Mark Herzlich - What do you think of him?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by DaBruinz, Jan 6, 2011.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    OK, I do understand that he there is always the potential for his cancer to return. But, for now, let's not focus on that. Let's focus on him as a player..

    I think that Herzlich has the size (6'4 1/8"), speed, aggressiveness and coverage ability that the Pats like in their OLB. He has that "nose for the ball" innate ability. He could also be an ILB with his abilities..

    To say that he's overcome adversity is an understatement considering the kind of cancer he had and the fact that he came back and played so well.. Despite breaking his hand.. How does a guy still get 4 Ints with a hand in a cast???

    That being said, how do you all feel he is as a fit for the Pats???
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks Supporter Supporter

    Possible late round option NE might "redshirt" to give him another year to regain his conditioning. At this point in time I see him as a Practice Squad option at best, his primary competition would be Guyton & Fletcher who have passing down sub-package roles. He's not a natural fit for NE's 3-4 ILB or OLB assignments, but could transition into a variety of roles with time and hard work.
  3. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

    Conventional wisdom...Herzlich translates to ILB for the Pats and they have enough at that position (Mayo, Guyton, Spikes, Fletcher). Herzlich doesn't have the bulk to set the edge and was never really a pass rusher at BC.

    Unconventional thinking...If healthy and back to a 2008 level physically, he is a top 15 talent. He has a high football IQ and has unique skills in coverage that translate well to a pass-happy NFL. If you can get that in a 2nd round pick, you just do it and figure out the best way to use him later.

    The real question is health. If he checks out physically, he is a fine selection at 2A/2B. I think this draft is about upgrading at the top and not developing from the bottom. A 2008 Herzlich is an upgrade to Guyton and helps build superior depth and flexibility at LB.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  4. He would be a good pickup in the 4th or 5th round, if he lasts that long.

    He could play OLB in a 4-3 or ilb in a 3-4 eventually, if he gains weight maybe.
  5. jays52

    jays52 In the Starting Line-Up

    #91 Jersey

    Decent starter as a 43 Sam. Could possibly also fit in as a Tampa-2 Mike because of his height and ball skills. His best fit, though, is a 43 Sam in a scheme with a lot of TE responsibilities.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I would move him to ILB. He has the instincts and speed that Spikes does not have and he can tackle just as well.

    In coverage he projects to be much better than Spikes ever will.

    Given Spikes lack of anything resembling speed, I think he a 1st down run stopper only.

    Herzlich projects to be much more versatile and complete.
  7. Sciz

    Sciz Supporter Supporter

    Being versatile and complete is Mayo's job. Taking on guards so he doesn't have to is Spikes'.
  8. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    He's even more impressive live than on TV. I really think he could have the long term flexibility to play a hybrid role between ILB and OLB in the 3-4 that could keep offenses guessing. He's stout enough to set the edge, quick enough in space to cover TEs or some backs and has good instincts that would allow him to be an effective pass rusher although lacking elite speed and burst of an elite OLB.

    He's bigger, faster and more athletic than Ninkovich and as stated before he has a high football IQ.
  9. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

    I think that sums it up. I think most teams fans would like him in the late rounds as a great story and would be rooting for him. I just don't know where he'd play for us
  10. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    Yes that's nice. But can he rush the passer? :D
  11. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I'm not sure how people can say he's a "late round" pick when he projected as a 2nd rounder now and he's projected as a one of the top 5 OLBs..

    That being said, I appreciate the input.

    BTW, at 6'4 and 245, is plenty big to be an OLB for the Pats.. but that is just my opinion
  12. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse Supporter Supporter

    #15 Jersey

    I love Herzlich as a football player! He has that motor and love of the game that BB desires. I do believe he will be passed over by most of the NFL teams because of his cancer history. The Pats are in a unique position to grab him and take the risk because they have so many draft picks. I like teh idea of a "redshirt" year too! Herzlich is the best college LB I have ever seen dropping into coverage. Would love to see him on the Pats!
  13. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

    He is only a late round pick if his combine/pro-day numbers disappoint...leading people to suspect he isn't all the way recovered from cancer. If he isn't able to come all the way back by April (when he knows his future is on the line), it is reasonable to wonder if it will ever happen.

    If you are going to project Herzlich to the Pats, I believe you have to think outside the box. If you are just going to deal with traditional 3-4 ILB/OLB roles and responsibilities, then Herzlich is an ILB and you are drafting him into a crowded field. The Pats almost always turn college DEs into OLBs since they can play with their hands on the ground...the Pats coach them to play on their feet. Herzlich would be the reverse and that hasn't happened before with the Pats AFAIK.

    However, free your mind from the shackles of conventional thinking and Herzlich could make a lot of sense. He never plays with his hands on the ground (which is what the Pats OLBs do in passing situations) but you line him up all over the field. He will drop into coverage a lot but still be reactive to draw plays and spying a mobile QB. He could also occasionally rush the QB from any number of spots.

    That would limit him to sub packages, exotic formations (the roaming linebacker scheme) and occasional rotation duty at ILB. That could potentially be half the snaps on defense. That is clearly worth a 2nd round pick for the Pats if he is healthy. If he projects to the 2008 Herzlich, he is a steal even at 1B/2A and will quickly displace Guyton on the roster.
  14. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

    We agree here cousin.
    DW Toys
  15. Warren94

    Warren94 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Mike Vrable (sp) IMO
  16. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

    I agree with you he's not a late pick; 3rd or 4th round. He played well in the last couple games. The posters who said he's a best fit for 3-4 Sam are dead on. It's not so much his size as the fact that he's not the pass rusher you would want in a 3-4 OLB. He'd be awesome in Fletcher's role, but I don't think we'll take him.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  17. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 In the Starting Line-Up

    #11 Jersey

    I know he'll be picked in the 2nd round. Bank it.
  18. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    From what I saw of him at the combine, he will end up as UDFA. At this stage in his recovery, he wasn't close to being on par athletically with the other LBs.
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Well, he's been improving every week since he got back on the field last summer. It will be interesting to see if there is a substantial difference between his pro-day numbers and his combine numbers. As it stands right now, except for the bench press and vertical, Herzlich was 3rd worst in the 40, his splits were just as bad. His shuttle and 3 cone were also in the lower quarter of the OLB group.

    I doubt he's fallen to UDFA status because of his previous performance before the cancer and because he proved that despite the cancer he's still a play-maker.
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    The key number for him was the the increase in the 40 time. The 4.6 Herzlich was a sure first rounder - the 4.9 Herzlich with a with a piece of metal in his leg, coming off of cancer isn't going to get picked before the 5th round.

    There is he is a decent value with the potential to turn into a great pick. If what he showed in the combine is who he is, the Pats would at worst get a player who could excell on special teams and have back up potential. At best you might have a player who can get back to that 4.6 speed and be an impact starter.

    I'm sure this is what most teams are thinking.
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