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Marcus Cannon

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATSNUTme, Nov 24, 2012.

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  1. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know that many fans were worried about Cannon starting at RT in place of SeaBass.

    Did anyone notice him getting beat? Did anyone notice his name being called for penalties or missing blocks?

    He's really now at the end of his rookie year, considering all the time he missed last year. I won't be surprised if next year he moves into the ORG spot and is solid for years to come.
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    In his presser, BB seemed pleased with MC's play.

    BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Bill Belichick praises Marcus Cannon’s work filling in for Sebastian Vollmer
  3. borg

    borg Rookie

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    I've probably been the biggest Cannon naysayer on this board. When word hit that Sea Bass was sitting it out, I dry heaved in bent over pain with cold sweats and hot flashes simultaneously attacking my convulsing body. Then the first series....McDaniels had both a TE and a RB positioned on the right side ready to sweep up the mess that Cannon was bound to create. But after only two plays, it became quite clear that Cannon was up for the task and the Jets DE wasn't going to win the one on one battle. Nice job Marcus.
    The synergy of play calling/line blocking, especially with the revolving O line door is remarkable. You watch some of the really bad teams that lack any offensive sophistication....then think of what the Patriots accomplish weekly no matter who takes the field......chess vs checkers. This Foxborough operation is one for the ages
  4. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    He did look good, they've done a great job with him. While I hope he can take over the RT job I still want the team to pick up uberbinkie Kyle Long.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's the way I see it. Move Cannon to RG - he can always fill in a RT in a pinch, but next to Vollmer you'd have an incredibly powerful right side of the line. Extend Vollmer, draft a guy like Kyle Long or Lane Johnson as a swing tackle, with Zusevics (another G/T guy) or Kopa/Hix hopefully emerging as a #4. Wendell, Thomas, McDonald and possibly Petrus as young interior linemen. That leaves only Mankins and Connolly over 30. Add in one solid draft interior lineman - maybe a powerful guy like Larry Warford or Travis Frederick - and the Pats would be in very good shape for the long term.
  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I saw, when the Jets got pressure, it was usually up the interior of the OL. Cannon had a solid game.
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why do you hope Cannon can take over the RT job? Have you given up on Vollmer, who's been having a Pro Bowl season?

    Cannon did great. I'm not ready to make him my RT against JJ Watt and the Texans just yet. Vollmer's the man for that job. And yes, I want Kyle Long, with Lane Johnson my backup option at swing tackle.
  8. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    I like Vollmer very much but I think he's going to want LT money and he's unreliable as far as health goes. So, do I want to spend scarce cap money on him or bet my money in a different direction? Cannon has been doing well and I think the sky is the limit for a guy like Long, in general I like that idea better, but Vollmer's $ demands and health are going to have to be assessed at that time.
  9. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    Cannon has made progress all year and I've never been down on him. That said I don't want to see how he does against Aldon Smith and JJ Watt. Please get healthy Vollmer. Vollmer vs those two will be epic. I think if he plays those two games that will be his coming out party nationally.
  10. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    HEY!!!!! It's not like Seabass died or anything!

    Edit: Ok, I saw your follow up post. Makes sense in context.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm guessing Vollmer will see as much of Justin Smith as Aldon Smith. But yes, if he does well against Houston and SF it will certainly not hurt his value. His back history, OTOH, should be a factor in any negotiations.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're in the perfect situation with the three but I'm not sure we'll be putting long term, big money into Vollmer unless his back is in reasonable shape. I love Vollmer but the fact that he seemingly needed a preventative game off this week makes me wonder if they'll move on especially as a team may pay him LT money. I'm expecting Solder and Cannon at Tackle next year with a draft choice there also.
  13. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The assessment below was in the "O-Line Responded" thread; I thought the analysis was worth repeating here.


  14. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    The hope is that Vollmer and the Pats find a happy medium on a long term deal. Reasonable signing bonus with escalators based on playing time that put him in Eric Winston's neighborhood...
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  15. Bonzo

    Bonzo Rookie

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    I wonder... given the injury concerns, is the consensus that Vollmer can really command that kind of bread?
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Winston got 5 years @ $30M from Houston in 2008, was cut due to salary cap issues, then got 4 years @ $22M from KC this year. That would be very reasonable money for Vollmer.

    Factors favoring Vollmer wanting/meriting more: his versatility at LT, plus being the most dominant RT in the game

    Factors keeping Vollmer's market value down: his age (29 next July) and injury history
  17. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    SF does move them around but I do believe Aldon is 75% on the left and Justin the same on the right.
  18. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agree 100%. 4y/$22m w/ $8m in signing bonus and the remainder salary & incentives on playing time seem about right to me. The question are they right to Seabass? :p
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is Vollmer worth more to the patriots than he is to another team? Other teams need a starting LT; we could use a backup. Other teams need a starting RT. We have a good one in Cannon who we will need to switch positions if Vollmer stays.

    Sure, I'd love to have Vollmer starting for us in 2013.

    You give examples to see whether we might pay market value. That really isn't the issue. The question is whether others will (and should) pay more than the patriots.

    We'll have an offseason, but I think that using a top draft pick for a lineman is not in the cards, although I almost always want a top lineman. We are fine with our starters, even without Vollmer. Folks here don't seem to respect the play of Wendell and Connolly. Thomas has played exceptionally well when Mankins is out. Even McDonald has been a strong pass blocker, although he isn't a strong run blocker. We now have added Zucevic as a developmental OT.

    This OL is as strong as it's been in years. Personally, I would add a developmental OT, if we can. Of course, we needed one this year. We've been pretty thin at OT.

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  20. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

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    Vollmer is 28 and having a pro bowl-like season. He's got years ahead of him.

    We don't have to worry about Cannon taking over unless Vollmer stars missing a lot of time too csstently.

    I'll eat my words from preseason if Cannon's development continues but I'd still rather see him at RG. Right now there's no starting spot open for him when all our guys are healthy.

    If Wendell hadn't payed like he as been, I'd b calling for Connolly at Center with Cannon at RG.
  21. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    I don't believe cap space will be a problem next season. They should have enough to re-sign Vollmer,Welker,Edelman,Woodhead and Talib and any others they might want.

    From Bleacher Report Site:



    According to Spotrac.com, the Patriots 2012 cap hit is at $106,632,966, which takes into account $94,491,221 of active contracts (base salaries and bonuses), $18,801,745 in dead money and $6,660,000 in cap rollover. With this year's salary cap at $120.6 million, this means the Patriots should carry over about $14 million in cap space next year.

    NYJetscap.com, which projects future cap hits for all AFC east teams, projects the Patriots coming in at about $100 million against the cap in 2013. Considering the projected 2013 salary cap of $120.9 (per ESPN) and the possible $14 million the Pats can carry over into 2013, the Patriots should sit pretty comfortably at about $35 million under the cap.
    The Pats should have the cap space to keep their team among the most talented in the NFL in 2013.

    FA's 2013:

    Julian Edelman
    Aqib Talib
    Sebastian Vollmer
    Wes Welker


    Kyle Arrington
    Ron Brace
    Patrick Chung
    Marquice Cole
    Marcus Harrison
    Michael Hoomanawanui
    Niko Koutouvides
    Derrick Martin
    Nick McDonald
    Mitch Petrus
    Trevor Scott
    Donald Thomas
    Tracy White
    Danny Woodhead
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  22. p8ryts

    p8ryts Rookie

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    What's the fascination with Long?
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's been a board sleeper and uber-binky for months now, before he was a starter for Oregon:

    - Howie Long's son. Started as a pitcher for Florida St., dropped out due to academic and alcohol issues, got his act together, transferred to a small school and took up football.
    - Howie calls him the 'best athlete in the family". He's got prototypical size at 6'7" 310# and is very rugged and physical, as well as having nice footwork and athleticism. Plays with a nasty streak.
    - He's technically a bit raw but is improving remarkably quickly - sort of the OT version of Ziggy Ansah. He has appeared dominant at times. He's gone from being entirely off the radar of most draft boards (not necessarily pro scouts, however) to getting some major attention. Tony Pauline has gone so far as to predict he'll end up being a 2nd round pick, though that seems a bit aggressive.

    He has the size, athleticism, nastiness and bloodlines to make him a perfect Scar pupil, so he's achieved Barwinesque status on the draft board for some.
  24. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like Wendell plenty, but given one more year seasoning for Cannon: Solder-Mankins-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer would be a monster-roadgrading line next year. Can you imagine THAT line blocking for Ridley/Vereen/Bolden/Woodhead/Demps??????

    Wendell-Thomas-Developmental Tackle(or McDonald) would be the battle-hardened and capable backups.
  25. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    That was encouraging, the line seems in great shape for the future even post Mankins. You have Seabass and Solder at T. Inside Connolly, Wendell, McDonald, and Cannon, who can also sub at T.
  26. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's review your arithmetic: $14M carryover; $21M under for 2013; $35M enough to sign everyone.

    $14M CARRYOVER
    Where did you get that number. I have it closer to ZERO carryover, although a small amout is certainly possible. The cap page has the number at $6.85M. We will still have additional
    expenses this year, if anyone goes to IR, and with the constant shuffling of the roster. All this is normal. In addition, there are bonuses to pay out of that money.

    $21M UNDER FOR 2013
    $5M is simply needed to sign players for $500K each to fill the roster, since we currently have only 43 signed. At least $6M is usually needed for the incremental cost of rookies, for IR players, for the Practice Squad, and for in-season transactions. That leaves us with $10M available.

    $35M ENOUGH FOR ALL THE PLAYERS
    First of all, the total I came to was $10M, although I understand that it could be $15M.

    Some of the players re-signed or signed in free agency to replace the players below won't be much more than the $500K per player I indicated for the 10 additional players. UDFA's would be even less.

    So, who do we "really" need to re-sign or replace from your list. Draftees will fill some of the spots, perhaps replacing some of those already included in the 43 signed players. While this is a manageable list, I don't think that we will sign the top four (Welker, Edelman, Vollmer and Taolib_ and still have money left over to meet the rest of the needs.

    #1 WR: WELKER
    #3 WR and PR: EDELMAN
    #4 WR (could be an inexpensive free agent, but this will cost something)
    #1 CB: TALIB
    #3 CB: ARRINGTON
    #4 CB: COLE
    RT: VOLLMER
    back OL's: THOMAS, McDONALD
    DE/LB: SCOTT
    LB: the coverage LB we don't have

    If we allocate $5M for mid-level free agents and JAG's and $6M to rookies, Practice Squad and injury replacements, we would have $10M for the top four. There is lots of work to do.

    If you think that the $5M for mid-level replacements is unreasonable, consider that $4.750M is the cost of Cole, Scott, Arrington and Thomas. This doesn't count the cost of players now gone and not currently under contract.

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  27. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    Not my arithmetic tho. I got it from Bleacher Report and this site.

    New England Patriots - 2012 Cap Hits



    I'm not a cap guru by any means.


    "According to Spotrac.com, the Patriots 2012 cap hit is at $106,632,966, which takes into account $94,491,221 of active contracts (base salaries and bonuses), $18,801,745 in dead money and $6,660,000 in cap rollover. With this year's salary cap at $120.6 million, this means the Patriots should carry over about $14 million in cap space next year."
  28. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh, that explains things. As far as I can tell, Spotrac doesn't get any special information. They just piece together what the media reports. People don't realize and treat their numbers like they're exactly right.

    They're the PFF of contract info, if you will. Somebody without any special training being treated like an expert in the field because they provide knowledge that people are too lazy to do themselves.
  29. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Regardless of how the season ends, the Pats are going to have to be VERY busy this March with their own FAs

    In a list of importance, this is what the Pats are going to have to do.

    1. Redo Tom Brady's contract, spread his money over more years than he'll ever play and lower that $20MM cap hit that's due next season

    2. Re-sign Volmer, Talib, and Edelman

    3. Make your final pitch to Welker and quickly make a final decision. He has to fish or cut bait. One way or the other, I'd want a final decision on Welker by the first week of March.

    4. Make final decisions on the 2nd tier FA's like Arrington, Woodhead, Thomas, McDonald, Brace, Cole, Petrus etc

    5. Walk away from Chung, Scott, Hoomanawanui and White

    6. In FA at Jarius Byrd to replace Chung at S - as good as Chung in run support, better in coveragel. Either Connor Barwin or Micheal Johnson would be my DL targets. And of course, Danny Ammendola if I couldn't work things out with Welker.

    A Secondary of Talib, Dowling, Dennard, and Arrington/Draft pick at CB and McCourty Byrd, Gregory and Wilson at Safety with McCourty at CB depth is the kind of secondary you could base a "dominant" defense on.

    Adding either a Barwin, or Johnson to our existing front 7 would give us another impact rusher. Personally I'd prefer Johnson because he could be used as in inside rusher, as well as in a 3-4 DE capacity. And don't forget we get back Dane Fletcher as a coverage LB next season.

    Now think about an OL of Solder, Mankins (Healthy) Connolly, Cannon, and Volmer, with Thomas, Wendell and McDonald for Depth.

    Think about Gronk and Hernandez at TE, with Fells Ballard, and Shiancoe fighting for the last 2 slots

    Think about a WR groupl of Welker/Ammendola, Edelman, Lloyd, and High draft pick (with the TE and RB receiving options we only carry 5 WR's including Slater

    Think about a RB corp of Ridley, Vareen, Boldin, Demps and Woodhead/FB - Hard choice of Woody or a FB type

    Now THAT is the makings of on dominant team. An offense that is actually better and deeper than this year, simply because of health Plus the very scary thought of that offense being matched up with the beginning of what could be the start of dominant defense.

    This is a team that could finish the deal we started in 2007.....with a little bit of luck. ;)

    OOPS, I'm rambling again
  30. 1%er

    1%er Banned

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    I'd expect them to take 2 wide receivers in this draft. Last year they focused on defense, 2010 took 2 RB, 2009 took 2 TE's.

    I see no need to add a safety like Byrd. Wilson needs to emerge as are starting SS, he was 2nd rounder and has shown the ability. McCourty is going to be an elite FS and Gregory can back up both position, with Ebner adding depth.

    You resign Talib or another top tier CB, develop Dennard and Dowling. Bring Arrington and Cole back for depth. Then I would trade up and take DeMarcus Milline.

    If I was to spend money in free agency it would be on someone like Henry Melton who can provide pressure from the inside. We have Ninkovich, Jones, Cunningham, Bequette and Francis all young and still developing on the outside. Kyle Love is a good run stopper but he doesn't provide much push.
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