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ManFredo and Pioli possible Dolphins GM candidates.


Nothing you said has anything to do with what I wrote. I said they shouldn't hire proven failures. That doesn't mean they should hire a "nice guy who doesn't demand more".

So I guess they should hire a "mean guy who demands more" who has failed repeatedly? Did Mangini "demand more" in NY and Cleveland? Is that why he was so successful?

Nice strawman argument.

And some of them became rich because they inherited it or got extremely lucky.

They were your words, feel free to change them if you have reconsidered.
You criticized them as control freaks with mini reigns of terror.
A HC/GM is normally a control freak if he is successful.
Your description of them as failures is ludicrous, but you know that.
Pioli was as successful here as any peer he has.
Mangini, first of all has never been a GM so I don't understand how you think he failed at it. Mangini was very successful as an assistant coach, enough to become a coordinator and then a 35 yo HC. He succeeded enough in his first job that when the Jets made a bad decision to fire him, he was scooped up immediately. His tenure in Cleveland was no less successful that what came before or after.

Which owners are you saying were lucky (lol) or inherited their money and never ran a successful business therefore having less business acumen and ability to determine the type of personality that would succeed in running a business than you?
 
re: Andy: Well Pioli wasn't a GM here so of course

He acted as a GM in terms of responsibilities, even if BB was in charge.
You can give GM duties to a guy even if he reports to the HC.
 
I would choose Mangini. As I stated in another thread, he is a good talent evaluator. Sucks with people - but so does Pioli. Both would be solid choices for Miami.

Previous poster mentioned good KC drafts.... even Tyson Jackson : much maligned, but still playing for them.

Check out the players Mangini found in both NYJ and with Cleveland. Many solid picks and I have to think he had tonnes of input. They should make Mangini the player evaluator and find some President to talk to the press.
 
They were your words, feel free to change them if you have reconsidered.
You criticized them as control freaks with mini reigns of terror.
A HC/GM is normally a control freak if he is successful.
Your description of them as failures is ludicrous, but you know that.
Pioli was as successful here as any peer he has.
Mangini, first of all has never been a GM so I don't understand how you think he failed at it. Mangini was very successful as an assistant coach, enough to become a coordinator and then a 35 yo HC. He succeeded enough in his first job that when the Jets made a bad decision to fire him, he was scooped up immediately. His tenure in Cleveland was no less successful that what came before or after.

Which owners are you saying were lucky (lol) or inherited their money and never ran a successful business therefore having less business acumen and ability to determine the type of personality that would succeed in running a business than you?
Johnson of the Jets inherited money. I never said I had a better business acumen than the others. I'm not an nfl owner. Another straw man. Lol. Guess I see why you're on so many ignore lists. Lol.

Both Mangini and Pioli both failed pretty badly. Mangini got fired after a few mediocre years only to get fired again. He was a control freak to the extent it didn't accomplish much but alienate his own players.

Somehow you twist this into "taking responsibility and being decisive." Whatever. Don't bother replying you're on ignore.
 
Johnson of the Jets inherited money.

He also has been chief executive of an investment firm since 1978, but if you want to count him, OK, thats one.

I never said I had a better business acumen than the others.
Critiquing 'rich guys' decisions as if you know better is the same thing.
 
I would choose Mangini. As I stated in another thread, he is a good talent evaluator. Sucks with people - but so does Pioli. Both would be solid choices for Miami.

Previous poster mentioned good KC drafts.... even Tyson Jackson : much maligned, but still playing for them.

Check out the players Mangini found in both NYJ and with Cleveland. Many solid picks and I have to think he had tonnes of input. They should make Mangini the player evaluator and find some President to talk to the press.

I think the sucks with people part is overrated. Many would say BB sucks with people but no one listens because he wins. If every player who plays for a coach likes him, then he is doing something wrong.
Many people are motivated by being pushed to do better, but don't like it when it is happening.
 
I think the sucks with people part is overrated. Many would say BB sucks with people but no one listens because he wins. If every player who plays for a coach likes him, then he is doing something wrong.
Many people are motivated by being pushed to do better, but don't like it when it is happening.

Didn't he take the whole team on a long bus ride to some kids' football camp ? By "sucks with people" I am including 'doing things that don't sit well with adults trying to do their job'. But - again - I would endorse him as GM if I cared about the Dolphins.
 
Didn't he take the whole team on a long bus ride to some kids' football camp ? By "sucks with people" I am including 'doing things that don't sit well with adults trying to do their job'. But - again - I would endorse him as GM if I cared about the Dolphins.

A good coach has to do things that are unpopular to the players in order to make them better. Citing something that may or may not have happened as a team building exercise without context is hard to draw any conclusion from.
I am sure you can find players who will complain about his style, management and leadership, and you could for BB as well. They are the point of discipline not a friend.
If I remember correctly the story you are referring to was written by a guy who was angry over being cut while at the same time admitting he wasn't in shape enough to play, so that should be taken with a grain of salt.
Not sure I comdemn the leader over the dissatisfaction of a guy who was around for 2-3 weeks and didn't contribute anything.
 
Hmm. I had forgotten the context. You're right. And, obviously, a good leader isn't always chummy with everyone.

Long story short, Mangini would be a good talent evaluator.
 
Who else would? The traditional structure is that the GM is the HCs boss.
If you want a different structure it really isn't a GM.

Yes, I guess that I am attacking the "traditional structure". It strikes me as a case in which American sports have taken over something from baseball which probably makes sense there, since most of the action lies in the personnel department but is intrinsically dysfunctional.

Again, traditionally, the HC reports to the GM. The GM judges if he did a good job with the resources he was given.

That's the problem. The GM judges if he did a good job with the resources given by whom? The GM!

Everyone has to have a boss.

Absolutely. But why does it have to be a GM who is also a personnel guy? After all, since BB is both coach and GM, his boss is Mr Kraft.

I don't understand. You say the owners are not knowledgable enough to make the decision but they should make it any way?
Traditionally, the owner hires his 'football guy' also known as the GM. HC reports to GM,
GM reports to owner.
I'm not saying that hierarchy is the only way, but it is what has always been the norm. You seem to want to just eliminate the GM.

I think that it makes a lot of sense for the owner to have a "football guy" to advise him, but see no reason why that should be a GM who is also responsible for personnel and hence has a clear conflict of responsibilities.

(By the way, British soccer has always been very different: everything flows through a manager who reports to a Board of Directors of the club. The Chairman of the Board may or may not be the largest shareholder. Recently, there have been attempts to introduce a "Director of Football" between the board and the manager, but the record hasn't been good -- it's only led to conflicts about who has authority over what, it seems.)
 
Pioli was stuck with the KC scouts for his first draft. It was already a weak draft, and Pioli suffered for the combination. The rest of his drafts produced

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Asamoah
Moeaki
Lewis

Hudson
Houston
Bailey
Powe

Poe
Allen
Stephenson
Hemingway

All of the above are still in the NFL and haven't been bouncing around (unlike Wylie, who I left off the list). All the above, except Arenas, are still on the Chiefs. Most are starters, and those that aren't either split starts or were rotational players. Each of those three drafts produced at least one All-Pro or Pro Bowl type player.

I'm with you on the coaches, though. Bad choices there, and at O.C., killed his tenure.

Understood on 2009. But he was GM and had final say so he should be held somewhat accountable. For example, if he thought Tyson Jackson was going to stink he should have said no. To your point, in 2000 BB was already behind the 8-ball. Under the circumstances, they did pretty well in getting some decent role players and doing "ok" with the 199th pick..:D

My initial perception was that Pioli "hit" on a number of players but missed grossly on others like Arenas , Tyson Jackson and Balwin. I agree though. Overall Pioli did a pretty decent job in the drafts. Everyone misses on players they thought would produce.

I think he did a decent job in acquiring Matt Cassell. With Weis as OC he had a very good year. In 2011, W/O Weis and the injuries to Moeki, Charles and Jones and him hurting his hand didnt help.
 
Weird how these rich guys would rather hire proven failures than someone new. Mangini and Pioli were both control freaks. Both had mini reigns of terror at their respective jobs.

They did.

Pioli worse than Mangini.
 
Yes, I guess that I am attacking the "traditional structure". It strikes me as a case in which American sports have taken over something from baseball which probably makes sense there, since most of the action lies in the personnel department but is intrinsically dysfunctional.
Not sure why it would make more sense in baseball.
The idea is that one man cannot handle all of the responsibilities.
It makes sense to have the HC dealing with the players, schemes, assistant coaches, strategy, film, scouting of opponents, etc and someone else in charge of developing a draft board and film study of potential FAs along with 'running the football department'.



That's the problem. The GM judges if he did a good job with the resources given by whom? The GM!
And the GM is accountable to the owner. You are implying no 'manager' should have personell authority over direct reports. The owner assesses the GM and the GM assesses the coach. Certainly he is accountable to the owner for that assessment.
Take away the GM and you have Jerry Jones.


Absolutely. But why does it have to be a GM who is also a personnel guy? After all, since BB is both coach and GM, his boss is Mr Kraft.
BB is clearly the exception. As I said, you could have the GM report to the HC as really happens here, but I cannot think of another HC who could really handle that, and I don't believe BB could either unless it was a case of someone likeminded that he could trust to do their job while he is coaching the team.


I think that it makes a lot of sense for the owner to have a "football guy" to advise him, but see no reason why that should be a GM who is also responsible for personnel and hence has a clear conflict of responsibilities.
I don't see the big conflict. His job is the success of the organization. You seem to have a jumping off point that the GM works against the HC rather than with him.
You can't have everyone report to the owner, or again you are the Cowboys.
The HC is only one of many that report to the GM, who is essentially running the entire organization and delegating responsibliities to the HC and all other employees. I'm not sure who you want to be in charge. Someone has to be or you have chaos.
Try looking at it through the eyes of the owner of the Browns, Dolphins, Bills, Redskins etc. Would you really want to bring in the type of coach they are bringing in and give them total unbridled control?
Look at the Ravens, who are a clear example of the coach coaches and the GM runs the show.



[quite](By the way, British soccer has always been very different: everything flows through a manager who reports to a Board of Directors of the club. The Chairman of the Board may or may not be the largest shareholder. Recently, there have been attempts to introduce a "Director of Football" between the board and the manager, but the record hasn't been good -- it's only led to conflicts about who has authority over what, it seems.)[/QUOTE]
I know nothing about soccer but I would assume the duties of an NFL HC and GM are different and more extensive.
 
Philbin just announced that OC Mike Sherman has been fired.

The fact that Philbin is the one making the announcement makes me think his job may be safe, and probably the same goes for GM Jeff Ireland. I would think if they were gone then Ross would can Philbin and Ireland first, and the assistant coaches as an afterthought.


Philbin (safe according to source) fires Mike Sherman | Miami Dolphins In Depth

The Dolphins have announced offensive coordinator Mike Sherman has been fired. I am also reporting that coach Joe Philbin is "definitely safe," according to a club source and will return for his third season with the Dolphins.

“I would like to thank Mike for his contributions to the Miami Dolphins,” Philbin said in a statement released by the club. “Mike has been a mentor to me throughout my coaching career, dating back to 1979. He is a man of great integrity, dedicated to his family, his team, his players and his profession. On behalf of the entire Miami Dolphins organization I want to wish Mike and his family the very best in the future.”

Interestingly, Philbin did not wish to fire his "mentor." The coach had previously defended Sherman as an "excellent" football coach. But owner Stephen Ross wanted Sherman out after the Dolphins scored only one touchdown in the season's final two games when the playoffs were on the line.

Ross, however, could not actually fire Sherman as he had signed over hiring and firing power to Philbin in his contract. But obviously, rather than defy his boss, Philbin did as the owner wished.​
 
Baa, Baa
Sacrificial firing
 
Is Eric Mangini really a proper candidate to be a GM?

I would think that his reach would only include potential assistant coaching jobs at the moment, let alone a HC gig---and surely not a GM position! Just my opinion, and even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, but I wouldn't assume a good future if I made Eric freaking Mangini my future GM.
 
Per NFLN TV Ireland is offically out.
 


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