ManFredo and Pioli possible Dolphins GM candidates.

[Triumph]

ManFredo would accept, Pioli would decline IMO.

Report: Eric Mangini could possibly replace Dolphins GM Ireland

 

[Kontradiction]

At the very least, it would make things interesting between the two teams.

 

[Joker]

Manweenie versus the Blabba That Roars...make it so....

 

[Tunescribe]

What could possibly qualify Man-vagina to GM an NFL team? That is preposterous. I hope it happens.

Ross reportedly is considering Tannenbaum as well. Even that goofball would be a thousand times better than Eric the Rat.

 

[goheels22002]

Fredo possible Dolphins GM?

I'm not sure where this guy Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald is getting this, but Mangini as GM of the Dolphins or overseeing the GM and HC is a bizarre concept. If he was the top man, would Mangini have to stab himself in the back?

Names, people to keep in mind in coming days | Miami Dolphins In Depth

 

[everlong]

What could possibly qualify Man-vagina to GM an NFL team? That is preposterous. I hope it happens.

That was my instant reaction but remembering Patriot Reign, War Room and Cleveland 95 Mangini would have been schooled by BB in scouting and drafting and Bill would give them topics where they would have to write the equivalent of a doctoral thesis on a given topic to prove their worth on going to the next level. In some ways this is the perfect career move for Mangini. I think he had the knowledge to coach he just didn't have the personality. Being a GM he would be removed from that aspect but could still make sound football moves.

I'm not saying it will work out I'm just offering a counterpoint to the epic fail most are going to support. Mangini may be a scumbag but he does have a high football IQ.

 

[Rob0729]

Considering how Mangini gave up to the Jets the 5th pick in the 2009 draft for basically the 21st pick and a bag of footballs (ok, he got players, but a bag of footballs would have been more productive for the Browns than the players they got); why would anyone give Mangini a GM job?

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, Ireland hasn't even been fired yet and they are already talking about people already being the top candidates for the job.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That was my instant reaction but remembering Patriot Reign, War Room and Cleveland 95 Mangini would have been schooled by BB in scouting and drafting and Bill would give them topics where they would have to write the equivalent of a doctoral thesis on a given topic to prove their worth on going to the next level. In some ways this is the perfect career move for Mangini. I think he had the knowledge to coach he just didn't have the personality. Being a GM he would be removed from that aspect but could still make sound football moves.

I'm not saying it will work out I'm just offering a counterpoint to the epic fail most are going to support. Mangini may be a scumbag but he does have a high football IQ.

Decent points, everlong. I think there is more to being a GM than picking talent. A GM or team president represents the philosophical core and leader of a football organization. Based on their respective track records, you can certainly question Mangini or Pioli as qualified as a GM.

Mangini is a horses ***** but in NY but if you believe that he had the personnel authority over Tannenbaum then his drafts were pretty decent.
You can even make a case that his drafts (if he had personnel authority) while not spectacular weren't disasters.

Pioli....not sure what to make of his time in KC. His drafts were less than spectacular and his hiring of coaches was not great either.

 

[Ring 6]

Decent points, everlong. I think there is more to being a GM than picking talent. A GM or team president represents the philosophical core and leader of a football organization. Based on their respective track records, you can certainly question Mangini or Pioli as qualified as a GM.

Mangini is a horses ***** but in NY but if you believe that he had the personnel authority over Tannenbaum then his drafts were pretty decent.
You can even make a case that his drafts (if he had personnel authority) while not spectacular weren't disasters.

Pioli....not sure what to make of his time in KC. His drafts were less than spectacular and his hiring of coaches was not great either.

While people on this board see Mangini as the devil, he is actually a bright football guy, who is currently a consultant in SF, is much, much more respected throughout the league than people think, and is a pretty good talent evaluator and he spent many years learning at the foot of the master.

Pioli drafted extremely well, he just failed at hiring a HC and getting a QB.

 

[kennyb]

Weird how these rich guys would rather hire proven failures than someone new. Mangini and Pioli were both control freaks. Both had mini reigns of terror at their respective jobs.

 

[Mike the Brit]

The idea of a General Manager as someone with authority over both scouting, drafting and trading and the hiring and firing of the coach is ridiculous.

Perhaps it makes sense in baseball, in which success is 75% or more about personnel, but in football everything flows from the Head Coach. It may be that the coach shouldn't have full authority to make all of the recruitment decisions, but to give whoever has that personnel responsibility authority over the coach as well is bad management.

 

[Ring 6]

Weird how these rich guys would rather hire proven failures than someone new. Mangini and Pioli were both control freaks. Both had mini reigns of terror at their respective jobs.

Perhaps they became rich by recognizing that people who take control, responsibility and accountability are the most successful ones, and putting a nice guy that everyone likes because he does not demand more usually fails.

 

[Ring 6]

The idea of a General Manager as someone with authority over both scouting, drafting and trading and the hiring and firing of the coach is ridiculous.

Perhaps it makes sense in baseball, in which success is 75% or more about personnel, but in football everything flows from the Head Coach. It may be that the coach shouldn't have full authority to make all of the recruitment decisions, but to give whoever has that personnel responsibility authority over the coach as well is bad management.

Good point, and excellent topic.
The drawback of one HC/GM is the excessive workload.
The drawback of splitting the duties is consistency in philosophy.
I think the system that works best is a GM and HC with similar backgrounds, who work together, but divide the duties. I think the GM probably should have final say (depending on who the coach is of course) because he hires and fires the coach, and someone has to have the final word.
Interestingly BB may be the only coach who had final say over his "GM" as clearly BB had the power to fire Pioli rather than the other way around.

 

[everlong]

The drawback of splitting the duties is consistency in philosophy.

The best working relationships I've had are with people who have a strong work ethic, a strong sense of accountability, have a similar but not exact view on philosophy, a different background and have a completely different personality than I do. With this blend I find everybody is just trying to get the job done, nobody is saying that your responsibility, nobody is playing the blame game and everybody just wants to get the job done to the best of the team's ability. It's best to have a different background because it allows both parties to see things differently and makes the whole greater than the sum of it's part. I always imagined this is why Bill and Scott worked so well together and fit that dynamic.

 

[DocHoliday]

re: Andy: Well Pioli wasn't a GM here so of course

 

[kennyb]

Perhaps they became rich by recognizing that people who take control, responsibility and accountability are the most successful ones, and putting a nice guy that everyone likes because he does not demand more usually fails.

Nothing you said has anything to do with what I wrote. I said they shouldn't hire proven failures. That doesn't mean they should hire a "nice guy who doesn't demand more".

So I guess they should hire a "mean guy who demands more" who has failed repeatedly? Did Mangini "demand more" in NY and Cleveland? Is that why he was so successful?

Nice strawman argument.

And some of them became rich because they inherited it or got extremely lucky.

 

[Deus Irae]

Decent points, everlong. I think there is more to being a GM than picking talent. A GM or team president represents the philosophical core and leader of a football organization. Based on their respective track records, you can certainly question Mangini or Pioli as qualified as a GM.

Mangini is a horses ***** but in NY but if you believe that he had the personnel authority over Tannenbaum then his drafts were pretty decent.
You can even make a case that his drafts (if he had personnel authority) while not spectacular weren't disasters.

Pioli....not sure what to make of his time in KC. His drafts were less than spectacular and his hiring of coaches was not great either.

Pioli was stuck with the KC scouts for his first draft. It was already a weak draft, and Pioli suffered for the combination. The rest of his drafts produced

Berry
McCluster
Arenas
Asamoah
Moeaki
Lewis

Hudson
Houston
Bailey
Powe

Poe
Allen
Stephenson
Hemingway

All of the above are still in the NFL and haven't been bouncing around (unlike Wylie, who I left off the list). All the above, except Arenas, are still on the Chiefs. Most are starters, and those that aren't either split starts or were rotational players. Each of those three drafts produced at least one All-Pro or Pro Bowl type player.

I'm with you on the coaches, though. Bad choices there, and at O.C., killed his tenure.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Good point, and excellent topic.
The drawback of one HC/GM is the excessive workload.
The drawback of splitting the duties is consistency in philosophy.
I think the system that works best is a GM and HC with similar backgrounds, who work together, but divide the duties. I think the GM probably should have final say (depending on who the coach is of course) because he hires and fires the coach, and someone has to have the final word.
Interestingly BB may be the only coach who had final say over his "GM" as clearly BB had the power to fire Pioli rather than the other way around.

You see, that's where I disagree. Why should the the GM be the one to hire and fire the coach?

The coach's job depends on the success of the team and the success of the team depends on both coaching and personnel selection. Why should the person whose responsibility is the second also have responsibility for judging someone whose success depends on how well that judge has been doing their own job?

In the end, I think, it's the responsibility of the owner to hire and fire coaches. Since owners aren't skilled in the evaluation of coaches (no, not even Jerry Jones ) it's fair enough that they look to advisers. But, if the adviser is playing a role that is itself an important ingredient in the outcome, the process is obviously tainted, I'd say.

 

[Ring 6]

You see, that's where I disagree. Why should the the GM be the one to hire and fire the coach?

Who else would? The traditional structure is that the GM is the HCs boss.
If you want a different structure it really isn't a GM.

The coach's job depends on the success of the team and the success of the team depends on both coaching and personnel selection. Why should the person whose responsibility is the second also have responsibility for judging someone whose success depends on how well that judge has been doing their own job?

Again, traditionally, the HC reports to the GM. The GM judges if he did a good job with the resources he was given.
Everyone has to have a boss.

In the end, I think, it's the responsibility of the owner to hire and fire coaches. Since owners aren't skilled in the evaluation of coaches (no, not even Jerry Jones ) it's fair enough that they look to advisers. But, if the adviser is playing a role that is itself an important ingredient in the outcome, the process is obviously tainted, I'd say.

I don't understand. You say the owners are not knowledgable enough to make the decision but they should make it any way?
Traditionally, the owner hires his 'football guy' also known as the GM. HC reports to GM, GM reports to owner.
I'm not saying that hierarchy is the only way, but it is what has always been the norm. You seem to want to just eliminate the GM.