Maddon is a better manager than Fran-coma:

[Wolfpack]

Injuries and management aside Wolfpack, a team that is in the position to spend considerably more than most of their competitors and bookends the season with 2-10 and 5-20 needs questions asked of the roster, coaching and administration.

That's what we call cherry picking stats. I'm not going to say I'm not disappointed with the way this season is finishing up. But I also refuse to call it a "debacle". And I refuse to join the bandwagon of people that wanted to fire Belichick in 2001, Doc Rivers in 2006, Francona in 2007, Claude Julien in 2010 and now Francona again in 2011.

 

[ausbacker]

That's what we call cherry picking stats. I'm not going to say I'm not disappointed with the way this season is finishing up. But I also refuse to call it a "debacle". And I refuse to join the bandwagon of people that wanted to fire Belichick in 2001, Doc Rivers in 2006, Francona in 2007, Claude Julien in 2010 and now Francona again in 2011.

It's not cherry picking stats it's the reality you don't seem capable of grasping.

I'm hopeful the Sox make the playoffs but this current slide and team composition MUST be addressed in the offseason (whenever that may be). 170 odd million to show glimpses of brilliance is not good enough.

Let's just hope they close out against the Orioles and the Rays stumble. Anything can happen then.

 

[chicowalker]

That's what we call cherry picking stats. I'm not going to say I'm not disappointed with the way this season is finishing up. But I also refuse to call it a "debacle". And I refuse to join the bandwagon of people that wanted to fire Belichick in 2001, Doc Rivers in 2006, Francona in 2007, Claude Julien in 2010 and now Francona again in 2011.

agreed.

The one guy I do question is Curt Young, as no pitchers have really outperformed. I was also alarmed when Bard apparently detected the problem with is mechanics after the string of 3 bad outings -- shouldn't your coach be on top of that?

If Young has had success in the role elsewhere, I'd give him slack, but I'm not sure off the top of my head how good Oakland's pitching was during his tenure there.

 

[Wolfpack]

It's not cherry picking stats it's the reality you don't seem capable of grasping.

Actually, isloating the first 2 weeks and final 4 weeks of a 26-week season is pretty much the textbook definition of cherry picking stats. I'm upset too. But at least I can think calmly and rationally.

I'm hopeful the Sox make the playoffs but this current slide and team composition MUST be addressed in the offseason (whenever that may be). 170 odd million to show glimpses of brilliance is not good enough.

I agree there's plenty we need to address. And there are plenty of bad signings. I'm just saying how spoiled we are when being tied for the Wild Card so late in the season is considered a "debacle". Baseball fans in Queens (a team that can't exactly cry poverty) would be ecstatic to be where we are.

 

[ausbacker]

Actually, isloating the first 2 weeks and final 4 weeks of a 26-week season is pretty much the textbook definition of cherry picking stats. I'm upset too. But at least I can think calmly and rationally.

No it isn't but suit yourself.

There is nothing irrational about discussing the current Red Sox predicament whilst pointing the finger at those responsible for team construction. Even the Braves are murred in the same predicament. It's not confined to the Sox but this team is Jekyll & Hyde. There's no middle ground. They're either amazing or ****.

I agree there's plenty we need to address. And there are plenty of bad signings. I'm just saying how spoiled we are when being tied for the Wild Card so late in the season is considered a "debacle". Baseball fans in Queens (a team that can't exactly cry poverty) would be ecstatic to be where we are.

I agree Boston sports fans are spoilt. The Red Sox set their own expectations before the season. A 90 win season is a damn good effort, however the Sox have laid a brick at the most inopportune time. That merits discussion and people have every right to voice their concern. I'm just hoping they make the playoffs as everyone starts 0-0.

Fortunately for us Boston sports fans, success isn't measured by what makes other cities or teams happy is it.

 

[Run DMC]

Article about the genius we should be all about hiring:
Ahead of the curve: Inside the mind of Maddon

 

[scout]

Apparently your not very old. I lived through the '67 '75 '86 World series collapses plus 50 years of Red Sox failure. Then there have been Millions of people who were born live a full life and died without seeing the RS win a world series. Tito accomplished the mission Twice, you need to get some Real perspective. To constantly complain about the Franco show how spoiled rotten you are. You've probably seen the Red Sox win Two WS and think this is a common occurence, its not.

I always felt that Madden was the best manager in baseball. In regards to Tito, I don't get why he was let go. Right, bring in an unknown who will take this band of misfits and make them perform, sigh. Tito was one of the best managers in baseball, with a bad year. Yea, Theo's an idiot. He traded one of the most popular Sox of all time and put together pieces to bring a World Championship to Boston. For good measure, he won again. Spin it however you like, but no one in my life-time or my dad's life had done that. I don't care about his bad trades and acquisitions, he gets a free pass for as long as I live. If your old enough you'll get that. I'm thinking someone with a name like Run DMC might not.

 

[Wolfpack]

I always felt that Madden was the best manager in baseball. In regards to Tito, I don't get why he was let go.

He was let go because he wanted to be let go. It was pretty obvious from the things he said (as well as the things he didnt say) that he wanted to leave Boston and not have his options picked up.

The question is: Why did Tito want to leave? Was it because of a rift with upper management? Sick of the spoiled millionaire babies in the clubhouse? Or just tired of having to deal with the local baseball media and culture for the past 8 years?

 

[captain insano]

get ready for a revolving door in the managers office at fenway from now on. theres going to be a new manager every two years from now on. just like the old losing days.

 

[Run DMC]

I always felt that Madden was the best manager in baseball. In regards to Tito, I don't get why he was let go. Right, bring in an unknown who will take this band of misfits and make them perform, sigh. Tito was one of the best managers in baseball, with a bad year. Yea, Theo's an idiot. He traded one of the most popular Sox of all time and put together pieces to bring a World Championship to Boston. For good measure, he won again. Spin it however you like, but no one in my life-time or my dad's life had done that. I don't care about his bad trades and acquisitions, he gets a free pass for as long as I live. If your old enough you'll get that. I'm thinking someone with a name like Run DMC might not.

No need to be a hater, bro. I was indoctrinated into the losing ways of the Sox in 1975. I've seen this team suck for years up until the miraculous 2004 campaign. And I do not think Tito is that great of a manager. His decision making sucks. And ps, he was fired. Read Shag in the globe for those of you in denial about what happened here. Life will go on.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba..._the_spin___the_red_sox_fired_terry_francona/

 

[Wolfpack]

No need to be a hater, bro. I was indoctrinated into the losing ways of the Sox in 1975. I've seen this team suck for years up until the miraculous 2004 campaign. And I do not think Tito is that great of a manager. His decision making sucks. And ps, he was fired. Read Shag in the globe for those of you in denial about what happened here. Life will go on.
Boston Red Sox - Ignore the spin - the Red Sox fired Terry Francona - The Boston Globe

Is that what we're going with? Shank Shaugnessey says it, so it must be true?

Terry Francona was a great manager primarily because of all the things that took place behind the scenes that never made it onto the front pages to become a huge distraction. It's something I doubt many will ever appreciate because they just never know about the disasters that were avoided.

 

[Run DMC]

Shag is a tool, but he's also one of the top sportswriters in the country. So, I'd be slightly inclined to believe him over the opinion of some anonymous jagoff on a message board. Umm, yeah.

 

[chicowalker]

Shag is a tool, but he's also one of the top sportswriters in the country...

How is he one of the "top sportswriters" in the country (especially while also being a tool)?

 

[scout]

No need to be a hater, bro. I was indoctrinated into the losing ways of the Sox in 1975. I've seen this team suck for years up until the miraculous 2004 campaign. And I do not think Tito is that great of a manager. His decision making sucks. And ps, he was fired. Read Shag in the globe for those of you in denial about what happened here. Life will go on.
Boston Red Sox - Ignore the spin - the Red Sox fired Terry Francona - The Boston Globe

There is more to managing then what happens between the lines. You could multiply that last statement X 10 with the Sox. It is a fact that great players and great managers have declined playing/managing for the Sox due to that reason. 1975? Wow, you saw Lynn, Rice and company lose after the media gave them the World Series half way through the year. **** Williams was a great X and O manager. Tough on his players and took a last place team to the World Series. Could not manage outside the lines. Oh yea, tougher loss that year then in 1975.

 

[Run DMC]

There is more to managing then what happens between the lines. You could multiply that last statement X 10 with the Sox. It is a fact that great players and great managers have declined playing/managing for the Sox due to that reason. 1975? Wow, you saw Lynn, Rice and company lose after the media gave them the World Series half way through the year. **** Williams was a great X and O manager. Tough on his players and took a last place team to the World Series. Could not manage outside the lines. Oh yea, tougher loss that year then in 1975.

I was an 8 yo kid in 75. Broke my heart for the 1st, and sadly not the last time. My fave player was Yaz and then Lynn. Man, those were the days...

 

[Run DMC]

How is he one of the "top sportswriters" in the country (especially while also being a tool)?

You're gonna have to ask the "public" on that one. I see the guy on ESPN, CSN, NESN regularly. He writes for one the top papers in the country? I would imagine he has a little more insight into the world of pro sports than some chimp sitting behind a keyboard in their mom's basement? Call me crazy.

 

[Run DMC]

My original point in starting this thread was to explore the idea that Maddon is a great manager. 50 mill payroll in a small organization and he gets these kinds of results? The guy is doing something right. He completely owns the Sox right now. Is that up for debate?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

My original point in starting this thread was to explore the idea that Maddon is a great manager. 50 mill payroll in a small organization and he gets these kinds of results? The guy is doing something right. He completely owns the Sox right now. Is that up for debate?

No, Maddon is a great manager, but Tito was right for the job here in 2004, he brough two WS titles, maybe it was time for him to go but I thank the man for the greatest baseball season in my life (2004). BTW, Tito was brilliant between the lines in those playoffs.

 

[Run DMC]

No, Maddon is a great manager, but Tito was right for the job here in 2004, he brough two WS titles, maybe it was time for him to go but I thank the man for the greatest baseball season in my life (2004). BTW, Tito was brilliant between the lines in those playoffs.

I actually agree with you on those points. Now, however, it has slipped away from him and it was time to go. I thank him for lifting the 86 year curse and wish the man well.

 

[chicowalker]

You're gonna have to ask the "public" on that one. I see the guy on ESPN, CSN, NESN regularly. He writes for one the top papers in the country? I would imagine he has a little more insight into the world of pro sports than some chimp sitting behind a keyboard in their mom's basement? Call me crazy.

Don't call yourself a chimp, but if the rest of the description is apt for you, well, things might get better for you one day if you apply yourself.

I'm pretty sure you don't know many sportswriters. There are a few who are quite knowledgeable in particular fields. There are beat reporters who travel with teams and are trusted and get a lot of inside information. Shaughnessy is neither. He's unprofessional at his job and away from it.