"Making the Leap": Jamie Collins

[james87654]

Et Tu James, Et Tu?

sorry, i would have given you credit but i honestly didnt read the whole thread

 

[The Scrizz]

Et Tu James, Et Tu?

At least he didn't accuse CJ of having fat.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

sorry, i would have given you credit but i honestly didnt read the whole thread

You mistake my post; I was poking fun at the dear departed gym rat who lamented Jones' supposed fat out of muscle shape physique. I was pretending you were channeling him.

 

[james87654]

You mistake my post; I was poking fun at the dear departed gym rat who lamented Jones' supposed fat out of muscle shape physique. I was pretending you were channeling him.

ok....gotcha......i have to be careful or you occasionally go over my head

 

[patfanken]

As one of the first first fans to jump on the Collins , its gratifying to see the clips provided in this article.lAmong the subtle thinsgs that show up on the tape was his ability to turn his hips and head when covering the TE deep. We've seen CB's who couln't manage that kind of flexibility and ball skills

2 plays stand out as great examples of Collins' freakish athletic talent. The Sack of Luck and the spin move on the sweep. I will be surprised if we don't see those kinds of plays out of Collins a lot more often this season. His potential impact will be hard to miss if only because no one will have the luxury of knowing where he might align or what he might be doing.

I don't think there is any doubt that Jamie Collins is going to be "making the leap" this season. The ONLY question will be if that "leap" vaults him to the category of being a productive starter, or all the way to an all pro type disruptive play maker.

 

[PatFanCraig]

As good as Collins is in coverage,we may need him more rushing the passer. Unless Easley,Buchanan or zach moore step up and make an impact we need his explosiveness blitzing. In coverage he neutralizes a pass catcher, if he explodes into the backfield he neutralizes all pass catchers simultaneously. Its very important another passruCollinseps up so Collins can be mixed into blitzing/coverage assignments. Otherwise we need him blitzing more often. Improved secondary this season would allow him to rush the qb. I think Logan Ryan will also steep up big. He has good size and ball skills but his burst and makeup speed are very underrated. He far exceeds his 40 time much like Sherman and Haden. He really flashes on the scene to make a play. Some say he lacks speed but you don't get your hands on that many passes without great burst. The QBs sure aren't throwing it to him, he is getting there with awareness,burst and athleticism which a db must possess for top ball skills. Watch his highlights, he has burst and an extra gear. I bring this up because if he emerges as a #1 caliber CB, the secondary will exceed expectations which means Collins can blitz more and end up a double digit sack producer

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

So excited to see.him play. Reading this makes me miss football so badly. Almost time

 

[ripatsfan91]

In this year's list of College Football/NFL prospect Athletic Freaks, Bruce Feldman called Jamie Collins not only the freakiest prospect of last years draft, but of the past decade.

Freaks Week: Ranking college football's Top 20 'Freaks' for 2014 | FOX Sports on MSN

 

[mayoclinic]

In this year's list of College Football/NFL prospect Athletic Freaks, Bruce Feldman called Jamie Collins not only the freakiest prospect of last years draft, but of the past decade.

Freaks Week: Ranking college football's Top 20 'Freaks' for 2014 | FOX Sports on MSN

Thanks for posting this - I've been looking for Feldman's list, which usually comes out earlier. IIRC, Jamie Collins only made it as an "honorable mention" on Feldman's 2012 list:

The Freak List: The 10 craziest athletes in college football - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com

It sounds like Feldman may be doing a little historical revision - wink, wink.

Manxman2601 (who has a brilliant eye for talent) has been touting Alvin "Bud" Dupree, who comes in at #5 on Feldman's current list. Iowa OL Brandon Scherff, who comes in at #2, is almost a "perfect Patriot", and would make a great successor to Logan Mankins at LG. Guys to keep an eye on for next spring.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Thanks for posting this - I've been looking for Feldman's list, which usually comes out earlier. IIRC, Jamie Collins only made it as an "honorable mention" on Feldman's 2012 list:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/18992316/the-freak-list-the-10-craziest-athletes-in-college-football

It sounds like Feldman may be doing a little historical revision - wink, wink.

Manxman2601 (who has a brilliant eye for talent) has been touting Alvin "Bud" Dupree, who comes in at #5 on Feldman's current list. Iowa OL Brandon Scherff, who comes in at #2, is almost a "perfect Patriot", and would make a great successor to Logan Mankins at LG. Guys to keep an eye on for next spring.

Yeah revisionist history was my first thought as well, but keep in mind he made this list before the season, before the combine/pro days. Did anyone think Collins had a shot to break a combine record, has a 42 inch VJ, and be off the charts in terms of agility?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I know it's pre pre-season where hope runs amok unbounded and I'm certainly old enough where I should know better, but despite recent history and cold reason I can't stop my giddy anticipation for what looks like a return to the years when opposing teams actually feared facing a Patriots defense as opposed to rubbing their hands together in glee at the myriad prospects of exploitation. I get my blood up far more watching a soul crushing, game clinching, man handling defensive stand by the Pats than by some spectacular offensive TD with 2+ minutes left on the clock.

I dunno about you, but I'd prefer to see soul-crushing à la q4 of the Ratbirds game.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Can't wait to see him play more this year there's no doubting his athletic ability.

 

[PatFanCraig]

I would like to see Moore or Buchanan step up to double digit sacks Both top flight skills. Buchanan often actually looked more fearsome than first round teammate Whitney Mercilus. Zach Moore had a sub 1.6 10 yard split with a near 36" vertical and broad jump over 10'. That's quite impressive for a 275lb dude that raw. Then there is Easley whom were not sure will be fully recovered from acl surgery but if he is should put heat on the QB. If somebody doesn't step up as a passrusher it falls on Collins to blitz often and rush the qb when were in the 3-4 defense out of necessity. Or else that same ineffective pass rush from the afccg returns and nobody wants that. I hope Jones can make the leap to elite feared edge rusher but the jury is out on that as he struggled badly at times especially against bigger tackles. In the event Jones doesn't make the leap I'm hoping another passrusher steps up to compliment Jones. That would allow Collins to move around and mix it up between coverage and blitz. If another passrusher emerges or Jones catapults to elite which is a big if, then the pass rush is downright a tornado aimed at qbs.

 

[supafly]

I would like to see Moore or Buchanan step up to double digit sacks Both top flight skills. Buchanan often actually looked more fearsome than first round teammate Whitney Mercilus. Zach Moore had a sub 1.6 10 yard split with a near 36" vertical and broad jump over 10'. That's quite impressive for a 275lb dude that raw. Then there is Easley whom were not sure will be fully recovered from acl surgery but if he is should put heat on the QB. If somebody doesn't step up as a passrusher it falls on Collins to blitz often and rush the qb when were in the 3-4 defense out of necessity. Or else that same ineffective pass rush from the afccg returns and nobody wants that. I hope Jones can make the leap to elite feared edge rusher but the jury is out on that as he struggled badly at times especially against bigger tackles. In the event Jones doesn't make the leap I'm hoping another passrusher steps up to compliment Jones. That would allow Collins to move around and mix it up between coverage and blitz. If another passrusher emerges or Jones catapults to elite which is a big if, then the pass rush is downright a tornado aimed at qbs.

I agree that this defense has the obvious potential to be much tougher, barring serious injury of course.

Buchanon's main knock was that he absolutely sucked at setting the edge in run support, which is why he was benched early on in the season to begin with. The fact that we had to go out and bring back Andre Carter, who looked like a former shell of himself, is telling enough in regards to Buchanon's struggles. Hopefully, that can be improved upon--as well as partially masked by better play from other guys.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Buchanan should grow into his frame. We could also play more 3-4 this year. Perhaps Jones can fill out to that 275-280lbs like mayock envisioned(which would also help him not get bullied by Bryant McKinney's). A formation with wilfork at nose and Jones and Easley as ends with Collins/Buchanan playing rush olb. I'm never for Bellichick bringing in these hasbeens from retirement. If he needs a passrusher then do it right with a Bennett or Melton signing. Or since our young passrushers are the best and most explosive crop of young talent we ever had, PLAY AND DEVELOP them! Challenge Buchanan to get stronger and better at setting the edge rather than benching a guy that just beat a double team including D'Brichashaw Ferguson for a sack,in favor of a retired has been. A rookie beat a respected LT for a sack while he also had help. They needed to coach him up from that encouraging production of 2 sacks in 3 games.

 

[Joker]

Buchanan should grow into his frame. We could also play more 3-4 this year. Perhaps Jones can fill out to that 275-280lbs like mayock envisioned(which would also help him not get bullied by Bryant McKinney's). A formation with wilfork at nose and Jones and Easley as ends with Collins/Buchanan playing rush olb..

The Patriots haven't played any 3/4 in years. Here is the easiest link to understanding our current defensive formations...

The Essential Faces of the New England Patriots Defensive Front | NEPatriotsDraft.com

 

[supafly]

Buchanan should grow into his frame. We could also play more 3-4 this year. Perhaps Jones can fill out to that 275-280lbs like mayock envisioned(which would also help him not get bullied by Bryant McKinney's). A formation with wilfork at nose and Jones and Easley as ends with Collins/Buchanan playing rush olb. I'm never for Bellichick bringing in these hasbeens from retirement. If he needs a passrusher then do it right with a Bennett or Melton signing. Or since our young passrushers are the best and most explosive crop of young talent we ever had, PLAY AND DEVELOP them! Challenge Buchanan to get stronger and better at setting the edge rather than benching a guy that just beat a double team including D'Brichashaw Ferguson for a sack,in favor of a retired has been. A rookie beat a respected LT for a sack while he also had help. They needed to coach him up from that encouraging production of 2 sacks in 3 games.

While I agree with you that more reps lead to better development, his inability to set the edge really set us back against the run. He'll have to show Belichick that he's improved in that area in order to earn playing time, much like the RBs who can run need to prove themselves in pass protection before even seeing the field.

BB believes in putting the best overall product on the field, and while there's no doubt that Andre Carter sucked at certain things, his experience and ability to stop the run well enough is what allowed him to see the field over Buchanan. As you said--we're all hopeful that Buchanan can see more reps this year, and hope that there's no reason to need "has-beens" anymore (to an extent, of course).

As far as seeing more 3-4 looks, I think anything is possible with more versatility and health, but I don't think there's much doubt that we'll remain a 4-3 defense on the high majority of snaps.

 

[mayoclinic]

I was thinking more about some of Rosenthal's statements. These in particular came to mind:

Bill Belichick has found a new sort of prototype. Nearly 30 years removed from establishing what NFL teams look for in a 3-4 linebacker, Collins is the right player for this era.

Collins' ceiling would be to emerge as the AFC's answer to Lavonte David and Thomas Davis. In an era of multiple defenses and pass-catching tight ends, every team is looking for hybrids at linebacker.

I think that BB's thinking about what kind of defensive players best fit "this era" of pass-first offenses and offense-friendly rules has been evolving. Collins in 2013 and Dominique Easley this year are both guys whose skill sets are ideally suited to a multi-front hybrid defense to combat the modern passing game, and both are guys who BB probably would have passed up in the past; their selections signify that BB has moved away from his old prototype.

The model of the kind of defensive player BB is looking for is changing - both Collins and Easley are "a new sort of prototype", as was Chandler Jones in 2012 - the "right players for this era" - and their selection in consecutive years is significant.

In 2009 BB was still rooted in a traditional 2-gapping 3-4 defense. In 2010 he took guys like Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes who fit that model, passing up some talented 4-3 DEs like Carlos Dunlap and Greg Hardy and some faster, more mobile LBs like Sean Lee, Daryl Washington and Navorro Bowman. In 2012 the Pats took a 4-3 DE in Jones and also looked hard at smaller and faster LBs like Lavonte Davis and Bobby Wagner, but BB still ended up taking a bigger LB in Dont'a Hightower.

I think the Collins and Easley picks signify that BB has really moved away from the old model towards more mobile and versatile defenders. I'm guessing that Ryan Shazier would have gotten serious consideration if he had slipped to the end of the 1st round. I'm also guessing that we'll see BB look at more and more guys who don't fit into the old mold.

 

[Marqui]

I was thinking more about some of Rosenthal's statements. These in particular came to mind:



I think that BB's thinking about what kind of defensive players best fit "this era" of pass-first offenses and offense-friendly rules has been evolving. Collins in 2013 and Dominique Easley this year are both guys whose skill sets are ideally suited to a multi-front hybrid defense to combat the modern passing game, and both are guys who BB probably would have passed up in the past; their selections signify that BB has moved away from his old prototype. The model of the kind of defensive player BB is looking for is changing - both Collins and Easley are "a new sort of prototype", as was Chandler Jones in 2012 - the "right players for this era" - and their selection in consecutive years is significant. In 2009 BB was still rooted in a traditional 2-gapping 3-4 defense. In 2010 he took guys like Jermaine Cunningham and Brandon Spikes who fit that model, passing up some talented 4-3 DEs like Carlos Dunlap and Greg Hardy and some faster, more mobile LBs like Sean Lee, Daryl Washington and Navorro Bowman. In 2012 the Pats took a 4-3 DE in Jones and also looked hard at smaller and faster LBs like Lavonte Davis and Bobby Wagner, but BB still ended up taking a bigger LB in Dont'a Hightower. I think the Collins and Easley picks signify that BB has really moved away from the old model towards more mobile and versatile defenders. I'm guessing that Ryan Shazier would have gotten serious consideration if he had slipped to the end of the 1st round. I'm also guessing that we'll see BB look at more and more guys who don't fit into the old mold.

I wonder what their explanation is for wanting Hightower to be at 270 lbs for the last 2 years though. IMO Hightower is actually pretty athletic, even laterally, for someone so big. If they're finally changing to the "new sort of prototype", why still have a 270 lb guy rolling around back there?

I'd like to see how Hightower looks at 255 - 260 lbs.

 

[mayoclinic]

I wonder what their explanation is for wanting Hightower to be at 270 lbs for the last 2 years though. IMO Hightower is actually pretty athletic, even laterally, for someone so big. If they're finally changing to the "new sort of prototype", why still have a 270 lb guy rolling around back there?

I'd like to see how Hightower looks at 255 - 260 lbs.

I've never fully understood the Hightower pick. On the one hand, I can understand his leadership and versatility appealing to BB. OTOH, he really fits best in a 3-4 scheme, and I'm just not sure that he is mobile enough to excel in a "modern era" multi-front hybrid defense. He has good straight line speed but terrible lateral movement and agility. I'm still not sure at all that he fits as a LB - certainly not at 270#. I'd like to see him either slim down, or move up on the DL more. I think that BB still had one foot in the old prototype when he drafted Hightower. Regardless, that's one pick that I personally wish we had back.