Making the case for Osi Umenyiora

[Deus Irae]

You're selecting one group of favorites based on the betting odds. They could poll insiders, fans, writers, players and collectively gather their favorites and you might see an entirely different "favorite" emerge. I think this team has a lot of questions still, I understand all teams do and nobody has the perfect storm of players that cant be beaten but I am still weary of relying on a lot of guys who did it for one season, AND having Tom Brady have an out of the world MVP season again to get them to the playoffs. I'm even more weary of a team with a lot of guys who have very little if any playoff success taking them through the AFC

2007 SB participant
2008 Brady lost for season
2009 Welker lost for the playoffs, Brady still recovering from Knee surgery, lousy defense
2010 Brady tosses stupid pass, Crumpler drops easy TD

There's only one season there with a real issue there, and I don't think Brady will be stupid enough to toss another screen pass pick this year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

2007 SB participant
2008 Brady lost for season
2009 Welker lost for the playoffs, Brady still recovering from Knee surgery, lousy defense
2010 Brady tosses stupid pass, Crumpler drops easy TD

There's only one season there with a real issue there, and I don't think Brady will be stupid enough to toss another screen pass pick this year.

I don't think he will either but should he, Giselle might dump him for The Sanchise and football as we know it would be over for me.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

The Patriots went 14-2 last year, and have added (Not so) Fat Albert and Chad Johnson. You think they're not the favorites in the AFC?

On paper of course, but in reality we still at the moment have an o line that will give up its usual 5+ sacks in the playoffs, and a defense that will still struggle to stop a mediocre QB in the playoffs.

Blowing 14-2 and 16-0 to hard working tough talking WC teams kind of opens you up to the possibility of it happening again. I think in the offseason it should be about how we lost to an overrated Jets team not going 14-2 before that.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I don't think he will either but should he, Giselle might dump him for The Sanchise and football as we know it would be over for me.

She's wayyyyy to old for his liking sir!

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

2007 SB participant
2008 Brady lost for season
2009 Welker lost for the playoffs, Brady still recovering from Knee surgery, lousy defense
2010 Brady tosses stupid pass, Crumpler drops easy TD

There's only one season there with a real issue there, and I don't think Brady will be stupid enough to toss another screen pass pick this year.

Look, I'm not saying they can't produce in the playoffs, just that they haven't. Also for the 14-2 last season again it looked like a lot of things came together that would have to again, it's entirely possible but not something you can really count on as an absolute. Brady could be the MVP again, Gronk could improve, BJGE and Woodhead could continue to produce a better than average and well balanced run attack, McCourty could improve or remain the same, but those are all COULDS. It's a lot easier to rely on someone when theres a long track record, theres quite a few guys on this team who just don't have those track records. If the Patriots were to get Osi they'll have a guy with that track record and in a position the Patriots sorely need. He'd be an unquestionable upgrade and I'd feel comfortable saying the Pats have almost all their bases covered going into the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

On paper of course, but in reality we still at the moment have an o line that will give up its usual 5+ sacks in the playoffs, and a defense that will still struggle to stop a mediocre QB in the playoffs.

Blowing 14-2 and 16-0 to hard working tough talking WC teams kind of opens you up to the possibility of it happening again. I think in the offseason it should be about how we lost to an overrated Jets team not going 14-2 before that.

The Giants were a team with a tremendous defensive line playing against a Patriots team with injured tight ends, an injured QB and a RG that went down with injury early in the game.

The Jets were 11-5 last season. They had the 4th best record in the conference, and the split with the Patriots during the season. The Patriots lost, not because of the sacks allowed, but because Brady threw a boneheaded pick, Crumpler dropped an easy TD, the defense did a crappy job and the Jets were able to put the clamps on the outside receivers. Well, Brady's pick was a mental mistake by a man who hadn't made many all year long, Crumpler won't likely be the target next time, and the defense is getting players back and adjustments made

You don't get crowned champ for winning the regular season. Even favorites have to win games, which is why Peyton, Mighty Peyton, only has one ring. Nonetheless when free agency, trades and training camp all shake out, the Patriots will likely be the AFC favorites once again.

 

[Deus Irae]

Look, I'm not saying they can't produce in the playoffs, just that they haven't. Also for the 14-2 last season again it looked like a lot of things came together that would have to again, it's entirely possible but not something you can really count on as an absolute. Brady could be the MVP again, Gronk could improve, BJGE and Woodhead could continue to produce a better than average and well balanced run attack, McCourty could improve or remain the same, but those are all COULDS. It's a lot easier to rely on someone when theres a long track record, theres quite a few guys on this team who just don't have those track records. If the Patriots were to get Osi they'll have a guy with that track record and in a position the Patriots sorely need. He'd be an unquestionable upgrade and I'd feel comfortable saying the Pats have almost all their bases covered going into the season.

Everything is COULD until it's done, and the track record argument is meaningless to your post, which was

This would be outstanding and make the Pats IMO the favorites in the AFC, adding to the pass rush that was so anemic last year leading the Pats to being a garbage 3rd down D. I can't spell his name, but I'd be happy to have him aboard

Well, let me clarify that. While it may matter to YOUR opinion, it's not the key for everyone else. The Patriots are already favorites.

 

[D-Money]

I hope the pats are working those phones and trying to lower the giants demands.I dont wanna see him on the ravens or any other afc team.I still would give them the pats first rounder but not BB.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I hope the pats are working those phones and trying to lower the giants demands.I dont wanna see him on the ravens or any other afc team.I still would give them the pats first rounder but not BB.

A 2 this year and possibly another pick later would be a fair asking price. A one is absolutely absurd.

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

Everything is COULD until it's done, and the track record argument is meaningless to your post, which was



Well, let me clarify that. While it may matter to YOUR opinion, it's not the key for everyone else. The Patriots are already favorites.

I didn't really feel the need to clarify to the point of an elamentary level but I suppose it would have helped you relax a bit if instead of favorites I included "overwhelming" favorites, "consensus favorites" "favorites from pros, moneymakers, fans and media alike" whatever makes it easier to swallow for you. Osi has a track record, and a great skillset that nobody else on the roster possess. As for a playoff track record the team I saw in the playoffs didn't seem ready for primetime playing against a team that talked a good game and then backed it up on the field. If that game didn't concern you then I appriciate your ability to overlook a 14-2 team all of a sudden turning mediocre and putting the blame on one simple error on a screen play. I saw a defense put on bobby socks and plaid skirts and let a garbage QB have relay races with Jericho Cotchery. I saw an inconsistant offense that could move the ball on occasion and other times look like the 91 Pats playing against the steel curtain defense. The Jets had absolutely no problem playing their type of game against the Patriots, something happened between the smackdown they laid on the Jets severak weeks prior and that playoff game. It was either a team ill-equiped to play in the post season or a coach who got simply out gameplanned and out prepared by a coaching divisional rival... both are scary to think of and I don't know whats been done to make us think that just won't happen again.

 

[PushnPencils]

So....specifically regarding Osi.

His 10 forced fumble last year they just mentioned on EEI was impressive.

We do have Oakland's 2nd round pick next year. I think that'd be reasonable compensation.

 

[Deus Irae]

As for a playoff track record the team I saw in the playoffs didn't seem ready for primetime playing against a team that talked a good game and then backed it up on the field. If that game didn't concern you then I appriciate your ability to overlook a 14-2 team all of a sudden turning mediocre and putting the blame on one simple error on a screen play. I saw a defense put on bobby socks and plaid skirts and let a garbage QB have relay races with Jericho Cotchery. I saw an inconsistant offense that could move the ball on occasion and other times look like the 91 Pats playing against the steel curtain defense. The Jets had absolutely no problem playing their type of game against the Patriots, something happened between the smackdown they laid on the Jets severak weeks prior and that playoff game. It was either a team ill-equiped to play in the post season or a coach who got simply out gameplanned and out prepared by a coaching divisional rival... both are scary to think of and I don't know whats been done to make us think that just won't happen again.

You seem to have seen a 1-15 team.

I saw a team that could have been comfortably in the lead but for veterans making mistakes. I saw a team that had been going through the regular season with a wideout corps that had a major problem, and got exposed in the postseason. I saw a team that had a defense clearly missing starters who'd been out all year, and clearly showing the downside of inexperience.

Of those 3, 2 have been dealt with as of this moment and, although the defense still needs to make a move on the outside, I still see a team that's pretty clearly the conference favorite.

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

You seem to have seen a 1-15 team.

I saw a team that could have been comfortably in the lead but for veterans making mistakes. I saw a team that had been going through the regular season with a wideout corps that had a major problem, and got exposed in the postseason. I saw a team that had a defense clearly missing starters who'd been out all year, and clearly showing the downside of inexperience.

Of those 3, 2 have been dealt with as of this moment and, although the defense still needs to make a move on the outside, I still see a team that's pretty clearly the conference favorite.

I saw an entire team outplayed and outcoached, a team that WAS comfortably in the lead and dominated the same team a few weeks prior that puked on their shoes during the playoffs. They were outcoached, that hasn't changed. They were outhustled, not sure that changed. The team going into the season looks improved, still going to have trouble getting to the QB unless Haynesworth decides he wants to play. Several posts ago, it was just a poorly executed screen pass. We can make excuses all day but they were outplayed and outcoached by a team they had no problems handling a few weeks before. A mediocre QB and a middle of the road running game looked damn good and were at least the Pats high powered offenses equals.

 

[D-Money]

Haynesworth will play.I am sure he will move the pocket.The guy's a beast when he is in shape and playing 100 percent.I just want them to add another pass rusher.Cant have too many pass rushers.

 

[Deus Irae]

I saw an entire team outplayed and outcoached, a team that WAS comfortably in the lead and dominated the same team a few weeks prior that puked on their shoes during the playoffs. They were outcoached, that hasn't changed. They were outhustled, not sure that changed. The team going into the season looks improved, still going to have trouble getting to the QB unless Haynesworth decides he wants to play. Several posts ago, it was just a poorly executed screen pass. We can make excuses all day but they were outplayed and outcoached by a team they had no problems handling a few weeks before. A mediocre QB and a middle of the road running game looked damn good and were at least the Pats high powered offenses equals.

Nobody's making excuses. It was a poorly executed screen pass and a dropped TD pass that changed everything. It was pretty easy to see that. I'm finding your analysis shoddy and incomplete, not to mention to be without import with regards to which team will be the AFC favorite this year.

There's a difference.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Nobody's making excuses. It was a poorly executed screen pass and a dropped TD pass that changed everything. It was pretty easy to see that. I'm finding your analysis shoddy and incomplete, not to mention to be without import with regards to which team will be the AFC favorite this year.

There's a difference.

And either a muffed call or a badly executed fake punt. :bricks:

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

Nobody's making excuses. It was a poorly executed screen pass and a dropped TD pass that changed everything. It was pretty easy to see that. I'm finding your analysis shoddy and incomplete, not to mention to be without import with regards to which team will be the AFC favorite this year.

There's a difference.

It's interesting you find my analysis shoddy when you haven't been able to defend even one of your points when confronted by mine. I still stand by everything I've said, I haven't waivered in my convictions here, YOU started by stating that it was a poorly executed screen pass, then it was 2 or 3 things that according to you (without showing your work) are all better now, and NOW it's a screen pass and a dropped TD pass. I'm guessing if we keep this up long enough you'll have a massive laundry list of failures that amounted to the Patriots losing that playoff game that even outnumbers the flaws I've found.

Let's not forget that this wasn't the Superbowl they lost, this wasn't the AFC championship. This was a one and done against a division rival on the Patriots own turf and they got pushed around.

 

[The Scrizz]

It's interesting you find my analysis shoddy when you haven't been able to defend even one of your points when confronted by mine. I still stand by everything I've said, I haven't waivered in my convictions here, YOU started by stating that it was a poorly executed screen pass, then it was 2 or 3 things that according to you (without showing your work) are all better now, and NOW it's a screen pass and a dropped TD pass. I'm guessing if we keep this up long enough you'll have a massive laundry list of failures that amounted to the Patriots losing that playoff game that even outnumbers the flaws I've found.

Let's not forget that this wasn't the Superbowl they lost, this wasn't the AFC championship. This was a one and done against a division rival on the Patriots own turf and they got pushed around.

To paraphrase the great Bill Parcells "once you get into the tournament anybody can win it".

I put a lot more faith in what I saw over a full season than in what happened in 1 playoff game.

 

[Eat Da Pu Pu]

To paraphrase the great Bill Parcells "once you get into the tournament anybody can win it".

I put a lot more faith in what I saw over a full season than in what happened in 1 playoff game.

That same faith was why everyone looked at the 45-3 beatdown and thought the Jets didn't have a chance.

The Patriots are a great team and have as much a chance as the Steelers, a healthy Colts team or The Baltimore Ravens of coming out of the AFC. I don't know where or why my statement that I think the Patriots become the consensus favorites if the land Osi turned into "PATS ARE DA STINKZ AND JETS PWNED THEM"

 

[PatriotsInGA]

I found this gem regarding Osi to the Pats on the Jets board

The Patriots can have him for a 6th rounder and bucket of chowder.
Everyone else has to give a 2nd or higher + their first born.