Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

[Urgent]

Third down pass defense:

Mike Wright - Vince Wilfork - Eric Moore

Jermaine Cunningham - Jerod Mayo - Cliff Avril

Devin McCourty - Arrington/Butler/Wilhite - Leigh Bodden

Patrick Chung - James Sanders

That pass defense might not be bad.
Wright, Wilfork, and Moore can each generate pressure up front.
Cunningham can attack. Mayo can drop into a zone. Avril is versatile enough to rush or drop. Moore is a versatile end/linebacker who could shift the formation from 3-3-5 to 2-4-5.
The slot/star corner is sort of up for grabs. Dowling is not a great fit for it, but Arrington, Butler, and Wilhite are typical slot corner types. Dowling has always played outside - as has Bodden.
While Sanders is far less athletic than Meriweather, he is seldom out of position and does a better job of setting the secondary. Sanders can double a receiver, while Chung plays center field.

 

[crowell33]

Third down pass defense:

Mike Wright - Vince Wilfork - Eric Moore

Jermaine Cunningham - Jerod Mayo - Cliff Avril

Devin McCourty - Arrington/Butler/Wilhite - Leigh Bodden

Patrick Chung - James Sanders

That pass defense might not be bad.
Wright, Wilfork, and Moore can each generate pressure up front.
Cunningham can attack. Mayo can drop into a zone. Avril is versatile enough to rush or drop. Moore is a versatile end/linebacker who could shift the formation from 3-3-5 to 2-4-5.
The slot/star corner is sort of up for grabs. Dowling is not a great fit for it, but Arrington, Butler, and Wilhite are typical slot corner types. Dowling has always played outside - as has Bodden.
While Sanders is far less athletic than Meriweather, he is seldom out of position and does a better job of setting the secondary. Sanders can double a receiver, while Chung plays center field.

I like how Cunningham sets the edge against the run, but on third down how about one of our better pass rushers such as Nink or TBC ?

 

[Ring 6]

I like how Cunningham sets the edge against the run, but on third down how about one of our better pass rushers such as Nink or TBC ?

Cunningham potentially is a far better pass rusher than either of those guys. He was not drafted to play the run and come off the field on passing downs. The opposite was more likely when he was drafted.

 

[Professor Frink]

I would be disappointed if Cunningham doesn't establish himself as the best edge rusher on the team this year.

 

[ausbacker]

I would be disappointed if Cunningham doesn't establish himself as the best edge rusher on the team this year.

Have faith Professor Frink. Cunningham showed some impressive glimpses in his rookie season. I fully expect him to become the outside beast we hope he can be.

 

[Professor Frink]

Have faith Professor Frink. Cunningham showed some impressive glimpses in his rookie season. I fully expect him to become the outside beast we hope he can be.

Completley agree. The point I was trying to get across (maybe I didn't do such a great job) was that I expect him to become the best pass rusher on the team, thus would be disappointed if that didn't come to fruition.

Cunningham's potential to be a well-rounded, three-down edge player is one of the things that makes this defense a very exciting unit heading into the year.

 

[ausbacker]

Completley agree. The point I was trying to get across (maybe I didn't do such a great job) was that I expect him to become the best pass rusher on the team, thus would be disappointed if that didn't come to fruition.

Cunningham's potential to be a well-rounded, three-down edge player is one of the things that makes this defense a very exciting unit heading into the year.

There's was one play that stands out to me when thinking of Cunningham's explosive potential. I can't remember which game it was but he beat the LT (who from memory was of considerable quality) like a rented mule and was making a play on the QB within a couple of seconds only to be fouled by a face mask that wasn't called and subsequently pulled down to the turf.

I sat there and thought that's a lovely bull rush JC. Lovely indeed.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

I would be disappointed if Cunningham doesn't establish himself as the best edge rusher on the team this year.

I am hard on the outside rush, but in my opinion that is the difference between another title or two or a one and done in the playoffs. I like Cunningham, but I don't think that the Patriots can depend on him to do something that he has never done in the pros. Ninkovitch is a JAG, he has had his moments but in reality he is playing because he covers better than TBC, and that is frightening to consider because TBC can't cover a lick.

I look at this team and I see potential greatness. Offensively they have the best QB in the league, a very good O line, very good recievers, adequate running backs. The only thing that is really missing from that side of the ball is a deep threat.

Defensively they have a very good front 3 and have very good back-ups for each position. Thier inside LBs are very good and have a chance to be better than that. The DBs are good, and if Bodden comes back to form they will be very good, maybe the best overall set of DBs in the AFC. Their safeties are actually one of the strengths of the team. Merriweather is a bit of a turd but he hits hard and plays the position pretty well, Chung is going to be a pro bowler eventually, Page (if he comes back) is a bit of tick or treat, but he makes a lot of plays. James Sanders is a pretty good player and Belichick likes him, but he takes some of the strangest angles to the tackle I have ever seen a player take. That said, the Pats could do worse.

At OLB is where the weakness resides, TBC is a JAG, he has had moments in the past against the bad teams in the league, but he disappears in big games and against good teams. Ninkovitch is an emergency type OLB who originally tried to make it in the NFL as a long snapper and Cunningham was a rookie last year and played like one. It is hard to defend against a good team if the QB has 4+ seconds to stand in the pocket and look down field.

Put an outside pass rusher who can get 10+ sacks on this team and the Patriots are favorites to win the championship, not Vegas type favorites but real "eyes don't lie" favorites.

 

[Professor Frink]

A few things...

I thought Cunningham and Nink both did a reasonable job last year. They both have the size and athleticism you look for, and I think with a year of experience it's not unreasonable to expect some pretty significant improvement. They are also in a position to look better because as E Belichick Unum pointed out, the players around them are pretty good. When everyone around you is doing their job, it's a lot easier for you to do yours.

Now, I know it's been a while, but I think people have forgotten what a good Belichick defense looks like. This defense has never been predicated on dominant edge players to put pressure on the QB. In this defense, it's about pressure coming from anywhere/everywhere.

If the Patriots are going to become the kind of defense we all hope they will, it's not going to be because Cunningham or whoever else is the second coming of Lawrence Taylor. It'll be because Spikes and Mayo will be our best ILB duo since the SB years. It'll be because Pat Chung will be sniffing around the box way more, and it'll be because we have two excellent corners who open up Belichick's options as a defensive play-caller.

You don't need a dominant pass rusher to win the SB. You need 11 guys who can play well and play well together.

 

[Off The Grid]

Not sure how one players solves this, also not sure how they can go into next year and have confidence that the same group of players will be able to dramatically improve.

We've got no less than 6 guys, all of them with talent:

1 ~ Cunningham
2 ~ Ninkovich
3 ~ Spikes
4 ~ Chung
5 ~ McCourty
6 ~ Brace

~ who just completed their grueling apprenticeships, have completed all the heavy lifting, and are poised for rapid and dramatic improvement.

And we've got 2 guys:

7 ~ Warren
8 ~ Bodden

~ of high caliber quality, set to return, having played not a single DOWN, last year. Their impact, alone, should catapult us.

We've got 1 talented double All Pro lunatic headed into his Contract Year under new and improved coaching:

9 ~ Stomper

Often forgotten: he's going into his 2nd year as Free Safety. As with the other 6, the transition from "thinking" through plays to instinctive play is a vital one.

***

That's 9 of 11 positions where we have every reason to expect significant individual improvement, and ~ far more importantly ~ far more synchronicity.

And the other 2 guys are named:

10 ~ Wilfork
11 ~ Mayo

We are poised to make immense improvements, this year.

 

[Off The Grid]

There's was one play that stands out to me when thinking of Cunningham's explosive potential. I can't remember which game it was but he beat the LT (who from memory was of considerable quality) like a rented mule and was making a play on the QB within a couple of seconds only to be fouled by a face mask that wasn't called and subsequently pulled down to the turf.

I sat there and thought that's a lovely bull rush JC. Lovely indeed.

You can ONLY mean THIS play:

The FILTHY SANCHEZ!!​

Jets PRIDE, Baby!! ​

...

 

[VJCPatriot]

You guys note the post about Ninkovich at the bottom of that article? Where it says that with 28 more snaps he would be ranked #11?

Which is just ahead of Clay Matthews?!

I know, it's PFF...

PFF? Should have known they were playing with phony stats again. Come talk to me when a REAL website with actual credibility puts out an article on passrushers.

 

[ausbacker]

A few things...

I thought Cunningham and Nink both did a reasonable job last year. They both have the size and athleticism you look for, and I think with a year of experience it's not unreasonable to expect some pretty significant improvement. They are also in a position to look better because as E Belichick Unum pointed out, the players around them are pretty good. When everyone around you is doing their job, it's a lot easier for you to do yours.

Now, I know it's been a while, but I think people have forgotten what a good Belichick defense looks like. This defense has never been predicated on dominant edge players to put pressure on the QB. In this defense, it's about pressure coming from anywhere/everywhere.

If the Patriots are going to become the kind of defense we all hope they will, it's not going to be because Cunningham or whoever else is the second coming of Lawrence Taylor. It'll be because Spikes and Mayo will be our best ILB duo since the SB years. It'll be because Pat Chung will be sniffing around the box way more, and it'll be because we have two excellent corners who open up Belichick's options as a defensive play-caller.

You don't need a dominant pass rusher to win the SB. You need 11 guys who can play well and play well together.

People also tend to forget that you can't service every single team need in the space of an off-season, let alone a couple when your team is going through a massive rebuild.

Other teams have needs and are more than willing to spend big $$$ to gain those player's services. That's what makes this roster overhaul so impressive. The speed at which it's being done.

 

[Deus Irae]

People also tend to forget that you can't service every single team need in the space of an off-season, let alone a couple when your team is going through a massive rebuild.

Other teams have needs and are more than willing to spend big $$$ to gain those player's services. That's what makes this roster overhaul so impressive. The speed at which it's being done.

They've had this problem for years now, though.

 

[ausbacker]

They've had this problem for years now, though.

Granted, but out of all the 3-4 Defenses in the NFL how many of them have 1 truly elite OLB let alone 2? Schematic fits and demand for 3-4 players seems to have skyrocketed with more teams moving to the 34. That's not to say the Pats haven't fluffed through draft misses and Free Agency because they have.

 

[Deus Irae]

Granted, but out of all the 3-4 Defenses in the NFL how many of them have 1 truly elite OLB let alone 2? Schematic fits and demand for 3-4 players seems to have skyrocketed with more teams moving to the 34. That's not to say the Pats haven't fluffed through draft misses and Free Agency because they have.

I know you're probably going to disagree with me, but I refuse to give BB a pass on this, particularly since he chooses to trade down instead of staying put or trading up for a player to fill the role(s). Most of the 3-4 defenses that are there now are new to it. New England doesn't have that excuse. Belichick's been doing things like grasping at the Burgess' of the world while waiting for Shawn Crable in the 3rd round and trading away the best 3-4 DE in a generation.

 

[ausbacker]

I know you're probably going to disagree with me, but I refuse to give BB a pass on this, particularly since he chooses to trade down instead of staying put or trading up for a player to fill the role(s). Most of the 3-4 defenses that are there now are new to it. New England doesn't have that excuse. Belichick's been doing things like grasping at the Burgess' of the world while waiting for Shawn Crable in the 3rd round and trading away the best 3-4 DE in a generation.

I don't disagree with you at all, quite the opposite actually. The fundamental approach of trying to find the next Vrabel hasn't worked for the Patriots in recent years.

 

[cstjohn17]

Third down pass defense:

Mike Wright - Vince Wilfork - Eric Moore

Jermaine Cunningham - Jerod Mayo - Cliff Avril

Devin McCourty - Arrington/Butler/Wilhite - Leigh Bodden

Patrick Chung - James Sanders

That pass defense might not be bad.

That would be pretty bad, it doesn't seem like a championship defense.

With the current crew I would be suprised in nickel situations if Merriweather, Guyton, Ras Dowling and TBC are not on the field.

Does this look any better?

Ray Edwards, Wilfork, Wright, Cunningham
Mayo Guyton
McCourty, Chung, Merriweather, Ras Dowling, Bodden

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's a team game and Belichick makes the best adjustments. Sometimes that means overloading a point of weakness and risking another area.

Isolated statistics have very little significance in a game where responsibilities and emphasis can be shifted.

Yes - as I recall those who worship stats around here asserted that we were set a WR after the 2006 season with Reche Caldwell leading the way. They noted that the Patriots had one of the leading statistical offenses that season.

Anyone who watched the game rather than the stat sheets knew we needed a serious upgrade at WR in 2007 (though even the stat sheet showed how badly we needed a deep threat that season)

 

[Ring 6]

They've had this problem for years now, though.

Technically, 2 is plural.
In 2008 we had Adalius Thomas (who shifted from ILB to OLB during the previous year and had an excellent SB) and Mike Vrabel (coming off a career year) at OLB and had just spent a 3rd round pick on Crable.
Clearly we didn't have an "OLB problem" going into the 2008 season.

In 2009 we traded Vrable, brought back TBC, saw Crable miss another year, and added Ninkovich.

In 2010, we got rid of Thomas and used a 2nd rounder on Cunningham.

I don't know how 2 years of of transition is considered having a problem 'for years now'.
During that transition the Patriots won 24 games and ranked 5th and 8th in points allowed.
From opening day of that 2008 season, we have replaced 13 of the 22 starters and have only 16 players remaining on the roster from that team, including zero OLBs.

The sum of this is your claim of 'they have had this problem for years' adds up to:
2 years ago we had a probowler and a big FA signing that was expected to be at that level as well.
Then in those subsequent years while winning 24 games, we turned over at least 37 of the 53 roster spots and at least 13 of the 22 starters and acquired a full set of new players at the OLB position only using a 2nd and a 3rd, a pretty large FA contract, a trade and a number of other low level acquisition so that means it was 'ignored'.
Which positions have gotten more resources spent on them in the last 3 drafts and offseasons?