March 28 - A New Thread On Priorities

[mgteich]

I don't see the need for any of the players drafted this year to be a serious 2016 contributor, except perhaps at RB.
==============================
I don't concern myself with 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFA's. Belichick will be a couple of contributors, as he always does. And each will be named by someone here. Of course, 100 will be named who aren't picked, or who don't end up being a contributor.
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MY TOP PRIORITIES FOR ROUND 2 AND 3
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1) DE/OLB
Last I checked, our top signed DE's for 2017 are Flowers and Grissom. Obviously, we want to extend our DE's. But, just perhaps, we won't extend them all. We need more potential starters.

2) OT
How long will Vollmer be productive? He is in his contract year. I think that we need an OT for the future, in additional to possibly having one in Waddle.

3) RB
The 2nd or 3rd certainly seem a fine spot to find a RB. Dixon anyone?

4) CB
Belichick will likely sign another one or two free agents, but we have very little signed for 2017. Butler and Ryan will be considered for extensions. But, here we are with a serious need for a corner.

THERE I'VE DONE IT AGAIN
As is often the case, I don't have WR on my high priority list. Well, perhaps I think that Belichick will the later rounds to take his usual flyer on a WR. For me, I've fine with Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Washington and Martin (yes, I know Dobson, Harper or someone else could win one of these roster spots, if there even are 5 WR spots).

And yes, Belichick could pick a player at another position if the value is there. Matekevich comes to mind. Also, we could draft a DT if value is there; however, I think that this addition might come from free agency.

FINALLY
Belichick might sign an additional free agent and free up one of these priorities some.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't see the need for any of the players drafted this year to be a serious 2016 contributor, except perhaps at RB.
==============================
I don't concern myself with 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFA's. Belichick will be a couple of contributors, as he always does. And each will be named by someone here. Of course, 100 will be named who aren't picked, or who don't end up being a contributor.
==========
MY TOP PRIORITIES FOR ROUND 2 AND 3
------------------------------------------------------
1) DE/OLB
Last I checked, our top signed DE's for 2017 are Flowers and Grissom. Obviously, we want to extend our DE's. But, just perhaps, we won't extend them all. We need more potential starters.

2) OT
How long will Vollmer be productive? He is in his contract year. I think that we need an OT for the future, in additional to possibly having one in Waddle.

3) RB
The 2nd or 3rd certainly seem a fine spot to find a RB. Dixon anyone?

4) CB
Belichick will likely sign another one or two free agents, but we have very little signed for 2017. Butler and Ryan will be considered for extensions. But, here we are with a serious need for a corner.

THERE I'VE DONE IT AGAIN
As is often the case, I don't have WR on my high priority list. Well, perhaps I think that Belichick will the later rounds to take his usual flyer on a WR. For me, I've fine with Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Washington and Martin (yes, I know Dobson, Harper or someone else could win one of these roster spots, if there even are 5 WR spots).

And yes, Belichick could pick a player at another position if the value is there. Matekevich comes to mind. Also, we could draft a DT if value is there; however, I think that this addition might come from free agency.

FINALLY
Belichick might sign an additional free agent and free up one of these priorities some.

1. I'm surprised you haven't included DT as more of a priority.We only have Brown and the oft-injured Easley signed past this year and have a Hicks sized hole for this year. If I was to guess, I'd say they go DT/OT with our first two picks and RB plus either LB/WR/CB in the 3rd. This is also an amazing DT class with real value being found as late as the 3rd round. I think they should double-dip at DT.

2. Kenneth Dixon has one of the worst fumble rates amongst RB's coming out. Good back aside from that but that might be too much of a red flag.

3. I can see CB coming from the post-draft round of cuts and trades.

4. It's a pretty terrible DE class this year. It might not be the year to spend a high pick there.

 

[mgteich]

1. I'm surprised you haven't included DT as more of a priority.We only have Brown and the oft-injured Easley signed past this year and have a Hicks sized hole for this year. If I was to guess, I'd say they go DT/OT with our first two picks and RB plus either LB/WR/CB in the 3rd. This is also an amazing DT class with real value being found as late as the 3rd round. I think they should double-dip at DT.

2. Kenneth Dixon has one of the worst fumble rates amongst RB's coming out. Good back aside from that but that might be too much of a red flag.

3. I can see CB coming from the post-draft round of cuts and trades.

4. It's a pretty terrible DE class this year. It might not be the year to spend a high pick there.

First, thank you for the info on the quality of EDGE players and fumbling issue of Dixon.

EDGE RUSHERS
We have a very serious need to extend Sheard and Collins (as Miguel has pointed out). Your analysis supports this understanding. I would note that we should also be extending Ninkovich.

DEFENSIVE TACKLES
If the quality is there, I certainly support such a pick. I do like our Brown-Branch combo a lot, and expect Branch to be extended. My guess is that Belichick does also, or Siliga would still be here. We also have Easley and Chris Jones. I would expect another free agent or two to compete with Kearse and Kitchen for a last roster spot or two. Of course, top free agents would work better.

CORNERS
Are there really no 3rd round corners who can compete with Coleman, Roberts and Melvin for roster spots? We certainly have the lowest drafted corners in the NFL.

OFFENSIVE TACKLE
Depending on what Scar thinks of the futures of his players, OT could very well be our highest priority. Are the quality players there. I recall some of us suggesting trading UP in the 2nd for an OT.

BOTTOM LINE
Obviously, everything depends on value available when we pick. If we can't get our EDGE player (where we NEED to double dip), then certainly we can look to where the quality is.

 

[manxman2601]

First, thank you for the info on the quality of EDGE players and fumbling issue of Dixon.

EDGE RUSHERS
We have a very serious need to extend Sheard and Collins (as Miguel has pointed out). Your analysis supports this understanding. I would note that we should also be extending Ninkovich.

DEFENSIVE TACKLES
If the quality is there, I certainly support such a pick. I do like our Brown-Branch combo a lot, and expect Branch to be extended. My guess is that Belichick does also, or Siliga would still be here. We also have Easley and Chris Jones. I would expect another free agent or two to compete with Kearse and Kitchen for a last roster spot or two. Of course, top free agents would work better.

CORNERS
Are there really no 3rd round corners who can compete with Coleman, Roberts and Melvin for roster spots? We certainly have the lowest drafted corners in the NFL.

OFFENSIVE TACKLE
Depending on what Scar thinks of the futures of his players, OT could very well be our highest priority. Are the quality players there. I recall some of us suggesting trading UP in the 2nd for an OT.

BOTTOM LINE
Obviously, everything depends on value available when we pick. If we can't get our EDGE player (where we NEED to double dip), then certainly we can look to where the quality is.

1. EDGE - I don't think BB trades Chandler Jones unless the idea was to extend Sheard. It should also be noted that BB is prepared to go into an off-season with a virtually empty position grouping. WR this year, OG last year for example. I could see us drafting a first round pass rusher next year. I see Flowers as a future Nink replacement.

2. DT - I'm not a fan of Chris Jones. There are 3rd and 4th round DTs in the draft this year better than him. This is the year to lock up the DT position for the next half decade.

3. CORNER - I wonder whether Jason McCourty might be the plan. The CB class is fairly average this year. Still, Ryan, Butler, Coleman is a decent group and hopefully Roberts comes on. Add a mid to late round guy and that should be sufficient.

4. OT - Definite priority, although I'd go DT first because of the strength of the class. The OTs available to us are more 2nd-3rd round types whereas the DTs that might fall to us will probably carry a better grade. Of course, we'll probably just go safety with our first pick

5. I am still hoping that Braxton Miller is on the radar. Sterling Shepard is very good too. But I think the chances of a 2nd WR are diminishing however.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Would love to see a draft with Procisse from ND at back and if the trade for Gordon doesnt go down then draft Garret at receiver big physical fast freak who drew similarities to Moss just needs coached up.
I think we will be all over procisse because of position flexibility.
I like Braxton Miller but he scares me he doesnt seem to have the hands and concentration as a Garret.
So my scenario is Patriots draft the back of their choice hopefully not another Maroney or James white whos more of a gadget back.
Id feel alot better trading for a vet.

 

[BelichickFan]

All signs point to a 2nd round defensive tackle, trading down and picking up picks in the gap from 96th to 196th overall, a 3rd round offensive tackle and cornerback, and then a late-mid round running back.

2016 NFL Draft: Curious Observations Regarding Patriots Known Private Visits

 

[Ochmed Jones]

All signs point to a 2nd round defensive tackle, trading down and picking up picks in the gap from 96th to 196th overall, a 3rd round offensive tackle and cornerback, and then a late-mid round running back.

2016 NFL Draft: Curious Observations Regarding Patriots Known Private Visits

There is no doubt in my mind that a good dt is going to slide to us at #60 similar to last year.

The big question is whether or not bb trades up in round two. A guy like spriggs has to be very appealing to us based on our needs.

 

[mgteich]

There is no doubt in my mind that a good dt is going to slide to us at #60 similar to last year.

The big question is whether or not bb trades up in round two. A guy like spriggs has to be very appealing to us based on our needs.

Which DT's dropped to us (or were available to us) at 60 last year (actually #64)?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Which DT's dropped to us (or were available to us) at 60 last year (actually #64)?

I think he's referring to how we took a DT at the end of the 1st round, despite most mocks projecting the player much earlier.

Given the depth of the DT position this year, his assertion is entirely reasonable. Just look at the rankings from CBS Sports, for example. I'm not suggesting they're the best or most accurate ranking system, but I would be quite happy with many of the names on this list (Butler, Clark, Jones, Johnson, Ridgeway, Henry, etc). There's no way all of these players go by 60/61.


14 Sheldon Rankins DT 1 Louisville Sr 6-1 299 1
17 *A'Shawn Robinson DT 2 Alabama Jr 6-4 307 1
19 Jarran Reed DT 3 Alabama Sr 6-3 307 1
20 *Andrew Billings DT 4 Baylor Jr 6-1 311 1
25 *Robert Nkemdiche DT 5 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 294 1
35 Vernon Butler DT 6 Louisiana Tech Sr 6-4 323 1-2
36 *Kenny Clark DT 7 UCLA Jr 6-3 314 1-2
44 *Austin Johnson DT 8 Penn State rJr 6-4 314 2
55 Adolphus Washington DT 9 Ohio State Sr 6-3 301 2
74 *Chris Jones DT 10 Mississippi State Jr 6-6 310 2-3
90 Javon Hargrave DT 11 South Carolina State Sr 6-1 309 3
103 *Maliek Collins DT 12 Nebraska Jr 6-2 311 3-4
123 Sheldon Day DT 13 Notre Dame Sr 6-1 293 4
144 *Hassan Ridgeway DT 14 Texas rJr 6-3 303 4-5
168 Matt Ioannidis DT 15 Temple Sr 6-3 299 5
175 *Willie Henry DT 16 Michigan rJr 6-3 303 5

 

[manxman2601]

I think he's referring to how we took a DT at the end of the 1st round, despite most mocks projecting the player much earlier.

Given the depth of the DT position this year, his assertion is entirely reasonable. Just look at the rankings from CBS Sports, for example. I'm not suggesting they're the best or most accurate ranking system, but I would be quite happy with many of the names on this list (Butler, Clark, Jones, Johnson, Ridgeway, Henry, etc). There's no way all of these players go by 60/61.


14 Sheldon Rankins DT 1 Louisville Sr 6-1 299 1
17 *A'Shawn Robinson DT 2 Alabama Jr 6-4 307 1
19 Jarran Reed DT 3 Alabama Sr 6-3 307 1
20 *Andrew Billings DT 4 Baylor Jr 6-1 311 1
25 *Robert Nkemdiche DT 5 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 294 1
35 Vernon Butler DT 6 Louisiana Tech Sr 6-4 323 1-2
36 *Kenny Clark DT 7 UCLA Jr 6-3 314 1-2
44 *Austin Johnson DT 8 Penn State rJr 6-4 314 2
55 Adolphus Washington DT 9 Ohio State Sr 6-3 301 2
74 *Chris Jones DT 10 Mississippi State Jr 6-6 310 2-3
90 Javon Hargrave DT 11 South Carolina State Sr 6-1 309 3
103 *Maliek Collins DT 12 Nebraska Jr 6-2 311 3-4
123 Sheldon Day DT 13 Notre Dame Sr 6-1 293 4
144 *Hassan Ridgeway DT 14 Texas rJr 6-3 303 4-5
168 Matt Ioannidis DT 15 Temple Sr 6-3 299 5
175 *Willie Henry DT 16 Michigan rJr 6-3 303 5

I'm hoping Austin Johnson falls within range. Top quality run stopper. Would be the perfect Branch replacement after this year. Add Willie Henry or Sheldon Day later and the DT position is locked up. Would comfortably settle for Ridgeway if Johnson doesn't slip.

 

[manxman2601]

Does the Harbor signing effect the interest we've shown in Vitale? I suppose it depends on the nature of the contract.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Really liked Harbor when he came out several years back. Still, the NFL is a cutthroat business, and we need a constant flow of fresh resource. If the Patriots grade Vitale highly, then they should bring him in, regardless of their free agency moves.

Neither the draft nor FA is guaranteed, so they should be looked at semi-independently. You fill holes in FA prior to the draft, but then you hedge your bets further.

 

[BobDigital]

I think he's referring to how we took a DT at the end of the 1st round, despite most mocks projecting the player much earlier.

Given the depth of the DT position this year, his assertion is entirely reasonable. Just look at the rankings from CBS Sports, for example. I'm not suggesting they're the best or most accurate ranking system, but I would be quite happy with many of the names on this list (Butler, Clark, Jones, Johnson, Ridgeway, Henry, etc). There's no way all of these players go by 60/61.


14 Sheldon Rankins DT 1 Louisville Sr 6-1 299 1
17 *A'Shawn Robinson DT 2 Alabama Jr 6-4 307 1
19 Jarran Reed DT 3 Alabama Sr 6-3 307 1
20 *Andrew Billings DT 4 Baylor Jr 6-1 311 1
25 *Robert Nkemdiche DT 5 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 294 1
35 Vernon Butler DT 6 Louisiana Tech Sr 6-4 323 1-2
36 *Kenny Clark DT 7 UCLA Jr 6-3 314 1-2
44 *Austin Johnson DT 8 Penn State rJr 6-4 314 2
55 Adolphus Washington DT 9 Ohio State Sr 6-3 301 2
74 *Chris Jones DT 10 Mississippi State Jr 6-6 310 2-3
90 Javon Hargrave DT 11 South Carolina State Sr 6-1 309 3
103 *Maliek Collins DT 12 Nebraska Jr 6-2 311 3-4
123 Sheldon Day DT 13 Notre Dame Sr 6-1 293 4
144 *Hassan Ridgeway DT 14 Texas rJr 6-3 303 4-5
168 Matt Ioannidis DT 15 Temple Sr 6-3 299 5
175 *Willie Henry DT 16 Michigan rJr 6-3 303 5

Assuming the Pats don't sign Pot Roast I would be fine going DT first and even trading up for Butler if he falls or a very small trade up for Clark but i think there is a drop off after them and would not be nearly as excited of any other DT.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Assuming the Pats don't sign Pot Roast I would be fine going DT first and even trading up for Butler if he falls or a very small trade up for Clark but i think there is a drop off after them and would not be nearly as excited of any other DT.

Interesting that you rate Butler and Clark that much more highly than the other DTs. Can you share some insight regarding those ratings? I'm curious.

 

[Luxusdk]

Does the Harbor signing effect the interest we've shown in Vitale? I suppose it depends on the nature of the contract.

Doubt cause I see Vitale as a RB not FB and/or TE.

 

[BobDigital]

Interesting that you rate Butler and Clark that much more highly than the other DTs. Can you share some insight regarding those ratings? I'm curious.

Sure. Well first off i have not looked at any of the DTs generally ranked above them much except to see if any were worth a highly expensive trade up and none were IMO.

As far as why i like those 2 over the others so much it comes down to part talent and part my own philosophy on players and how they translate. Butler has more size and that is something that gives him an edge over other players with similar skill sets. Also from a pure talent stand point i think he just has more. You rarely see a guy his size have acceleration like he does. He has the ability to pass rush which at his size is very impressive. He is my single favorite player in this draft that i think the Pats have a legit shot at but no way he falls to us. It will take a trade up.

As for Clark i think he is the best pass rushing DT we can realistically get by a pretty good amount. Some DTs are very good run stuffers and more balanced in their skill set but i value pass rush over everything else on the DL as it is the hardest thing to get in FA so he gets an extra nod.

 

[captain stone]

As I've stated multiple times on multiple threads, we are in desperate need of 2 OTs, one of whom with
starting LT abilities, and of a starting LG, preferably one who was a college LT.
The dreck we currently have on the roster can compete among themselves for the Center & RG positions.
Last season's disaster likely carved away one year from Brady's career.

We also need a young, fresh-legged RB who can gain first downs between the tackles, something that
passtheBlunt is wholly incapable of providing.

While not as desperate as LT, LG, RB & RT, we also could use a Move TE and an outside-the-hashes WR
who doesn't suck this time.

On defense, we could use another CB (and No, EJ Biggers does NOT count), an OLB who can actually
cover RBs & TEs, and a passing-down DT who can replace Dom Easily when he makes his annual trip
to the IR.

 

[mgteich]

With Knighton in, I still see us drafting a DT in the 2nd or 3rd. Double dipping seems less likely than before.

 

[manxman2601]

With Knighton in, I still see us drafting a DT in the 2nd or 3rd. Double dipping seems less likely than before.

I agree. Having said that, as things stand, we're down two realistic 53-ers next year. But I think the priority now is someone who can backup Easley. That's what we're missing.

One thought to all. Could the Knighton deal make a trade up for Jonathan Bullard more likely? He certainly has Easley's skillset and can also play DE so wouldn't be a wasted roster spot as he backs up more than one position. And the roster spot wouldn't be too hard to find - he could just take Grissom's (Grissom was OK but I don't think he'll ever be anything special).

That would still leave us with a the second second rounder (OT) and the 3rd round comp (RB/CB). It would, however, mean we miss out on filling the 4th/5th round gaps.

 

[captain stone]

Instead of using one of the 2nd-rounders on a trade-up, I want to use one of the 2nds on a small
trade-down to acquire a 4th-rounder, then use one of the 3rds on another small trade-down to acquire
a 5th-rounder.