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Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by crowell33, Jun 28, 2011.

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  1. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  2. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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  3. Calciumee

    Calciumee PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  4. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    From 2008 to 2010 Matt Roth is a top 10 pass rusher in terms of effectiveness??? How exactly do most coaches in the NFL miss that?

    They rank Tamba Hali as #6 on their list but wasn't he considered somewhat of a disappointment before this year? When he was converted into a 3-4 olb..


    The problem with this list is that profootballfocus doesn't realize that a sack doesn't equal a hurry. There are plenty of guys that can hurry a QB but to actually finish the play...it's a whole different quality of player. By their list i think Jermaine Cunningham would rank among the best OLB last season before his injury. He had plenty of hurries.
  5. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Staying healthy and getting reps may be all Jermaine needs to get to next level....having a good mentor wouldn't hurt either...but hey, WTF do I know ;)
  6. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    It sort of depends exactly which need the Patriots are trying to fill.
    They could sorely use a versatile 3-4 OLB who can rush, cover, and set the edge.
    They could also use a situational disruptive pass rusher.
    Sort of two different roles.

    Versatile options:
    Manny Lawson - great speed, tall, lean, much lighter than normal Pats OLB's, great coverage (more passes defensed than the next five free agent OLB's combined), in a rotation at SF, improved in 2010
    Matt Roth - experienced 3-4 OLB, stout, lacks speed
    Mathias Kiwanuka - experienced DE/OLB, local product, good size, injured
    Mark Anderson - good size, speed, limited productivity

    Disruptive pass rusher options:
    Charles Johnson - extremely effective edge rusher, young (24) better in 4-3, very stout, would be third down pass rusher, could set edge, upside
    Jason Babin - experienced, burst, quick/agile, 30 years, not used in coverage
    Ray Edwards - experienced, perfect size, good rusher, lacks speed
  7. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    I wasn't saying anything negative about Cunningham. My point was that sacks+hurries+hits= X formula is kind of flawed.

    Let's say guy A has 10 sacks, 0 hurrires, 0 hits.

    And guy B has 0 sacks, 12 hurries, 2 hits.

    By that formula guy B would be the better rusher if they both had equal amount of snaps rushing the passer.

    A sack should be worth atleast 3 points or something like that.
  8. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    I hear ya...:D

    What if the hurries caused Int's ? How do you score it? :D

    BTW...I can't imagine a player getting 10 sacks and NO HURRIES or HITS...:bricks:

    I guess as with everything else...Figures don't lie but liars figure ..LOL
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's more complex than that: after all, I'd argue the best possible result is a sack + forced fumble. But which is better—a straight sack where the opposing team keeps the ball, or a QBH that results in an INT (see: James Sanders v. Colts, where Cunningham was a split second from sacking Manning)?
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  10. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    True but is their list based on that?

    They clearly state on that page that they divide the passrushing snaps with the sum of sacks,hurries,hits

    Do you honestly think that guys like Roth,Cris Clemons,Jason Babin,Stylez G. White and Charles Johnson are among the best pass rushers from the past 3 years?
  11. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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  12. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    My bet is the Patriots do not sign any free-agent OLB - only because everyone thinks the team needs to sign one (including me).
  13. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    There really is another consideration in all of this. A full-time pass rusher will be in on over 400 pass plays. Granted that a lot of those plays aren't real opportunities (screens, quick slants, etc.) but even cutting the number in half, a guy with 10 sacks has a 95% failure rate.

    I believe a key for the Patriots is what players do in those other 190+ snaps. Much like a "useful out" in baseball, there are many meaningful outcomes that don't show up as stats:
    - Keeping a QB contained in the pocket
    - Being physical and wearing out an OT
    - Getting hands up and disrupting the QB's line of sight
    - Requiring extra blocking focus to allow others to get better matchups
    - Engaging a RB/TE and not letting them out into their pass route cleanly

    There are probably more but you get the idea. The Pats have avoided guys that dive into the backfield with their hair on fire every play. If they just wanted sacks and "pressures", that strategy wouldn't make much sense. So they must be looking for something more in players that make up their pass rush. Getting 10 sacks but getting neatly escorted around the pocket with a single blocker on another 200 plays doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
  14. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    :agree:

    Ain't that the truth :)
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  15. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    Actually the ranking values hurries and hits at 3/4 of a sack, so sack doesn't equal a hurry just as you wish.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  16. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    Lost me on the change from 400 to 200, but, all in all, a tremendous Post.
  17. Richard Camembert

    Richard Camembert Rookie

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    You guys note the post about Ninkovich at the bottom of that article? Where it says that with 28 more snaps he would be ranked #11?

    Which is just ahead of Clay Matthews?!

    I know, it's PFF...
  18. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    what if the hurries cause TD throws?
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Yes, he was nothing special.
  20. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like PFF as long as it doesn't involve their garbage scoring system. When they stick to stats, I can handle it. And this just made my day :lol2:
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