

ie Denny Green, Art Shell, et al

there will always be a market for pedigree I suspect

 

[PromisedLand]

fair enough

I'd say that the tree has been stripped clean for a few years until Josh McD or Brad Seeley want to move on.

In current regards, there is always an idiot with a ton of money that will throw it at a name.

ie Denny Green, Art Shell, et al

there will always be a market for pedigree I suspect

Right, but my thesis is that there was a market bubble of sorts, where anyone and everyone connected with BB was a hot commodity simply because of that association. I.e. there was a perception that anyone in the BB tree was another BB. My question is do you think that now that at least two of three BB disciples who were NFL head coaches have failed to demonstrate that they share BB's genius, will the fever cool down?

edit: as an example, people here were even suggesting that a team might try to hire neophyte coordinate Josh McDaniel.

 

[alamo]

Very similar to the situation with Jimmy Johnson's assistants. All have flamed out as head coaches.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Right, but my thesis is that there was a market bubble of sorts, where anyone and everyone connected with BB was a hot commodity simply because of that association. I.e. there was a perception that anyone in the BB tree was another BB. My question is do you think that now that at least two of three BB disciples who were NFL head coaches have failed to demonstrate that they share BB's genius, will the fever cool down?

edit: as an example, people here were even suggesting that a team might try to hire neophyte coordinate Josh McDaniel.

Perhaps, but Mangini and Tannenbaum have raised the question of what it is that makes BB so effective in New England. The article Psycho posted about Pioli shows that some people have a theory - certainly Woody Johnson owner of the Jest liked that possibility and created "Tangini" to test the theory. Lerner in Cleveburgh tried it too, Crennel was supposedly paired with a personnel guru, but Savage has melted down fast enough to show that Lerner guessed wrong on the pairing. Saban was having trouble finding a personnel man, certainly there were rumors about that problem prior to Alabama chumming the waters.

Charlie and the college brethren get to recruit their own. Woody Johnson has made an effort to partner with the Krafts in the League meetings and reportedly has worked hard to learn from them. Certainly year one says he may have hit on a match. Art Model bottled BB up. Lerner had too many clowns surrounding him - and may be one himself. Huezanga (sp?) and Saban missed on the personnel side from the evidence.

Anyone planning to emulate BB/SP/Krafts needs to look in their own mirror first, then shop carefully - it looks like the owner/coach/personnel man partnership is where the value is generated - so when Dimitrof was recruited to interview in Minnesota, and then got a new contract to stay in New England...we need to watch Pioli's department carefully too.

 

[DarrylS]

Reminds me of how many of our players are overvalued, take Givens, McGinnest and Deion for example... here they were part of team that could utilize their strengths. The same for Romeo, the difference in Cleveland is there is no infrastructure, i.e. Pioli, BB and the rest of the crew to back him up. Saban really does not count, as he was brought up in College more than the NFL. Charlie Weiss is too early to tell, as it is only his second year at Notre Dame and college is a different game anyways...

Gotta remember how BB had difficulty when he was first at Cleveland, and found success after he was seasoned in other organizations.. these guys have a blueprint. Sometimes the problem is that the organization is not on the same page, and the blueprint will not work as well. While the whole Pats org is on the same page, using the same playbook under the direction of our resident geniuses.

 

[PatsRI]

I've said all along that Saban being compared to BB was wrong. He worked with him but he has had different styles all along. AS for ROmeo his biggest mistake is going to Cleveland. He doesn't pick the players Savage does.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Someone in this forum has a pic of the Patriot nesting dolls (which imo is perfect),and I think it could apply to the coaching staff/organization as well.
While comprised of talented individuals,the whole still remains the sum of all it's parts. Taking one part will not guarantee success because a large measure of that individual's success came from the system/organization as a whole.
While I think other teams choose wisely when they absorb a member of the Pats,I haven't seen any one individual achieve the same level or type of success they had here. College is different though, and I'm not sure we can draw a level comparison to the NFL?
Either way,we can't blame the individual for moving on nor can we blame another team/organization for wanting one of our own,but in answer to the original question,I'd imagine overall it's begun to occur to the NFL that buying one member of the Patriots doesn't necessarily guarantee anything. If that's true,the implications of that should get interesting down the road.

 

[Steamer86]

I wonder if some current players may turn out to be among BBs greatest coaching proteges. Troy Brown would make a great receiver coach as soon as he is done playing, with his experience on both sides, he has incredible perspective. Vrabel would be a great LB coach, having played indide and out as well as some end in college. Bruschi and Harrison are passionate, smart and seem like natural coaches.....It will be interesting to see if any want to get into coaching.

 

[smg93]

One thing is for sure, because the BB coaching family has been raided over and over the last few years, we are now left with neophytes who have yet to make a name for themselves except for Pees (at least in the age department). I'm not saying they aren't good, but they still have to prove themselves as SB winners for instance.

Mangini got lucky with the Jets job because of his closeness with Tannenbaum. Without that, I'm sure he'd still be the DC of the Pats this year. Regardless however, he's done a good job with the jets.

As for RAC, it's not like BB was successful himself the first time around as HC of the Browns. Weis is doing a good job at ND. I'm willing to see how he does a few years down the line when his recruits start to become juniors and seniors.