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Manman's Final 2013 Mock (almost, maybe?)

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by manxman2601, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    Throughout the year I've been a vocal advocate and supporter for the following:

    Markus Wheaton
    Ziggy Ansah
    Leon Mcfadden
    Jonathan Cooper
    Terron Armstead
    Justin Pugh
    Alec Ogletree


    I think it's fair to say that I've lead the charge on all the above. Unfortunately, none of them make it into my mock.

    So this is my attempt to predict what will actually happen on draft day, not necessarily what I want to happen. Below the mock are a short list of names that just missed out. I'm going to include them and also those above when I personally evaluate how I did in evaluating this draft from a Patriots perspective.

    So here you go:

    ---------------------------------------



    #29 **Trade**


    Eagles trade up for EJ Manuel giving up #35, 101


    #35 Robert Woods, WR, USC


    I'm starting to think that Woods is arguably the best fit of all the receivers in this class. Whilst he might lack the character and combine measurables of Markus Wheaton (who I have as a close second behind Woods), Woods fits well in so many areas. One big area of concern for me was Woods' poor 3-cone at the combine but that is likely an after effect of his ankle issue because his 6.83 at his pro-day puts him comfortably back in the range the Patriots would be comfortable with.

    Prior to the 2012 season, it was common knowledge that the receiver BB wanted was Reggie Wayne rather than Brandon Lloyd. I see Woods fitting squarely between those two receivers in how he projects to the NFL. He has Wayne's ability to maneuver his body to make the catch and Wayne's ability to gain separation. He might never be as good as Wayne, few will be, but I feel confident that, at least by year two, he'll be a better receiver than Lloyd - Woods is always looking to gain that extra yard which is not something that can be said of Lloyd.

    So I love Wheaton as a personality and as a receiver but with this mock, I'm trying to find the right value overall and that gives Woods the edge.



    #59 Kiko Alonso, LB, Oregon

    The WILL is a position the Patriots have looked at both last year and this and this, they've looked at almost every available one in the first three rounds. Alonso is very good dropping back in either zone or in man coverage on a TE or RB and is a hair on fire player coming forward - sometimes a detriment to his play - he will need to learn greater discipline. But Alonso offers one of the best combinations of coverage ability and three down capabilities which will be important if Spikes isn't re-signed at the end of the coming season. In fact, Alonso's aggression reminds me of Spikes and I can see him being as important in the run game as Spikes long-term.



    #91 Barrett Jones, OL, Alabama


    This is the Nick Saban endorsement pick. Two years ago it was Ridley, last year it was probably Hightower and this year it's the Captain that is talked of like a favourite son would be by Saban. There are other linemen I like more in terms of athleticism and playing ability but Jones wins through on intelligence and intangibles. He'll only ever be a starter at Center but that's exactly where you want him with his abilities to recognize defensive schemes and organise assignments. The Brady/Mayo of our OL.


    #101 Marquess Wilson, WR, Washington State


    I was ready to put Josh Boyce in this slot, in fact he was locked in as far as I was concerned until I went back to look at Wilson again. Question: Why on earth would a team take Justin Hunter in the first/second when they can have Wilson in the fourth/fifth?

    Well the most obvious answer is clearly Wilson's character. Is he a quitter? That's the question that matters most and is the most decisive factor in determining whether he's draftable or not. But we don't know the full details of the incident that saw him quitting school and nor are we privy to his interviews. All we do know, is that he, at least, got to first base with the Patriots in that he earned a private workout.

    There are two other major problems with his game. Firstly, his tape features some of the worst drops I've seen by a WR. He's also completely lacking any ability to be physical in game; he's as finesse as they come.

    So why did he displace Boyce? Well firstly, that finesse I talked about is as beautiful as it gets. Whether it's catching the ball or running with it, Wilson is as smooth as the finest whiskey. He also has elite body control. He can turn himself inside out in order to catch the ball. Despite his lack of strength, Wilson might be the best in class at beating press coverage and only Austin and Patterson can beat him at being able to run with the ball in his hands.

    In answer to my earlier question, whilst the question of his character is something that needs to be resolved, there is no way I'd take Hunter that high when I can have Wilson here. Wilson is the better all-round receiver and certainly the better fit for the Patriots. In our offense, I think he has elite level upside.


    #226 Kayvon Webster, CB, USF

    Excellent run defender at the CB spot with terrific athleticism. He looks much better in press than he does in zone coverage. Very physical and should be a quality special teamer who backs up Dennard and Talib in year one. Has the size and athleticism to be a genuine contender for Talib's role in year two.




    #235 Jordan Kovacs, S, Michigan


    Over-achiever, leader and highly respected by his team-mates. May never be more than a backup and special teams player, but with his character and desire, he'll be damned good at both. Ideal locker-room fit and arguably the most Patriot-type prospect available.


    Just Missed:

    The following are prospects that I could equally see being picked Thursday as those in my mock:


    Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon State,
    Josh Boyce, WR, TCU
    Ryan Swope, WR, TAMU

    David Bakhtiari, OL, Colorado
    Justin Pugh, OL, Syracuse

    Lerentee McCray, DE, Florida

    jon Bostic, LB, Florida

    Tyrann Mathieu, CB, LSU
    Sanders Commings, CB, Georgia

    Josh Evans, S, Florida
    Philip Thomas, S, Fresno State


    I've only predicted the one trade because predicting anything other than a trade down from the first is next to impossible.

    I'd appreciate your thoughts.
  2. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rookie

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    This mock is beautiful. I too struggle with who i want and who the pats would want.

    So many receivers but woods does seem like the best fit. He has that shiftiness to run trick plays and option routes, but big enough to play outside.

    Kiko has been on my radar as well. I love his intensity. I actually like the fact that he's a little overaggressive because we seem to strip players of their freelancing to a certain degree. I just can't get a feel for what round he will be taken.

    Barrett is ridiculously underrated at the moment. After Cooper, I feel he gets to the second level extremely well. He's a little weak but I've seen Scar strengthen weaker guys.

    Wilson is a wildcard for me, but worth it this late in the draft. I love his height,speed, and quickness but not his strength. I think he needs to put on some weight so he will stop dropping the ball when hit in the back.

    Lastly your 7ths look like they will at least compete to make the squad.

    Once again, great job. If the draft was to fall like this I would give it an A.
  3. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    Can't get better than an A. Many thanks for those kind words.

    Interesting your thought on where Alonso will be taken. With the probable exception of Webster, I've erred on the side of over drafting these guys because it's impossible to truly predict where they fall and impossible to predict trades in the later rounds. These are they guys I predict BB to draft and he'll have a better understanding of their true value to NFL teams so rather than optimistically expecting to fall in to nice spots, I've just made sure I got them realistically.
  4. Username

    Username Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    I would be ecstatic with that draft. I'm a huge Robert Woods fan, I think he's the best overalll WR in this class and Kiko Alonso is NFL ready. I've been surprised at how under the radar he's been in some respects.
  5. Blackluck

    Blackluck Rookie

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    I like both receivers a lot and would be thrilled if they were drafted. Woods, Allen or Bailey I think can step in and contribute right away.

    But, while Jones and Kiko both address areas we need depth/upgrade, I think that leaves us too thin in the back end - we're one pulled hamstring away from disaster back there. Cannon can play guard, and we can get a late round/UFDA to let Scar work his magic on. We've had decidedly less success developing DBs.

    At the Jones pick, I'd probably go with someone like Will Davis instead. While measurables aren't everything, he had a 4.43 40, 4.02 shuttle and 6.52 cone (by far the best at the combine.)

    I really thought we would take a cover/athletic LB last year (one of L. David, B. Wagner, etc.) but alas we didn't. This years crop looks inferior to them, and while I don't want to over value the A. Wilson signing, I think that gives us some insurance covering TE/RB. That said, a cover LB is definitely an area we need and I'd not be against taking one anyway (that or a big safety.)
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I like the trade, and the first two picks. Woods will be a great help to this offense, and as you say, Alonso's skill set is well needed.

    After that, we diverge a bit. There's no arguing Jones's talent, but during the offseason, I've spoken with two people who evaluate offensive linemen (and non-Patriot fans) and both told me that Wendell was one of the top 10 centers in the league last year. He makes up for some physical shortcomings with an uncanny knack of what's going on around him and is always in the proper position. I don't see the point of upgrading here, at this cost, where there are other holes such as corner, defensive line, or even another receiver.

    I'd rather have Boyce than Wilson at that spot, McCree is fine, and the two late DBs do nothing for me. I think a QB like Tuel is likely, and a lineman on either side of the ball for practice squad purposes would be more desireable, but clearly that's my preference.

    This is a good, realistic-looking mock. Kudos.
  7. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I like it! I agree that Woods is probably the best fit at WR with his ability to play inside and outside. I also see him as a Percy Harvin type player that can line up anywhere and do a lot of things. I'm not a huge fan of the Kiki Alonso pick but I can live with it. I love the Jones and Wilson picks, I think they are both quality players that will be solid contributors with the potential for even more. The one thing I will say is I don't think Webster makes it to the 7th round. I completely agree with your assesment of him as a player and really like his skill set, but I think he will probably go in the 4th/5th round because of that. ESPN Scouts Inc (who I think are generally pretty good with their rankings) have him as the #14 CB, but ahead of guys like Jordan Poyer and David Amerson. If he is there in the 7th though he will be a steal. Great job!
  8. Leemo

    Leemo Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Love it, swap Wilson with Da'Rick Rogers and its a dream draft IMO.

    Top work.
  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey


    I actually had David Bakhtiari as my pick instead of Barrett Jones because he can backup every position on the OL. But two things changed my mind. Firstly the knowledge that in mre than half the years that BB has been with the Pats and Saban has been coaching in CFB, BB has picked a Saban player. And in one of the years he didn't, he picked Ridley who came off the back of a Saban recommendation. The second is this excellent article on Barrett Jones:

    2013 NFL draft - Alabama's Barrett Jones - ESPN The Magazine - ESPN

    In particular, this jumped out:

    That is a BB pick through and through. I agree with you about Wendell and actually think OG is the greater position of need but I'm thinking in terms of what BB wants and Jones has that leadership BB loves. One other consideration; in two to four years we'll be transitioning an new and probably young QB into the offense. Having a vet like Barrett Jones there will take so much pressure off.

    Tuel's a great choice and would be one of my likely UDFA predictions which I'll get around too.
  10. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    Easy on the self-congratulatory noise, Manx, old dog: It's embarrassing. :blush:

    And it also wrong. :snob:

    You most likely shouted longer and louder within the confines of PatsFans on those guys ~ I have no reason to doubt that you did ~ but you haven't "lead" anything. [​IMG]

    Your have undoubtedly contributed more to the Draft Forum this Year than anyone, since Brother Mayo has taken his Leave of Absence...For that you ought be thanked and congratulated. :cool:

    But I feel it shows great disrespect for the other major contributors here to declare your having "lead the charge": The guys in this MiniForum are Thinking Men, for the most part, who come to their own conclusions, and may very well feel stronger about any and all of those Prospects you're claiming "Leadership" on, and may well have better insight than you on any and all'f'm, expressed or otherwise.

    For the record: I don't really count myself among "major contributors". It's no secret that I've dramatically reduced my Role. But I cringed on the behalf of the others, when I read your words...

    Forgive the lecture. Your contributions and Insight are outstanding. Indeed, I've been astonished at how many of my own Pet Picks are held in equally lofty regard by you. Only Brother Mayo, himself, impresses me more.

    It just comes off ~ to me, anyway ~ as arrogant, and as dismissive and disrespectful of the others, when you claim to've "lead the charge" on all those guys. And I'm sure that's not your intention.

    Nobody likes to crow about their "Hits" more than I, but I've always been careful never to claim to've "Lead" my Fellow FootBall Draft Fanatics, only that nobody pounded the table more for a guy than I did: the implication being that I assume that I and others ~ usually many others ~ were tied in our Enthusiasm. :p

    In other words: I neither "lead" nor was "lead."

    It's a fine point, to be sure, but an important one, I think. Respectfully submitted. :cool:

    *By the way: You might want to request that the Mods take a look at your Title for you. ;)
  11. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey


    Ugh! There was nothing self-congratulatory about what I said, I was just ackowledging that those were my favourite prospects that I'd advocated for more loudly than others. "lead the charge" is a turn of phrase and I've never claimed any authority in respect to these prospects or any other matter. It's very rewarding when someone else likes a prospect that I like because of my arguments but I've never claimed any authority because of it.

    As for "dismissive" and "disrespectful", well I'll put that down to a misunderstanding on your part because that is so laughably not me. I'm a novice when it comes to the Patriots and the draft and my main reason for doing what I can to help keep this forum going in the absence of Mayo is that I learn so much from all the other contributors without having to delve into the oft-pettiness of the main forum.
  12. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    - I've come totally around on Robert Woods and now think that he might actually be a very nice fit for us. Picking up #101 to move to 35 to pick him works for me as well..

    - You are a much greater risk taker than I. I worry about Kiko Alonso's past as much as I value the skill set that he brings. Marquess Wilson is not on my board.

    - With 5 (now 6 picks in your mock) Barrett Jones is a little reach in terms of his value to us. Great charactor player. I would not be disappointed for us to draft Jones, it's just not the direction I would want us to go. As far as a "Saban Binky", I'd be happier using the Kovacs pick on Robert Lester.

    Basically, I'm just out here picking nits. I would not be unhappy with your draft.
  13. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    Normally Wilson wouldn't be on my draft board either. Everything north of my neck screams "NOOOO!!" when it comes to Wilson. But every time I watch him, more than every other binky save Jonathan Cooper, I'm just blown away by the elegance of his play and what I think he could be in this offense. There's a far greater chance that he'll bust than be a success but my God! what a success he might be.
  14. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    A couple of thoughts...

    1. Not a big fan of Wilson, but I'd take a flyer on him in the 4th. If that were to happen, though, I would hope that the team re-signs Lloyd if for nothing else, as insurance.

    2. Love the selection of Woods in the first. Is manx finally coming around to taking a WR early, or have I just missed it? ;)

    3. What are we doing with the DE need here? Are you assuming the team finally brings in Abraham or are you comfortable with Ninkovich again?

    4. Not big on the coverage LB with our second pick in the draft, but you've always put more of a priority on that than I have. At least you've selected two receivers and a guard in the meantime.

    5. Like the late selection of Webster. He's a physical corner that could come in and sub for Arrington should injury occur right away.

    ***In all, I would be very happy with this draft if it came with the acquisition of Abraham and a re-signing of Lloyd. Well done.
  15. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    I've always liked the WR early, heck in one mock I had us taking Wheaton in the first round :) .

    I do think BB will want to go veteran DE with Abraham or Freeney and we do have quite a few so so pass-rushers on the team already so I don't think BB will take a DE just because he thinks we need a DE, he'll take one if the right skill-set is there. Otherwise we just end up with another Jake Bequette. In other words, I'm not going to force one in just for the sake of it - I know that's not what you're suggesting - but it's just not a desperate need as a roster spot to fill.
  16. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I like this draft on balance (minus the Barrett Jones pick), but I really think they need to pick up another DE/DT pass rusher as the #2 priority after WR. Otherwise I don't think it really matters what changes we make at coverage LB/secondary; if the opposing QB is doing home improvement projects in the pocket again this season, we're screwed.
  17. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I've had this feeling, and it's nothing more than that, that they know Spikes is gone at the end of the year and if a Mallet to Cleveland trade should come to fruition it will include Spikes who will be given an extension by Lombardi. Again pure conjecture on my part.

    I like your draft minus Woods. Maybe I've developed a bias against players on USC's offense but I'd still rather have Wheaton, Patton, Hopkins or Allen.
  18. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    1 ~ Of course it was self-congratulatory. C'MON!! :rolleyes:

    Words mean things.

    You were declaring "leadership" on all those Prospects, and the only way to interpret that is as domineering.

    "Lookit ME!! I'm ManxMan!!" :D :rocker:

    ...Or "ManMan", evidently. [​IMG]

    2 ~ Hey, we're all Aspiring Alpha Males, here.

    I'm not calling you an A Hole.

    And I certainly never mentioned "authority". :confused:

    I'm merely suggesting that you ease up on the Chest-Beating. ;)

    Vaya Con Dios, Brother Manx. :cool:
  19. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    #24 Jersey

    If you say so. As far as I'm concerned, and I should know as I wrote it, "lead the charge" merely means that I was the most vocal and earliest supporter for those named prospects.

    Anyway, moving on.
  20. zimmy

    zimmy Rookie

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    I'm not a huge fan of Robert Woods as a Pats fit. I think he does his best work in the slot, which is not what we need, while he doesn't either have the speed or the size to be the threat we need on the outside. We've all repeatedly said we need a deep threat, and I think we either get that through pure speed or through having a big bodied receiver. Woods is neither one.

    Would prefer Wheaton or Rogers later on and then take one of the corners or Arthur Brown. Just my opinion obviously. Perhaps Woods was playing hurt and is faster/ stronger than I give him credit for. I like the Wilson and Alonso picks though.

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