Manning & Polian whine on new umpire position (merged)

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Sounds to me like the penalties that were called were legitimate? SO we've gone from not enough penalties being called against the big bad Patriots to too many penalties against the poor Colts, who just want to get their plays off before the D can settle in and go mano-a-mano.

Here's a thread I started this a.m. on the subject:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/471735-manning-new-umpire-position.html

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Gamesmanship is part of the game. If any team thinks it can get an advantage by petitioning the league for a change or by complaining about a rule so officials are conscious of what the team said, it's just part of being competitive as far as I can see. It sucks that it's the damn Colts who seem to do these things particularly well, but I don't have any problem with the practices.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Sounds to me like the penalties that were called were legitimate? SO we've gone from not enough penalties being called against the big bad Patriots to too many penalties against the poor Colts, who just want to get their plays off before the D can settle in and go mano-a-mano.

Here's a thread I started this a.m. on the subject:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/471735-manning-new-umpire-position.html

Who else does he have left to throw under the bus? The concession stand guy?

 

[BradyBranch39]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Polian isn't just 'some guy' though when he goes to the league to complain. He's on the competition committee, works closely with refs, and the NFL stupidly allows him to influence them.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

The Colts are such whiny little ****bags. I hope the NFL upholds the rule just to give them a big F-U. Let Polian see how it feels to have a rules change negatively impact an aspect of your team.

This!!!!

However that dbag Polian is on the comp committee and will find a way to get his way.
Bob Kraft - this needs to be a wakeup call. You need yourself or Jonathan ON that committee to protect your franchise. I'm serious! (for once)

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Call me crazy, but I think the Colts have a point. If a team wants to run the hurry up, they should be able to do so - and the officiating should not constantly be slowing them down.

it affects everyone's hurry-up the same way.

gimmicks need to be exposed for what they are

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Polian isn't just 'some guy' though when he goes to the league to complain. He's on the competition committee, works closely with refs, and the NFL stupidly allows him to influence them.

so if he's on the competition commitee, wasn't he aware of this rule change from the get go? or is he suddenly realizing its a bad rule now that peyton doesn't like it?

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

it affects everyone's hurry-up the same way.

gimmicks need to be exposed for what they are

There is nothing "gimmicky" about the hurry up offense. It is a perfectly valid and legitimate strategy. Just because the Colts happen to do it better than the rest of the league doesn't make it a "gimmick".

People are letting their hatred cloud their judgement. No one hates the Colts more than I, but I think they have a point in this issue.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

There is nothing "gimmicky" about the hurry up offense. It is a perfectly valid and legitimate strategy. Just because the Colts happen to do it better than the rest of the league doesn't make it a "gimmick".

The Colts will be the only team that gets this penalty, and even they will adapt so that it doesn't happen to them. The problem isn't the hurry up. Every team does that. The issue is that the Colts' pace isn't intended to work the clock...it is intended to draw penalties, force defensive timeouts and otherwise nibble around the edges of sportsmanship. Couple of other points:

- The rules were adjusted to allow defensive substitutions if the offense substitutes. Teams (the Colts being the worst offenders) would run subs in and then quick snap as the defense countered. That used to be a valid and legitimate strategy, but the league is better with it gone.

- I've seen the Colts snap the ball before the chains were set. If there is an incomplete pass, the return spot would just be guesswork.

- The officials return to their old position in the last 2 minutes so clock management isn't an issue.

It takes an extra 2 seconds for the official to get out of the way. Even less when the QB is under center. This is a non-issue unless your intent is gaining an advantage through douchebaggery.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

The Colts will be the only team that gets this penalty, and even they will adapt so that it doesn't happen to them. The problem isn't the hurry up. Every team does that. The issue is that the Colts' pace isn't intended to work the clock...it is intended to draw penalties, force defensive timeouts and otherwise nibble around the edges of sportsmanship. Couple of other points:

- The rules were adjusted to allow defensive substitutions if the offense substitutes. Teams (the Colts being the worst offenders) would run subs in and then quick snap as the defense countered. That used to be a valid and legitimate strategy, but the league is better with it gone.

- I've seen the Colts snap the ball before the chains were set. If there is an incomplete pass, the return spot would just be guesswork.

- The officials return to their old position in the last 2 minutes so clock management isn't an issue.

It takes an extra 2 seconds for the official to get out of the way. Even less when the QB is under center. This is a non-issue unless your intent is gaining an advantage through douchebaggery.

Sums it up very nicely. Good as Manning is, the Colts offense has also gotten away with a lot of garbage over the years. Their main complaint seems to be that the new umpire position increases the chances of them getting caught.

 

[Fencer]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

The Colts will be the only team that gets this penalty, and even they will adapt so that it doesn't happen to them. The problem isn't the hurry up. Every team does that. The issue is that the Colts' pace isn't intended to work the clock...it is intended to draw penalties, force defensive timeouts and otherwise nibble around the edges of sportsmanship. Couple of other points:

- The rules were adjusted to allow defensive substitutions if the offense substitutes. Teams (the Colts being the worst offenders) would run subs in and then quick snap as the defense countered. That used to be a valid and legitimate strategy, but the league is better with it gone.

- I've seen the Colts snap the ball before the chains were set. If there is an incomplete pass, the return spot would just be guesswork.

- The officials return to their old position in the last 2 minutes so clock management isn't an issue.

It takes an extra 2 seconds for the official to get out of the way. Even less when the QB is under center. This is a non-issue unless your intent is gaining an advantage through douchebaggery.

Good list, even though you missed the example that Manning actually confessed to in the quote -- quicksnapping so that the opposing team doesn't have time to make a replay challenge.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

The Colts will be the only team that gets this penalty, and even they will adapt so that it doesn't happen to them. The problem isn't the hurry up. Every team does that. The issue is that the Colts' pace isn't intended to work the clock...it is intended to draw penalties, force defensive timeouts and otherwise nibble around the edges of sportsmanship. Couple of other points:

- The rules were adjusted to allow defensive substitutions if the offense substitutes. Teams (the Colts being the worst offenders) would run subs in and then quick snap as the defense countered. That used to be a valid and legitimate strategy, but the league is better with it gone.

- I've seen the Colts snap the ball before the chains were set. If there is an incomplete pass, the return spot would just be guesswork.

- The officials return to their old position in the last 2 minutes so clock management isn't an issue.

It takes an extra 2 seconds for the official to get out of the way. Even less when the QB is under center. This is a non-issue unless your intent is gaining an advantage through douchebaggery.

On top of this, I just watched the Falcons put together a very successful series in the hurry up offense against the Dolphins in the first half. It's not like it can't be done.

 

[Joker]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

I've chronicled the dastardly deeds of Bill "Mephistopheles" Polian on this board for most of the past decade...this is standard operating procedure for the man behind the Manling.

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

The Colts will be the only team that gets this penalty,

I saw it twice tonight in the Saints game, and I wasn't even watching most of it.

and even they will adapt so that it doesn't happen to them. The problem isn't the hurry up. Every team does that. The issue is that the Colts' pace isn't intended to work the clock...it is intended to draw penalties, force defensive timeouts and otherwise nibble around the edges of sportsmanship.

This ain't Pop Warner. I have no problem with a team doing everything they can within the context of the rules to win whether that's the Patriots or the Colts.

Did you feel the same way when the Patriots defensive strategy was "hit the WR's as much as you can and if the refs don't call it, keep doing it"...? Was that "nibbling around the edges of sportsmanship", or was that a legitimate strategy?

- The rules were adjusted to allow defensive substitutions if the offense substitutes. Teams (the Colts being the worst offenders) would run subs in and then quick snap as the defense countered. That used to be a valid and legitimate strategy, but the league is better with it gone.

I don't think that was a terribly recent rule change.

- I've seen the Colts snap the ball before the chains were set. If there is an incomplete pass, the return spot would just be guesswork.

I've seen all teams do this.

It takes an extra 2 seconds for the official to get out of the way. Even less when the QB is under center. This is a non-issue unless your intent is gaining an advantage through douchebaggery.

Why do I have a feeling your definition of douchebaggery is "things teams not named "New England" do"..?

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Good list, even though you missed the example that Manning actually confessed to in the quote -- quicksnapping so that the opposing team doesn't have time to make a replay challenge.

You people are blind if you think the Colts are the only team that does these sorts of things.

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Indeed, New Orleans got flagged twice tonight for snapping the ball before the ref was in position.

That's unacceptable. if the ref isn't in position, that's HIS problem. He is NOT supposed to be influencing the game, yet this is exactly what he was doing tonight.

This is a damned stupid rule, and the ref ought to go back to where he was. Put him in pads and give him a helmet if he needs it, but this new position is downright pathetic.

 

[pherein]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Yea , we have to account for a lazy Ref now. Ramsey had 4 secs on the play clock when he hiked the ball, I mean come on! The QB has to worry about the play clock and some lagging ref to get into position now. you would think when the play clock is at 4 seconds the Ref would be at his mark. Unfair.

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Yea , we have to account for a lazy Ref now. Ramsey had 4 secs on the play clock when he hiked the ball, I mean come on! The QB has to worry about the play clock and some lagging ref to get into position now. you would think when the play clock is at 4 seconds the Ref would be at his mark. Unfair.

BTW: The Saints looked pretty good tonight. Here's to a great season for both our teams, and no more injuries!

NB: How's the weather in NO in January? I'm thinking about heading down there for a visit, and I would suspect the off-season rates would be fairly decent.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

When are the Colts going to approach the league about overturning Manning's interceptions come January?

 

[Wolfpack]

Re: Rule Under Review after Manning, Polian Complain

Indeed, New Orleans got flagged twice tonight for snapping the ball before the ref was in position.

That's unacceptable. if the ref isn't in position, that's HIS problem. He is NOT supposed to be influencing the game, yet this is exactly what he was doing tonight.

This is a damned stupid rule, and the ref ought to go back to where he was. Put him in pads and give him a helmet if he needs it, but this new position is downright pathetic.

The one thing that would get the commish to back down on this new umpire position is if it hurts the pace of the game. Clearly, we have seen multiple examples of it doing precisely that. I wouldn't be surprised to see some tweaking.