Man that cover 2 defense

[PatsWSB47]

Are you serious? On a football message board?

Head over to pettycelebrityobservations.com where your drivel will actually be appreciated.

Hey, lighten up and appreciate this. You're being too serious. She was on the "kick off show" as in "football", where "football" fans gathered to watch the celebration of the Colts winning the Superbowl before the season opening of the new "football" season. Sheesh!

 

[Oswlek]

Even if the weak NFC, I think we are going to see the one year wonder phenomena of the Saints. The media has fallen in love with them partly because of the great story due to Katrina, but they were a flawed team last year. Flawed teams that have a good season against a weak schedule often tank the next year, and thats what I see from NO.

That said, the Colts did look very good. I kept wondering what the game would have looked like if there was a football player in Jason Davids spot. I dont think Ive ever seen a single worse game by a corner. He wasnt' even close, and when you look at the TDs, I think those receviers could have run any route and he would have been 8 yards off of them. I have no clue what he was trying to do.

I've long disliked the Colts, primarily because their model, IMO, was preventing them from competing for Championships. Last year in the playoffs, and it continued into last night, they have decided that defense matters, and its not just about trying for one big play to stop a drive, and they seem more concerned with using the run to win football games than to let Manning accumulate stats no matter the situation.
Its a long season, and its still to be seen if that can continue (please spare me the Bob Sanders is the difference between a good D and a bad one all by himself, because that is stupid) but if the Colts can play good defense and understand that the role of the offense isnt to look pretty, but to win games, they will be a tough opponent. Keep in mind though, one game, especially the opener, rarely carries through an entire season. I think the best and most dominant the Patriots ever looked was the opener of the 2002 season when they pulverized and embarassed the Steelers (an elite team) but that was, aside from year 1, the worst year of the BB era.

This is going be a great AFC season. Right now Indy, us and the Chargers all look like SB Caliber teams, with Baltimore and perhaps Denver potentially near that level. This is beginning to look like the NFC used to in the 80s and 90s when the Gaints, Skins, 9ers, Bears, Cowboys all took turns slugging it out, with always at least a few teams that were good enough to be SB teams.

Of course, I like our chances.

I was going to make a big long post about how I thought that NO was going to be 8-8 at best this year. Now I'm kinda saddened that I didn't, although we all know the first game doesn't make the entire season.

My rationale for the Saints dropoff is largely tied to just how close they were to being an under .500 team last year. They actually remind me a lot of the 2003 Panthers. Consider their 2006 schedule:

They started out by barely beating a bad Cleveland team and then just sqeaking by a medicore (bad at that time) GB squad. After stomping on Atlanta to prove they might just be for real, they had two more sqeakers: barely beating TB who was terrible and absolutely lucking into a win over Philly when they were severely outplayed. Again, that team is very similar to the 2003 Cats, who squeaked by some poor opposition early and developed some confidence, then finally actually became a good team. Since they really didn't outplay any of those teams, they very easily could have been 2-4 and done instead of 5-1.

WIth regard to Indy, they looked very impressive yesterday. The defense was flying around and even made some really nice hits. The offense looked like it could do whatever it wanted in the 2nd half.

I would have just a few reasons to have caution:

1) Indy dominated the LOS, but that NO OL was terible. They couldn't run or pass block and every time NO needed to make a key play they would false start.

2) NO's defense wasn't very good. Nobody questions Indy offensive capabilities, but some teams will at least stop something.

3) Quick, smaller teams can slow down over the course of the season. If Indy has some depth behind their starters - we don't know whether they do because it is largely unproven at this point - it won't be that big of an issue. But if the starters need to play almost every down, I would have concerns over whether they will still look that overwhelming come December and January.

 

[Caspir]

Who exactly is going to cover Wes Welker in this Cover 2 scheme?

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Just a point of emphasis.

My original thread wasn't so much intended to boast of the Indy defense (though I should have expected such with the Colts trolls in here) but rather, to highlight the fundamental qualities that the cover 2 defense bring to the game if football.

Whether or not Brees stunk last night or the OC pulled a NEM induced Weis funk, or no matter if Bush is truly a bush league player, seeing that cover 2 defense operate as it did last night, with speedy defenders flying all over the place, swarming, suffocating and tackling anything it could get its hands on, was an impressive thing to watch.

 

[everlong]

Not to take anything away from Indy since they looked awesome last night but I think you'll see the Chargers put a similar type beating on the Bears Sunday.

If they seeded the playoff matchups as:

NFC 1 VS AFC 6
NFC 2 VS AFC 5

ETC

I wouldn't be shocked to see all 6 AFC teams win.

Put the Bears as NFC 1 vs an AFC 6 of Cincy, Jacksonville, Denver, NYJ...

Are any of these teams really a dog vs the Bears?

On other side NE, Indy, SD as a 1 seed would be a double digit favorite vs any NFC 6 seed.

The NFL should consider doing away with the conferences and just seeding as the top 12 teams.

 

[Oswlek]

Not to take anything away from Indy since they looked awesome last night but I think you'll see the Chargers put a similar type beating on the Bears Sunday.

If they seeded the playoff matchups as:

NFC 1 VS AFC 6
NFC 2 VS AFC 5

ETC

I wouldn't be shocked to see all 6 AFC teams win.

Put the Bears as NFC 1 vs an AFC 6 of Cincy, Jacksonville, Denver, NYJ...

Are any of these teams really a dog vs the Bears?

On other side NE, Indy, SD as a 1 seed would be a double digit favorite vs any NFC 6 seed.

The NFL should consider doing away with the conferences and just seeding as the top 12 teams.

This may be true, but Indy made NO look like the 2004 49ers. Only time will tell if that win was really all the impressive, but it certainly looks so at the moment.

 

[fair catch fryar]

is a thing of beauty to watch when its hitting on all cylinders like it is for the Colts tonight.

Tons of speed and pressure with defenders flying to the ball and tackling like crazy.

No doubt, the Colts defense looked good last night, but it all rests on one simple variable that propelled them to the SB last year.....the return of Bob Sanders. This guy is that f&^k'n good! He has a hard time making it through a season healthy, if this guy does go down then a lot of areas in their Cover 2 will systematically break down because without him they are extremely vulnerable to a decent running game.

 

[Ring 6]

Just a point of emphasis.

My original thread wasn't so much intended to boast of the Indy defense (though I should have expected such with the Colts trolls in here) but rather, to highlight the fundamental qualities that the cover 2 defense bring to the game if football.

Whether or not Brees stunk last night or the OC pulled a NEM induced Weis funk, or no matter if Bush is truly a bush league player, seeing that cover 2 defense operate as it did last night, with speedy defenders flying all over the place, swarming, suffocating and tackling anything it could get its hands on, was an impressive thing to watch.

Any defense looks like that if you dont block it. Cover2 has its flaws as well.
The biggest thing that Ive seen in the Colt D in the playoffs and last night is an unbelievable inabilty to stop penetration in the run game. A good offensive line tears apart that philosophy couple with drastically undersized DL.
The way the Colts have stopped the run to the level they have over their last 4 games is that very often they have penetration almost to the spot of the handoff. The RB has to adjust to escape the penetration, and then the play goes away from what is usually a huge hole. RB hesitates, goes away from play design, speedy small players catch him.
To me its a simple concept, and I think a zone blocking scheme is the perfect attach. But if your OL are focussed on not getting run past rather than blowing the guy back 20 yards, there is a ton of running room.
when you run on the cover 2 the pass opens up nicely.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Any defense looks like that if you dont block it. Cover2 has its flaws as well.
The biggest thing that Ive seen in the Colt D in the playoffs and last night is an unbelievable inabilty to stop penetration in the run game. A good offensive line tears apart that philosophy couple with drastically undersized DL.
The way the Colts have stopped the run to the level they have over their last 4 games is that very often they have penetration almost to the spot of the handoff. The RB has to adjust to escape the penetration, and then the play goes away from what is usually a huge hole. RB hesitates, goes away from play design, speedy small players catch him.
To me its a simple concept, and I think a zone blocking scheme is the perfect attach. But if your OL are focussed on not getting run past rather than blowing the guy back 20 yards, there is a ton of running room.
when you run on the cover 2 the pass opens up nicely.

Sure any system has faults and I know that the cover 2 is susceptible to being run upon due to a lack of size of its players but, when it is working, as it was for the Colts last night, it is a crippling defense to have to contend against not to mention a thing of beauty to watch.

It's hard to imagine that the Saints offense last night ranked 1st in the league last year in both passing and total yards per game.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

On a side note. How many cover 2 teams are there in the NFL?

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Any defense looks like that if you dont block it. Cover2 has its flaws as well.
The biggest thing that Ive seen in the Colt D in the playoffs and last night is an unbelievable inabilty to stop penetration in the run game. A good offensive line tears apart that philosophy couple with drastically undersized DL.
The way the Colts have stopped the run to the level they have over their last 4 games is that very often they have penetration almost to the spot of the handoff. The RB has to adjust to escape the penetration, and then the play goes away from what is usually a huge hole. RB hesitates, goes away from play design, speedy small players catch him.
To me its a simple concept, and I think a zone blocking scheme is the perfect attach. But if your OL are focussed on not getting run past rather than blowing the guy back 20 yards, there is a ton of running room.
when you run on the cover 2 the pass opens up nicely.

That was a good analysis, Andy. I'm with you all the way on that one!

 

[lapatsfan]

Yeah, we'll see how good it is when Brady, Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Watson and Maroney are on the field.

 

[everlong]

Even if the weak NFC, I think we are going to see the one year wonder phenomena of the Saints. The media has fallen in love with them partly because of the great story due to Katrina, but they were a flawed team last year. Flawed teams that have a good season against a weak schedule often tank the next year, and thats what I see from NO.

I could not understand all the SB love the national media was throwing to the Saints and I agree they are going to take a step back.

Something else to remember about NO, 2006 AFC games

at Cleveland W 19-14
Baltimore L 22-35
at Pittsburgh L 31-38
Cincinnati L 16-31

This should be no surprise when you can barely take care of Cleveland and a depleted Pitt team beats you and Baltimore and Cincy spank you in your place.

 

[Metaphors]

Seems like the Colts defense gets over-simplied both to the positive (playoffs and last night) and the negative (2006 regular season). I've seen quite a few of their games and their defense doesn't look the same week-to-week or even drive-to-drive. I obviously haven't broken down tape on their games so I could be drunk on this, but it seems to me like their successes/failures are more due to weekly gameplans (and execution/adjustments) than personnel.

I don't think you can just pick one attack (power run) and say it will be successful. Ask the Ravens and Chiefs in the playoffs last year. It honestly looked like the Colts had 11 guys in the box for those games. The Jags womped the Colts by finding the seams in their defense (which are not always between the tackles). The Texans won by combining a hyper-accurate short outside passing game with quick hitting runs.

About the only conclusion I can seem to draw is that you have to force the Colts D to defend all areas of the field on all downs. If you run up the middle on 1st and 2nd down (when they stack the box) and pass down the middle on 3rd down (when they drop their linebackers and safeties), I wouldn't expect you to have much success.

I can't recall many plays by the Saints that went outside, besides their reverses. Everything was between the hash marks which allows their fast LBers and safeties to play fast (north-south) and not have to make decisions on moving laterally. Would be interested to hear if Ryan has a similar take on the Colts D.

BTW, this isn't a knock on the Colts D since every defense has weaknesses that can be exploited. It is more a criticism of their opponents who have not brought anything close to an effective offensive gameplan to the table.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Seems like the Colts defense gets over-simplied both to the positive (playoffs and last night) and the negative (2006 regular season). I've seen quite a few of their games and their defense doesn't look the same week-to-week or even drive-to-drive. I obviously haven't broken down tape on their games so I could be drunk on this, but it seems to me like their successes/failures are more due to weekly gameplans (and execution/adjustments) than personnel.

I don't think you can just pick one attack (power run) and say it will be successful. Ask the Ravens and Chiefs in the playoffs last year. It honestly looked like the Colts had 11 guys in the box for those games. The Jags womped the Colts by finding the seams in their defense (which are not always between the tackles). The Texans won by combining a hyper-accurate short outside passing game with quick hitting runs.

About the only conclusion I can seem to draw is that you have to force the Colts D to defend all areas of the field on all downs. If you run up the middle on 1st and 2nd down (when they stack the box) and pass down the middle on 3rd down (when they drop their linebackers and safeties), I wouldn't expect you to have much success.

I can't recall many plays by the Saints that went outside, besides their reverses. Everything was between the hash marks which allows their fast LBers and safeties to play fast (north-south) and not have to make decisions on moving laterally. Would be interested to hear if Ryan has a similar take on the Colts D.

BTW, this isn't a knock on the Colts D since every defense has weaknesses that can be exploited. It is more a criticism of their opponents who have not brought anything close to an effective offensive gameplan to the table.

So true, so true....