Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

[Ring 6]

I know you're probably going to disagree with me, but I refuse to give BB a pass on this, particularly since he chooses to trade down instead of staying put or trading up for a player to fill the role(s). Most of the 3-4 defenses that are there now are new to it. New England doesn't have that excuse. Belichick's been doing things like grasping at the Burgess' of the world while waiting for Shawn Crable in the 3rd round and trading away the best 3-4 DE in a generation.

Who asked to give him a pass?
He chooses to trade down because that is what he sees as best to build the football team. His decisions at OLB for the last TWO YEARS, you know since the year we played with Vrabel and Thomas at OLB, can surely merit criticism. But to sensationlize your viewpoint by blaming it on trading down is lame.
We have 16 players and 9 starters left from 2008, just 2 seasons ago.
That means at least 9 new starters, including 2 OLBs and at least 37 players including 4 or 5 OLBs have been added in the 2 years since OLB started to 'become a problem'. The position, like just about every other position on the team has been addressed. The success rate at is can be questioned, but its function as part of the overall plan is a lot less questionable.

Of course, while discussing OLBs, you must throw in your Seymour whine. We ended up with a LT that could be here 10 years instead of one year of Seymour, yet somehow you continue to want to pretend that you don't realize he was never going to resign here, would have held out if he were franchised and to franchise him would have meant no tag for Wilfork, on top of pretneding we could afford long term deals to each.
But, hey the salary cap hasn't had any effect on teams for many years, right?

 

[Urgent]

That would be pretty bad, it doesn't seem like a championship defense.

With the current crew I would be suprised in nickel situations if Merriweather, Guyton, Ras Dowling and TBC are not on the field.

Does this look any better?

Ray Edwards, Wilfork, Wright, Cunningham
Mayo Guyton
McCourty, Chung, Merriweather, Ras Dowling, Bodden

On the topic at hand, I think Avril is a better option for Pats than Edwards, but Edwards is definitely in the top five. Might be best, as you point out, at DE.

I'm not sure playing Cunningham at DE is in his best interests now, as we try to develop a #1 OLB. But he could probably do it.

This alignment, above, basically has two ILB's. While Guyton is the best coverage LB, it would represent less rush capability.

On changes in the secondary:
Sanders vs. Meriweather. I don't want to derail this thread. Let's just disagree on that one. I prefer Sanders on more pivotal plays.

Dowling vs. Arrington/Butler/Wilhite:
It makes perfect sense that Dowling should be the third best CB on the roster. However, that doesn't mean he would be the best slot corner. According to the guides and interviews, Dowling has never played slot. All his experience is outside. Given his size, playing the inside, quick-shift role would not be his strength. The same is true of Bodden. And I don't think you want to take McCourty out of the position where he excels. SO, that leaves the winner of Arrington/Butler/Wilhite. All these guys are much more classic slot corner types. The best of these three could focus on that role, gaining communication with the linebackers and safeties on inside coverage. Dowling presumably would be the back-up to McCourty and Bodden, or could potentially unseat one of them in the future.

But all of that is off topic for pass rushers.
Avril, Johnson, Lawson, Edwards - all would be big upgrades to the depth chart.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

BB has yet to build a Super Bowl team in his career. 95% of the Pats SB teams were already in place by the time he got here.

 

[Sciz]

BB has yet to build a Super Bowl team in his career. 95% of the Pats SB teams were already in place by the time he got here.

Matt Light x3
Mike Compton
Joe Andruzzi x3
Greg Randall
Jermaine Wiggins
David Patten
Tom Brady x3
Antowain Smith x2
Marc Edwards
Bobby Hamilton x2
Richard Seymour x2
Anthony Pleasant
Mike Vrabel x3
Roman Phifer x3
Otis Smith
Deion Branch x2
Russ Hochstein
Dan Koppen x2
Tom Ashworth
Daniel Graham x2
Larry Centers
Ted Washington
Tyrone Poole
Rodney Harrison x2
Eugene Wilson x2
David Givens
Stephen Neal
Brandon Gorin
Corey Dillon
Patrick Pass
Rosevelt Colvin
Vince Wilfork
Jarvis Green
Randall Gay
Asante Samuel

By my count, that's 53 Super Bowl starters added to the team 2000 or later. So of the 66 total starters over the three Super Bowls, 95%, aka 13, "were already in place by the time he got here."

 

[RayClay]

Matt Light x3
Mike Compton
Joe Andruzzi x3
Greg Randall
Jermaine Wiggins
David Patten
Tom Brady x3
Antowain Smith x2
Marc Edwards
Bobby Hamilton x2
Richard Seymour x2
Anthony Pleasant
Mike Vrabel x3
Roman Phifer x3
Otis Smith
Deion Branch x2
Russ Hochstein
Dan Koppen x2
Tom Ashworth
Daniel Graham x2
Larry Centers
Ted Washington
Tyrone Poole
Rodney Harrison x2
Eugene Wilson x2
David Givens
Stephen Neal
Brandon Gorin
Corey Dillon
Patrick Pass
Rosevelt Colvin
Vince Wilfork
Jarvis Green
Randall Gay
Asante Samuel

By my count, that's 53 Super Bowl starters added to the team 2000 or later. So of the 66 total starters over the three Super Bowls, 95%, aka 13, "were already in place by the time he got here."

lol Good job. Significant players were Bruschi, McGinest and Law. Great players, but i can't think of more off the top of my head, unless you consider the 8th round special teams player Parcells cut twice.

 

[cstjohn17]

On the topic at hand, I think Avril is a better option for Pats than Edwards, but Edwards is definitely in the top five. Might be best, as you point out, at DE.

I'm not sure playing Cunningham at DE is in his best interests now, as we try to develop a #1 OLB. But he could probably do it.

This alignment, above, basically has two ILB's. While Guyton is the best coverage LB, it would represent less rush capability.

On changes in the secondary:
Sanders vs. Meriweather. I don't want to derail this thread. Let's just disagree on that one. I prefer Sanders on more pivotal plays.

Dowling vs. Arrington/Butler/Wilhite:
It makes perfect sense that Dowling should be the third best CB on the roster. However, that doesn't mean he would be the best slot corner. According to the guides and interviews, Dowling has never played slot. All his experience is outside. Given his size, playing the inside, quick-shift role would not be his strength. The same is true of Bodden. And I don't think you want to take McCourty out of the position where he excels. SO, that leaves the winner of Arrington/Butler/Wilhite. All these guys are much more classic slot corner types. The best of these three could focus on that role, gaining communication with the linebackers and safeties on inside coverage. Dowling presumably would be the back-up to McCourty and Bodden, or could potentially unseat one of them in the future.

But all of that is off topic for pass rushers.
Avril, Johnson, Lawson, Edwards - all would be big upgrades to the depth chart.

Love it, a football conversation, thank you. Cunningham and Edwards would be primary pass rushers with this personnel but could drop back into coverage if a zone blitz was called. it could be a 4-2-5 or a 3-3-5 depending on what you want.

Mayo and Guyton could blitz if needed but likely Mayo may blitz with Guyton having coverage responsibilities. Fletcher could also see some reps in place of Guyton.

Bodden, McCourty would be the outside players with Merriweather, Chung and Das Rowling providing a lot of flexibility, they could blitz or play coverage.

Either way I agree back to the original question about free agent pass rushers, IMO there are better options in free agency that currently are on the Patriots roster, specifically TBC could be upgraded would provide a trickle down effect to the rest of the depth.

 

[Ring 6]

BB has yet to build a Super Bowl team in his career. 95% of the Pats SB teams were already in place by the time he got here.

You need to get your calculator fixed.
In 2001 28 players started 4 or more games.
9 of them were here before BB.
9/28 is not close to 95% and you can use any other method to calculate how much of the team was here, and you'll get about the same result.

Of those 9 3 were gone by 2003, 3 more were gone before 2004 and 3 remained for all 3 SBs. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

On the topic at hand, I think Avril is a better option for Pats than Edwards, but Edwards is definitely in the top five. Might be best, as you point out, at DE.

I'm not sure playing Cunningham at DE is in his best interests now, as we try to develop a #1 OLB. But he could probably do it.

Our OLBs ARE DEs in sub packages. Where else would you play Cunningham? Are you saying take him off the field?

quote]This alignment, above, basically has two ILB's. While Guyton is the best coverage LB, it would represent less rush capability.[/quote]
We would have aq 4-2-5 alignment. The "DEs" would be 3-4 OLBs and the LBs could be ILBs, OLBs or even safeties (although that would technically be a 4-1-6 dime, we often play that like a 4-2-5 nickel)

On changes in the secondary:
Sanders vs. Meriweather. I don't want to derail this thread. Let's just disagree on that one. I prefer Sanders on more pivotal plays.

Dowling vs. Arrington/Butler/Wilhite:
It makes perfect sense that Dowling should be the third best CB on the roster. However, that doesn't mean he would be the best slot corner. According to the guides and interviews, Dowling has never played slot. All his experience is outside. Given his size, playing the inside, quick-shift role would not be his strength. The same is true of Bodden. And I don't think you want to take McCourty out of the position where he excels. SO, that leaves the winner of Arrington/Butler/Wilhite. All these guys are much more classic slot corner types. The best of these three could focus on that role, gaining communication with the linebackers and safeties on inside coverage. Dowling presumably would be the back-up to McCourty and Bodden, or could potentially unseat one of them in the future.

Opponent is a consideration, but I think we are going to see that Dowling is a better cover guy, regardless of the type of coverage than the other guys we have beyond McCourty and Bodden (although it may take most of the season before he is able to play that way). You don't have to be small to play inside as a nickel, and we don't play man all the time either. Dowlings ability would put him easily in the #3 corner spot, and he will challenge Bodden IF he adapts to the league and realizes his potential. His full potential is much higher than any corner we have not named McCourty, but that is about 10% of the equation. How he trains, practices, learns, adjusts, deals with pressure, and whats in his gut are things we just don't know yet.

But all of that is off topic for pass rushers.
Avril, Johnson, Lawson, Edwards - all would be big upgrades to the depth chart.

Some say that since we use the sub package more than half the snaps that a pass rush only 43 DE type would be a good fit. I see it the other way. BECAUSE we play so much sub, we are weakened by personell and alignment vs the run so its harder to play a guy who can't defend the run.

 

[Don Kipines]

On the topic at hand, I think Avril is a better option for Pats than Edwards, but Edwards is definitely in the top five. Might be best, as you point out, at DE.

But all of that is off topic for pass rushers.
Avril, Johnson, Lawson, Edwards - all would be big upgrades to the depth chart.

Not to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure Avril is an RFA no matter what comes out of the CBA, as he's only got three years of service time. They gave him a first-and-third tender, so unless they're granting UFA status to three-year vets, he's going to be off the table.

 

[crowell33]

Not to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure Avril is an RFA no matter what comes out of the CBA, as he's only got three years of service time. They gave him a first-and-third tender, so unless they're granting UFA status to three-year vets, he's going to be off the table.

Correct. RFA

 

[Off The Grid]

95% of the Pats SB teams were already in place by the time he got here.

PLEASE tell me they don't let you DRIVE!!