Manning’s receivers vs. Brady’s receivers over the years

[PatsFanSince74]

Wasn't he just on probation?

I don't usually agree much with the OP, but I think the point he is making is that the Pats once again sought out a "value" in the player market because he was viewed as risky by other teams. This is a strategy that has worked well in the past [Corey Dillon, viewed at the time as highly risky for his "attitude" (whatever that meant) is the prime example], but fat Albert and, most notably, Hernandez have shown that that is a strategy that come back to bite you.

I think the OP's point is a valid one: the Pats might have shortchanged TB this year in the name of saving a buck. We will only know if that is or is not true when the season is over.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Who gives a crap whether Manning or Brady is better? They're both great

In a world where kids go to bed hungry every night and innocent people are murdered by terrorists in a shopping mall, none of us should give a crap about that or virtually anything else about which we all love to bloviate out here.

But when two of the greatest QB's of all time are playing in the same era, for virtually the same seasons, it is a legitimate topic of discussion, for those of us who use sports to distract ourselves from weightier matters, to try to take a view on what distinguishes one of those two QB's from the other as well as how, if at all, either one might be viewed as better than the other in one or many areas.

So, yeah, in that sense, I give a crap. Sorry.

 

[Oswlek]

I was thinking the same thing the other day. Does this also suggest the Colts have done a better job drafting and retaining receivers?

Not really, when you consider that 4 of the 7 guys mentioned were first rounders. Put a higher priority on is probably a better explanation.

 

[Oswlek]

I don’t hate Manning, but I hate the fact that he is having a good season with an all pro receiving corp. all while Brady is relying on a college QB taken in the seventh round and converted to receiver, an UDFA who has spent more days in jail than a 53 man roster as his top 2 targets this season so far.

You had a nice little argument going before throwing it off course with the editorializing. Manning's receivers wouldn't look very good either if you stripped three top guys due to injury and another was arrested. It happens.

 

[Yehoodi]

Ben Watson 59 games with Brady
Danial Graham 63 games
Gronk 43
AHern 38

One team uses premium picks on TEs
The other on WRs

Do you think Manning fans are crying about all the stud TEs Brady has been given for his short pass/high % skill set

Probably not, and the hope was that perhaps those two would play with Brady for 100+ games but in the past he did not have one and the good ones were let go before 100 . . . however with this said he has not yet play 100 games with them so it does not go in the books as a 100 game combo . .. and also Ahern is not playing another game for the pats . . . so even if you try, you still need to play the 100 games, and regardless of the reason Brady has not gotten this yet . . .

Can one imagine if we kept Branch and had him throughout the 2007-2009 run and Brady did not get injured in 2008 ...

 

[Yehoodi]

In a world where kids go to bed hungry every night and innocent people are murdered by terrorists in a shopping mall, none of us should give a crap about that or virtually anything else about which we all love to bloviate out here.

But when two of the greatest QB's of all time are playing in the same era, for virtually the same seasons, it is a legitimate topic of discussion, for those of us who use sports to distract ourselves from weightier matters, to try to take a view on what distinguishes one of those two QB's from the other as well as how, if at all, either one might be viewed as better than the other in one or many areas.

So, yeah, in that sense, I give a crap. Sorry.

agreed 100% . . . yes there are much more important issues of the day . . . but it fun to discuss topics with friends or strangers . . . be it the best chocolate chip cookie recipe, best candidate or best sports player . . . this is never going to go away and the later making for a fun diversion for someone's day to day life . . .

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Doesn't matter, in fact I'd rather it go back to a rings vs stats debate then have Brady putting up 400 yards/game and keeping up with Peyton statistically. Like in 2001-2004 Brady's team appears to be better built for January while Peyton's is built for outscoring opponents and therefore stats. I think the last 6 years have shown that it's better for our team to focus on stopping opponents and playing efficiently enough on offense rather than trying to outgun them and having a defense that can be 'okay enough'.

The only important issue regarding this debate would be Peyton getting another ring without Tom getting anymore.

 

[mgcolby]

I think the OP's point is a valid one: the Pats might have shortchanged TB this year in the name of saving a buck. We will only know if that is or is not true when the season is over.

That is simply not true and I have a hard time understanding why people keep saying this.

They signed their young TE duo to long term contracts last season. They brought in three veterans to compete with the 3 rookie WR's they drafted and signed. They offered Welker fair compensation for where he is at age and skill wise, Welker chose to sit on it and shop it around. Nothing wrong with that, but that late in FA the Pats couldn't wait and pounced on a younger player to replace him. They offerred Sanders a contract that the Steelers matched....and half of their TE duo turned out to be a seriel killer (who knew?). The vets were outplayed by the rookies and Brady's top two receivers are hurt but will be back shortly to boost the offense.

I'm not sure how they saved a buck at TB's expense? The Welker argument doesn't work because as Tom Curran pointed out in an article yesterdag the Pats have received plenty of production out of the slot. They have had nearly zero production from the TE position and the WR's are producing and improving at rate that would be acceptable if we had better play from the TE's. And I would like to point out that Tom himself has left many plays out there through 3 games. Not all of this is on management, rookies and injuries.

 

[Oswlek]

That is simply not true and I have a hard time understanding why people keep saying this.

They signed their young TE duo to long term contracts last season. They brought in three veterans to compete with the 3 rookie WR's they drafted and signed. They offered Welker fair compensation for where he is at age and skill wise, Welker chose to sit on it and shop it around. Nothing wrong with that, but that late in FA the Pats couldn't wait and pounced on a younger player to replace him. They offerred Sanders a contract that the Steelers matched....and half of their TE duo turned out to be a seriel killer (who knew?). The vets were outplayed by the rookies and Brady's top two receivers are hurt but will be back shortly to boost the offense.

I'm not sure how they saved a buck at TB's expense? The Welker argument doesn't work because as Tom Curran pointed out in an article yesterdag the Pats have received plenty of production out of the slot. They have had nearly zero production from t he TE position and the WR's are producing and improving at rate that would be acceptable if we had better play from the TE's. And I would like to point out that Tom himself has left many plays out their through 3 games. Not all of this is on management, rookies and injuries.

:youtheman::clap2:eace::hail:

 

[SVN]

Firstly, I would like to point out that brady's contract is fully guaranteed. Iam sure he just negotiated his contract and not welkers.
Secondly , what this obsession of comparing manning and brady everytime manning has a good game ? Here is a fact - you are never going to win the public perception that brady > manning. Manning has the media savvy, through his personal reporters(mort) and dad and everyone else to project himself as the awesome guy who is a 'great' QB. So everyone always judges him at a different pedestal. No one will call him out. Its a losing battle.
Take a listen for e.g to yesterday's Dan patrick show opening
http://danpatrick.directv.com.edgesuite.net/Podcast/DP-Hr1_09-24-2013_stream.mp3

you would think manning is god. This is the perception and it wont change soon.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That is simply not true and I have a hard time understanding why people keep saying this.

They signed their young TE duo to long term contracts last season. They brought in three veterans to compete with the 3 rookie WR's they drafted and signed. They offered Welker fair compensation for where he is at age and skill wise, Welker chose to sit on it and shop it around. Nothing wrong with that, but that late in FA the Pats couldn't wait and pounced on a younger player to replace him. They offerred Sanders a contract that the Steelers matched....and half of their TE duo turned out to be a seriel killer (who knew?). The vets were outplayed by the rookies and Brady's top two receivers are hurt but will be back shortly to boost the offense.

I'm not sure how they saved a buck at TB's expense? The Welker argument doesn't work because as Tom Curran pointed out in an article yesterdag the Pats have received plenty of production out of the slot. They have had nearly zero production from the TE position and the WR's are producing and improving at rate that would be acceptable if we had better play from the TE's. And I would like to point out that Tom himself has left many plays out there through 3 games. Not all of this is on management, rookies and injuries.

How can something be "simply not true" when I clearly said that we won't know until the end of the season? By any logic or definition, something "unknown" can not be "not true."

And yes, the Patriots did "save a buck" in the offseason; your own comments acknowledge that. Whether it will prove to have been "at TB's expense" is what I specifically state can not be known at this time. That distinction was apparently lost on you.

For now, the best QB of his era and arguably the best QB of all time has a Pass Rating below 80 after playing nearly a quarter of the season (while still at the top of his skills), a rating shared by only eight other QB's at this point in the season. I personally am confident that Brady should end up among the top QB's in the league by the end of the season, but, for now, the weapons around him have been problematic at best.

I stand by my comment.

 

[Oswlek]

How can something be "simply not true" when I clearly said that we won't know until the end of the season? By any logic or definition, something "unknown" can not be "not true."

And yes, the Patriots did "save a buck" in the offseason; your own comments acknowledge that. Whether it will prove to have been "at TB's expense" is what I specifically state can not be known at this time. That distinction was apparently lost on you.

For now, the best QB of his era and arguably the best QB of all time has a Pass Rating below 80 after playing nearly a quarter of the season (while still at the top of his skills), a rating shared by only eight other QB's at this point in the season. I personally am confident that Brady should end up among the top QB's in the league by the end of the season, but, for now, the weapons around him have been problematic at best.

I stand by my comment.

When the team signs not one, not two but three $30+mm contracts to receivers in the past three years (in addition to several other mid-level signings and three draftees), "saving a buck" is a very difficult argument to assert.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm just laughing about how everyone is all up in arms about Manning having all the spoils right now. The Patriots are about to return one of the best tight ends of his era, along with a guy who they paid a ton more money for (Amendola) than the guy who is now with Manning (Welker.) Before the end of the season, they also plan to return Shane Vereen, a player who was starting to look a lot like a LeSean McCoy before his injury. But, hey, I'm sure the offense won't look any different with a new #1, #2, and #3 targets along with the progression of two talented rookies who are still learning the professional game.

Decker, Thomas, or Welker goes down with a knee injury and the Pats literally have better weapons than the Broncos, and that's before we even talk about the offensive lines and running games, where the Pats are clearly superior.

Can we at least wait until midway through the season before these chicken little posts? It's September.

 

[borg]

Manning is lighting it up right now with WRs that he has worked with 20 games or less. How can that be if 100 games is such an important threshold?
Face it....Manning owns the LOS scrimmage right now, dissecting defenses flawlessly....because he is good. Why is it so hard for NEers to acknowledge this.
I get it...Brady is better than Manning, the Yankees suck, and the Earth is flat.

 

[robbomango]

Manning is lighting it up right now with WRs that he has worked with 20 games or less. How can that be if 100 games is such an important threshold?
Face it....Manning owns the LOS scrimmage right now, dissecting defenses flawlessly....because he is good. Why is it so hard for NEers to acknowledge this.
I get it...Brady is better than Manning, the Jets suck, and the Earth is round.

Fixed that for ya...

 

[stevedogc]

Manning is lighting it up right now with WRs that he has worked with 20 games or less. How can that be if 100 games is such an important threshold?
Face it....Manning owns the LOS scrimmage right now, dissecting defenses flawlessly....because he is good. Why is it so hard for NEers to acknowledge this.
I get it...Brady is better than Manning, the Yankees suck, and the Earth is flat.

Now I will admit it that I have not read every single post on these boards, and I will never admit to having a conversation with all "NEers", But I have yet to see anywhere in this thread where someone makes an opinion that Peyton Manning is not a good QB. I think most knowledgable Pats fans think he is an excellent QB, myself included. Anyone claiming he is not a good QB is either 1. delusional, 2. stupid or 3. trying to get people riled up. I think most people in this thread are simply stating their opinion that the feel Tom Brady is a better (IMHO, slightly better) then Manning.

 

[Oswlek]

Manning is lighting it up right now with WRs that he has worked with 20 games or less. How can that be if 100 games is such an important threshold?
Face it....Manning owns the LOS scrimmage right now, dissecting defenses flawlessly....because he is good. Why is it so hard for NEers to acknowledge this.
I get it...Brady is better than Manning, the Yankees suck, and the Earth is flat.

Straw man 101.

 

[JackBauer]

Troll man 101.

ftfy.......

 

[lurker1965]

Who gives a crap whether Manning or Brady is better? They're both great

I thought it was 2006 again.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Manning is lighting it up right now with WRs that he has worked with 20 games or less. How can that be if 100 games is such an important threshold?
Face it....Manning owns the LOS scrimmage right now, dissecting defenses flawlessly....because he is good. Why is it so hard for NEers to acknowledge this.
I get it...Brady is better than Manning, the Yankees suck, and the Earth is flat.

Look what Brady did in 07 with players that hadn't played with him/ or did for a few games. The difference between Tom and manning in there offenses, manning is working with stud veteran receivers. Tom is working with 2 stud rookies and 2 veteran receivers. Big difference.
Brady could be controlling the best offense in the nfl by the last half of the season or few games going into the playoffs.

Manning is a great QB, but he isn't the best ever or the best in the league right now.