Major lost leads = blame goes to defense

[Satchboogie3]

The last sentence is important, and makes a lot of sense to your case.

My point is that besides a mistake or 2 on offense, are you really not going to expect some stops at times for Miami? If they kick the FG that's 24 pts they scored today + moved the ball all over the field at times.

Is the defense really impressing you? If we had any kind of defense at all, they'd have never let IND back into it, they'd never have blown leads of 17, 14, 10, etc. I agree that the offense needs more work, but in a game where you move the ball as well as today, what do you really want from them?

I can see if TB had a bad day, couldn't hit anyone. I'd agree if Moss couldn't get open like v. NYJ, or if Wes wasn't himself. I'd agree if Aiken didn't contribute, or if the o-line looked real bad. But that didn't happen today, at least not more than any other average game.

I respect your opinion, but in a short week where we didn't have as much time to prepare--I still think the offense did an alright job. It's the defense who is getting ripped apart, and doesn't provide too many good things.

Again, it doesn't matter how many yards we get, all that matters is if we score POINTS. What offense is better, one that scores 30 points a game on 300 yards or 25 points a game on 420 yards? Of course, the one that scores more points.

What is the point of driving 60+ yards into the redzone when you either turn the ball over or continually go for it on 4th down and come away with nothing?

 

[crowell33]

It's obvious we must put in BJGE, Hoyer, and Nunn for the first quarter.

Nunn is no longer on the practice squad. ( All hope is lost ! )

 

[okterrific]

Its the offense.

No, it's not. If the offense performed better, would they have won? Yes. If the defense performed better, would they have won? Yes. Obviously, that is not the way to judge this issue.

 

[DougFlutie]

Again, it doesn't matter how many yards we get, all that matters is if we score POINTS. What offense is better, one that scores 30 points a game on 300 yards or 25 points a game on 420 yards? Of course, the one that scores more points.

What is the point of driving 60+ yards into the redzone when you either turn the ball over or continually go for it on 4th down and come away with nothing?

I don't even care about scoring 100 points a game.

I just want to score 1 more than the other team, and this 7-5 team can't do that against good teams or on the road.

The D stepped up the last 25 minutes of this game, the offense didn't.

 

[supafly]

The thing is many fans will point to how the offense can't be at fault since they are so good at generating yards (in the 1st half).

In a lot of circles, A QB who had only missed 1 pass through most of the half, put up 350 yds, and hit a few deep balls would be considered a good day. Sure he made a mistake, that isn't human? He certainly didn't have a lousy game, did he? Especially with all of the talk of his finger, etc + how he returned immediately after the big hit. TB did OK today in my book. If you're basing our ability to win on TB doing better, that's pretty bad.

Same goes for Welker, Faulk, Maroney. The O-line. Maybe they didn't convert as much as they needed to but any other day, they don't leave 7-10 pts on the field either. When you score in the mid-20's, your defense should be in a decent position to win the game. The offense had leads of 14, 8, 4, and 2 but couldn't close the deal.

Besides TBC looking alright, and Wilfork/Warren doing their jobs (for the most part) what can you say about the great efforts that the defense put up today?

 

[DougFlutie]

In a lot of circles, A QB who had only missed 1 pass through most of the half, put up 350 yds, and hit a few deep balls would be considered a good day. Sure he made a mistake, that isn't human? He certainly didn't have a lousy game, did he? Especially with all of the talk of his finger, etc + how he returned immediately after the big hit. TB did OK today in my book. If you're basing our ability to win on TB doing better, that's pretty bad.

He did have a great 1st half, they had some good pre-game planning going into this game.

With 25 mins left in this game, why couldn't the offense do ANYTHING when it mattered?

 

[supafly]

Again, it doesn't matter how many yards we get, all that matters is if we score POINTS. What offense is better, one that scores 30 points a game on 300 yards or 25 points a game on 420 yards? Of course, the one that scores more points.

What is the point of driving 60+ yards into the redzone when you either turn the ball over or continually go for it on 4th down and come away with nothing?

I understand you need more pts to win, but when talking about how they looked it does matter.

If you go to your kids' football game, and he's the QB today, are you really going to say "my kid did a crappy job at QB today, he only put up 350 yds, hit some great passes while injured, etc, and made me proud while playing through pain---but at the same time he looked like crap." (??)

No, you're going to say "for the most part they moved the ball well, put the team in position to win, and did their jobs pretty well." you're going to say the o-line did well against the 2nd ranked team in sacks. You're going to say that the 3rd WR made some big plays, and that the scrappy WR looked like himslef.

Now, do you get the picture a little better?

 

[TP76]

It's both...


The offensive scheme is horrible... lot of yards, but not when it counts. Same flaws exhibited by the run&shoot. Line two backs behind Brady and run the ball out of a power running set with Baker out there. Commit to the running game and that will open up play action. They did bring Brady under center more in the first half - that's not enough. You got to commit to running the damn ball.

Sure, if he connects on those bombs we might get our first road win. But how about some time-consuming, backbreaking drives in the 4th this team used to be known for? What's wrong with the model that won three superbowls? Instead we get a QB that needs to pop in some Bledsoe footage and see what happens when you got a guy who fixates on the deep ball too often.

Now we have some hybrid run&shoot that's failing to put even mediocre teams away on the road... and suffers from the very serious flaws that offense is known for.

Defensively, yeah this team has issues... no more mentally tough players... just guys who blow coverage at the worst times, coupled with an anemic pass rush. I have no idea how Henne missed that RB out of the backfield - he had nobody within 15 yards of him. The blitz packages are ridiculously simple (maybe because the players are ridiculously simple) and easily defeated with a simple crossing route and a hot read. Saw that repeatedly today. Blitzes were unimaginative and grossly ineffective. I saw one blitz where Mayo ran right into the center and was trying to hopelessly bullrush him...WTF was that?!

This team has issues... and it's between the ears (players and coaches)..

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Some fans are never able to blame the offenses for losses.
This one was on the offense. It puts immense strain whenever an opposing QB has a dozen+ drive opportunities in a game.

Right again DF.
Peyton Manning had FOURTEEN possessions against the Patriot defense.
Manning was handed 14 shots at the Pats D.
The Pats D forced 7 punts and 2 picks before collapsing in the 4th quarter. Where was this offense to control the ball, burn some clock and help them out in the 4th quarter of that game too?? This offense has been HORRIBLE with the game on the line and not just in red zone scoring. They've been awful in clock management and ball control. Just awful!!! And the O is the far more talented and experienced of the 2 groups. Inexcusable!!

 

[mayoclinic]

The last sentence is important, and makes a lot of sense to your case.

My point is that besides a mistake or 2 on offense, are you really not going to expect some stops at times for Miami? If they kick the FG that's 24 pts they scored today + moved the ball all over the field at times.

Is the defense really impressing you? If we had any kind of defense at all, they'd have never let IND back into it, they'd never have blown leads of 17, 14, 10, etc. I agree that the offense needs more work, but in a game where you move the ball as well as today, what do you really want from them?

I can see if TB had a bad day, couldn't hit anyone. I'd agree if Moss couldn't get open like v. NYJ, or if Wes wasn't himself. I'd agree if Aiken didn't contribute, or if the o-line looked real bad. But that didn't happen today, at least not more than any other average game.

I respect your opinion, but in a short week where we didn't have as much time to prepare--I still think the offense did an alright job. It's the defense who is getting ripped apart, and doesn't provide too many good things.

First, losing is obviously the fault of the entire team - the offense, the defense, special teams, and the coaching staff.

But we went into this season with a young defense that we knew was rebuilding. A lot of people thought that we would be OK because our offense would put up 2007 kind of numbers, and that we would need them to win.

Our defense has been respectable at the least. Better than that at times. Poor on a few occasions, but overall respectable. We're giving up less than 20 PPG. But our offense has scored 21 points our less in 33% of our games so far this season (4/12), all losses: 9 against the Jets (0 in the 2nd half with a lead), 17 against the Broncos (0 in the 2nd half with a 10 point lead), New Orleans, and Miami (0 after 3 minutes into the 2nd half, with an 11 point lead). We just can't expect to do those things and win those games. And we keep blowing red zone opportunities. BB keeps going for it on 4th down, and the offense has failed to deliver repeatedly.

The offense can't reliably get it done. And the defense isn't good enough to shut the other team down and protect a lead. That's the story of this season. And it's a very bad combination.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Why do we need to point the blame after every loss?

Perhaps overall we are just not that good this year ... they all share in their record.

 

[DougFlutie]

Right again DF.
Peyton Manning had FOURTEEN possessions against the Patriot defense.
Manning was handed 14 shots at the Pats D.
The Pats D forced 7 punts and 2 picks before collapsing in the 4th quarter. Where was this offense to control the ball, burn some clock and help them out in the 4th quarter of that game too?? This offense has been HORRIBLE with the game on the line and not just in red zone scoring. They've been awful in clock management and ball control. Just awful!!! And the O is the far more talented and experienced of the 2 groups. Inexcusable!!

Yup.

TP76 hit the nail on the head calling our offense similar to the run-n-shoot. It can be stopped...

 

[supafly]

He did have a great 1st half, they had some good pre-game planning going into this game.

With 25 mins left in this game, why couldn't the offense do ANYTHING when it mattered?

But they did !!!

They came out and scored another TD, and were driving for another on 2nd and goal but made a 'mistake.'

For the most part, I would think an OC/offensive minded coach would've watched today, and said that they looked alright. What would you give them? I'd say a C+.

Besides the pick in the EZ (which would've made 4 offensive TD's and 28 pts) they looked alright.

Besides, the point is, we KNOW we can compete on offense. Maybe we won't get 'em every single time, but we know we have a Wes Welker, a Moss, a TFB. What we don't feel good about, and don't have confidence is the defense.

 

[DougFlutie]

Besides, the point is, we KNOW we can compete on offense. Maybe we won't get 'em every single time, but we know we have a Wes Welker, a Moss, a TFB. What we don't feel good about, and don't have confidence is the defense.

Actually this defense showed me a lot today. They made a ton of stops in the last 25 minutes of this game.

The offense did nothing in the last 25 minutes.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I was looking at it more simply, as in the offense put us in position to win by getting us major leads in these games--therefore the defense wasn't doing it's job by allowing the other team to continue scoring.

But obviously I am in the minority, so apparently I am looking at things the wrong way, and admitting I am wrong.

I saw 2 basic mistakes today on offense, one was not kicking the FG, which could be blamed on the coaching. The 2nd was not running the ball when on the 5, at 2nd and goal--therefore leading to the INT. Other than that, the offense seemed to move the ball pretty well, as Brady, Moss, Welker, and Aiken put up good numbers.

Basically, I feel a lot better/more confident when the offense is on the field, than I do the defense. They continue to make mediocre QB's such as Edwards, Orton, Sanchez (1st time) and Henne look damn good. I'll meet you in the middle and say the offense has problems, but we have zero pass rush, trouble even stopping the run, and horrible CB coverage on our L side (their R) of the secondary. I still think we're 8-4 even 9-3 with improvements on D.

The defense is pretty consistent in its points allowed- it's the offense that surges out of its gate then dies at halftime.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Besides, the point is, we KNOW we can compete on offense. Maybe we won't get 'em every single time, but we know we have a Wes Welker, a Moss, a TFB. What we don't feel good about, and don't have confidence is the defense.

Then your memories of 2007 are clouding your judgment. Check out where we rank in 4th quarter (or 2nd half in general, for that matter) scoring sometime.

 

[Joker]

The defense is pretty consistent in its points allowed- it's the offense that surges out of its gate then dies at halftime.

on the road

schizo offense

 

[Satchboogie3]

In a lot of circles, A QB who had only missed 1 pass through most of the half, put up 350 yds, and hit a few deep balls would be considered a good day. Sure he made a mistake, that isn't human? He certainly didn't have a lousy game, did he? Especially with all of the talk of his finger, etc + how he returned immediately after the big hit. TB did OK today in my book. If you're basing our ability to win on TB doing better, that's pretty bad.

Same goes for Welker, Faulk, Maroney. The O-line. Maybe they didn't convert as much as they needed to but any other day, they don't leave 7-10 pts on the field either. When you score in the mid-20's, your defense should be in a decent position to win the game. The offense had leads of 14, 8, 4, and 2 but couldn't close the deal.

Besides TBC looking alright, and Wilfork/Warren doing their jobs (for the most part) what can you say about the great efforts that the defense put up today?

It doesn't matter how you start, only how you finish. The fact is that the Pats offense can't do ANYTHING in the 2nd half. ANYTHING.

Here is how pathetic our offense was in the 2nd half today:
Time of possession: Pats - 10:52 out of 30 minutes

With a 14-10 lead at half-time:
1st possession: 1 play, 81 yards TD
2nd possession: 3 and out

Now with a 21-19 lead late in the 3rd Quarter:
3rd possession: only 3:10 burned, punt
4th possession: 3:08 burned, ball at MIA 5, Brady throws an endzone INT on 2nd down. Why aren't we running here?
5th possession: 3 and out, only 1:58 burned
6th possession: 2nd straight 3 and out, with 4:44 left our offense burns only 49 seconds.
Miami gets a FG and with one minute left:
7th possession: INT to end the game.

Outside of 1 play, that is an absolutely pathetic 2nd half offensive performance. There is no way to spin it.

 

[supafly]

First, losing is obviously the fault of the entire team - the offense, the defense, special teams, and the coaching staff.

But we went into this season with a young defense that we knew was rebuilding. A lot of people thought that we would be OK because our offense would put up 2007 kind of numbers, and that we would need them to win.

Our defense has been respectable at the least. Better than that at times. Poor on a few occasions, but overall respectable. We're giving up less than 20 PPG. But our offense has scored 21 points our less in 33% of our games so far this season (4/12), all losses: 9 against the Jets (0 in the 2nd half with a lead), 17 against the Broncos (0 in the 2nd half with a 10 point lead), New Orleans, and Miami (0 after 3 minutes into the 2nd half, with an 11 point lead). We just can't expect to do those things and win those games. And we keep blowing red zone opportunities. BB keeps going for it on 4th down, and the offense has failed to deliver repeatedly.

The offense can't reliably get it done. And the defense isn't good enough to shut the other team down and protect a lead. That's the story of this season. And it's a very bad combination.

So, what you're basically saying is that because they are absolute superstars, and have set an incredibly high bar---going in for your 4th offensive TD and 28 pts on 2nd and goal isn't good enough any more?

So, in order for this team to win, Brady not only has to play through pain in various areas, throw for 350+, hit Moss on deep balls, establish a #3 WR for sufficient action + a long TD, scramble through a patchwork line, throw to Welker 10 times a game to get his touches/yards, score 3 offensive TD's, control the clock....but he has to do it better. I see now.

So, when we get our #3 WR in the game, etc, still throw deep to Moss, have the game centralized around Welker, etc, and are going in for the 4TH offensive TD of the game.....we just have to do it better.

So, Moss needed to catch several long TD passes then, Brady had to throw for 450+, and Aiken had to become Reggie Wayne overnight for all of Patriot Nation to be satisfied with the offensive production. I am beginning to understand everyone's POV now.

So, If you're O'Brien/BB--what would you suggest that this almighty juggernaught of an offense do then to improve?

Maybe you have to consider the fact that our standards are getting ridiculously out of control, because I think a lot of teams would've been pretty happy to have been going in for their 4th offensive TD of the day, on the road against a good D. Oh yeah, with an injured QB, patchwork line, and all on a shortened week when your team is coming off a disabling loss.

 

[DougFlutie]

It doesn't matter how you start, only how you finish. The fact is that the Pats offense can't do ANYTHING in the 2nd half. ANYTHING.

Here is how pathetic our offense was in the 2nd half today:
Time of possession: Pats - 10:52 out of 30 minutes

With a 14-10 lead at half-time:
1st possession: 1 play, 81 yards TD
2nd possession: 3 and out

Now with a 21-19 lead late in the 3rd Quarter:
3rd possession: only 3:10 burned, punt
4th possession: 3:08 burned, ball at MIA 5, Brady throws an endzone INT on 2nd down. Why aren't we running here?
5th possession: 3 and out, only 1:58 burned
6th possession: 2nd straight 3 and out, with 4:44 left our offense burns only 49 seconds.
Miami gets a FG and with one minute left:
7th possession: INT to end the game.

Outside of 1 play, that is an absolutely pathetic 2nd half offensive performance. There is no way to spin it.

It can't be a talent issue when we have Brady, Moss, Welker, Mankins, Maroney, Faulk, Light, Watson, etc.