Mangini's Role: NY Daily News Today [merged]

[Born in the Bronx]

I personally applaud Mr. Mangini for bringing this to light after his devasting loss to the Patriots and not when he knew this was happening behind the scenes during his tenure here.

That's what makes it so great!

Belichick apologists, there's no spinning this one. He's a cheater. If Barry Bonds said, "but everyone else takes steroids too" it doesn't mean he's not a cheater himself.

Belichick is the bad guy here, not Mangini, not the Jets, not the Colts, not football people around the league who are now bashing Belichick, not the media, etc...

 

[Born in the Bronx]

Prince Peyton!

Wasn't he the guy that led his team to the biggest comeback in league championship history (for the Patriots though, it's the biggest collapse in league championship history)?

 

[njpatsfan]

.... the biggest collapse in league championship history)?

I think that honor has been definitively claimed by the 2004 Yankees.

R

 

[DW Toys]

Wasn't he the guy that led his team to the biggest comeback in league championship history (for the Patriots though, it's the biggest collapse in league championship history)?

Your right and it cost Bill Pollian plenty of money. Wonder why the back judge concerned with the blatant PI miss in the back of the endzone is driving a new blue Porsche? Three obvious calls make the Black Sox scandal look like a tea party. If the "horse" shoe was on the other foot, Pollian would have just changed the rules once more. Simple.

The Pats were beat by a team with superior talent that day but they had some help.
Did any Colt fan see BB crying about this?

Was Pollian screaming foul when we beat him the last three times?

Credit your coach. He is a gentleman. I do like the man.

Wait a minute, when we won we must have taped the d-calls while the Colts were taping ours.
I believe the score is still 3-1 and our serve.
DW Toys

 

[ColtsTroll]

I don't know what King said, but Tiki Barber, who's actually played a few downs in the NFL, said on Sirius last night that every team steals signals and everybody knows it. Our punishable offense was taping, which is against the rules and for which Eric Mangini turned us in.

Goodell's problem is that the incident exposed the broadly accepted cheating that goes on in the league and he has to react strongly. Mangini did no one a favor by his actions: the patriots (obviously), the league (by putting cheating on the table) and himself (by going public with the NYC media instead of turning in the evidence and letting the league handle the matter).

I'm willing to predict that this will ultimately backfire on Mangini.

I think I agree with you. I don't think Barber said anything new. Who among us hasn't at one point explained to a female why the coordinators cover their mouths? Everyone knows they are preventing lip reading from opposing coaches.

However, I think Goodell's problem isn't so much that it exposed an accepted practice, I think he's really angry that a coach would have the gall to blatantly cross the line of accepted practice and make a mockery of the rules. It's a commissioner's worst nightmare. The patriots are a storied franchise that comes w/ a prime-time audience. Gotta protect the integrity of the product. This would be just as bad if it were the Colts.

 

[DW Toys]

That's what makes it so great!

Belichick apologists, there's no spinning this one. He's a cheater. If Barry Bonds said, "but everyone else takes steroids too" it doesn't mean he's not a cheater himself.

Belichick is the bad guy here, not Mangini, not the Jets, not the Colts, not football people around the league who are now bashing Belichick, not the media, etc...

Well no other team got caught. Mangini is doing it too but this is settling some scores. Yep. He is the bad guy!

Our camera kid needs to run faster. I understand the Jets camera guy does a 4.3 40?

I'll bet you would take BB to coach your team any day, huh?
DW Toys

 

[cblesz]

I think that honor has been definitively claimed by the 2004 Yankees.

R

Ah ha ha...beautiful....

 

[ColtsTroll]

So it seems like we tape it for future use, doesn't sound like anything we could use in a game.

Agreed. But that isn't the point. Whether you cheat now or in the future isn't the issue here. Besides, who's to say signals taped in the previous meeting weren't used for Sunday's game? This is the big problem now. Every victory under the Belichick era will now come into question.

 

[ColtsTroll]

This has been discussed in other threads, but Peter King had an interview with Rex Ryan before the Ravens/Colts game in last year's playoffs. Ryan said he had to change his signals because the Colts were so good at stealing signals. Also, I believe King was on a radio show yesterday saying the Colts were very good at stealing signals.

Well, the colts are the smartest franchise statistically speaking.

In all seriousness, Peyton constantly changes the audible calls because his calls have been stolen by the defensive players. The Ravens and you guys were particularly good at this. And that's okay, because it's part of the territory.

The league knows this goes on, there is no way to stop this and therefore no rule against it. There is, however, a rule against using electronic equipment for espionage.

This is the reason why QBs now have the little green dot on their helmets. Because the league suspects coaches have mic'd up players other than the QB (gee, i wonder which team?). If they check your helmet and find a mic there and no green dot behind it, that player and team is in trouble.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Well, the colts are the smartest franchise statistically speaking.

In all seriousness, Peyton constantly changes the audible calls because his calls have been stolen by the defensive players. The Ravens and you guys were particularly good at this. And that's okay, because it's part of the territory.

The league knows this goes on, there is no way to stop this and therefore no rule against it. There is, however, a rule against using electronic equipment for espionage.

This is the reason why QBs now have the little green dot on their helmets. Because the league suspects coaches have mic'd up players other than the QB (gee, i wonder which team?). If they check your helmet and find a mic there and no green dot behind it, that player and team is in trouble.

I beleive the green dot rule came out of the Dolphin situation, correct?

 

[TealSox]

(e-mail to a friend)

Freaking ridiculous!

So it appears that the problem isn't so much with the stealing of signals, but with the way it was done. Former players like Tiki Barber, Lincoln Kennedy, etc all know this stuff goes on and have acknowledged its presence in the last few days. This is nothing new. Lip readers have been hired to see what the opposing coaches are calling. Players have been acquired for the sole purpose of gaining insight on that players former team. Last year the Dolphins said they acquired audio of Brady's protection schemes, which cost them homefield advantage in the playoffs. The Colts have been rumored to still signals, not to mention they have been accussed of piping in artificial noise to gain an advantage.

And lets not act like Bill is above taking advantage of the system. If anyone thought he was a saint, you might want to check his track record with mistresses lately. This is the same guy that made sure the grass was grown out at Gillette. The same guy that let the conditions get horrible on the field so the passing game of the Colts wouldn't be as successful. He is the coach of the team that had defensive backs mugging the Colts wide receivers four years ago in the playoffs, which lead to a change in or enforcement of "illegal contact".

This is football, not baseball.

We are less concerned with players using steriods. We don't have records that are "cherished". We don't have to answer questions or be labeled as a bad guy for going full speed and playing hard (see Pete Rose and Ty Cobb). We want to see guys hit each other, while we don't want to see players get hurt permanently. We are less concerned with the length of a players career and more concerned with how much he contributed when he was playing. It isn't about being on one team like it is in baseball, it is about getting better (and not older). We love the draft. The NFL draft is awesome. The NFL fantasy football is awesome. The games are more exciting, flat out! Lets look at football for what it is and not what other sports are and try to hold it to those levels.

So Mangini looks like a rat by calling out something that everyone knew existed. Maybe that makes him a hero for getting the balls to speak up or maybe he becomes the fall guy for publically exposing the cat and mouse game that has always taken place in the shadows of the game itself. I don't even know if he wanted this attention and I'm beginning to wonder if Belichick was afraid Mangini would expose him when he left, especially because he was still in the division. Maybe Belichick should had shelved the camera man for the game and maybe Mangini should had sent Bill a message telling him he knows the deal and not to try it.

In the end, there are a lot of "maybes".

This takes nothing away from what the team has done and only little on what it will do. Bill didn't fund a dog fighting ring or kill any dogs. He might have come between a marriage or two. And maybe in light of the current situation, he isn't a genius, but being a genius is sometimes in the level of success and not how the success is accomplished. I personally think it is near genius to have done this (if he has done this for a long time) without being caught and using it to win games.

P.S. Would Mangini have a head coaching gig if such "cheating" didn't make him look so good as a secondary coach and defensive coordinator? Would Crennel have a job under the same conditions? How about Weis? Would Ty Law be worth all that much if he was assumed to have benefitted from cheating and not talent? The list goes on!

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think many teams illegally film the opposing coaches during a game. The fact that they were already warned about this by the league (in the offseason) makes it even worse. Belichick is a legendary HOF coach, but his legacy will be somewhat tainted by his actions.

I would like to take this moment to officially congratulate the newly crowned winners of Super Bowl 36, the St. Louis Rams.

How could they have been warned in the off-season when no previous charges were brought? DOH..

Its also pretty stupid of you to make statements like the Pats will have to forfeit SBs. Not gonna happen.

The Pats are going to get a slap on the wrist. Nothing more. Because Gooddell knows that "cheating" is rampant in the league. I guess you need to be reminded that the Dolphins mic'd thier players last year and stole Brady's audible calls. They admitted to it and what happened? NOTHING. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Yet, miccing a player up is only supposed to be done by the networks, not teams.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wasn't he the guy that led his team to the biggest comeback in league championship history (for the Patriots though, it's the biggest collapse in league championship history)?

Actually, it wasn't the biggest collapse in LEAGUE Championship history. But, i'm not surprised that a troll like yourself doesn't know the difference.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The post was too long to quote, but here's what you're facing if your Mangini.

Dr. Z (whatever we might think of him) just put you at 26 in the Power Rankings.

You're most likely going to leave Baltimore 0--2 on Sunday evening.

You get the Dolphins at home the next week, but your next three games are away at the Bills and Giants, home to the Eagles and at Cincinnati.

So, you have a good chance of starting the season 1--6 or 2--5.

You're in a position where distractions are a good thing...

 

[ColtsTroll]

I beleive the green dot rule came out of the Dolphin situation, correct?

I believe it was instituted because of too many fake FG plays last season. Teams would line up to kick it and the league suspects the holder--often times a backup QB--would be told to throw it based on what the coaches saw on the field. I guess only 1 player can have it at any time so this way the holders aren't getting instructions from the coaches.

I know the league is thinking about adding 1 player to the d as well. Not sure if they would designate which player or if they'll leave it up to the coaches. I'm guessing MLBs and Safeties would be the logical choice.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Re: Mangini's Role: NY Daily News Today

I expect the way it'll go down is :

Belichick and Kraft will tell Goodall that they will stay quiet and take a reasonable punishment FOR VIDEOTAPING like good boys and move on. But they'll make him aware that if he tries to slam the Patriots to take any "cheating" pressure accusations off the league then they will talk - maybe not now but later. Kind of like a plea bargain - reasonable punishment and we won't blow the sh!t off of your league.

That's a very plausible scenario.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Robert Kraft would really impress me if he fired Belichick.

I'll take a high draft pick or two, though.

Sorry, Bronxy, you're 0-2.

Belichick isn't going anywhere.

And you're not getting anything in the draft. If the league feels the need to approach this with draft pick(s), the league will simply confiscate the pick(s).

That's how it works.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Mangini's Role: NY Daily News Today

I expect the way it'll go down is :

Belichick and Kraft will tell Goodall that they will stay quiet and take a reasonable punishment FOR VIDEOTAPING like good boys and move on. But they'll make him aware that if he tries to slam the Patriots to take any "cheating" pressure accusations off the league then they will talk - maybe not now but later. Kind of like a plea bargain - reasonable punishment and we won't blow the sh!t off of your league.

I don't know how the penalty phase will go down, but I think that Kraft will have considerable leverage in the dialogue.

I also think that this will put any rule breaking or cheating by any team in the spotlight for the rest of the season. I just can't imagine that Goodell is happy about any of this and, while the Patriots are the "guilty" party in this case, that he can't be all that happy with Mangini for airing this out.