Low hit on Bradys Knee

[Fixit]

"However, a QB is the most vulnerable player on the pitch because when he's stepping in to a throw, he has no way to brace and protect himself. Therefore diving below the knee is an incredibly dangerous play given the fragile position the knee is in."

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. QB's should have rules to protect them, because they're the only players who are standing still, legs planted, looking downfield, and completely exposed. Once they become a ball carrier, light 'em up, for all I care.

Edited to add: I will say that the late hit flags are getting a little crazy.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm a big fan of it. What coach, in the history of football, ever teaches a guy to go above the chest/shoulder area? None what so ever.

In contrast, some coaches will preach to take bigger ball carriers below the hips because it's sometimes the best way to bring him down if you're an undersized corner...but the QB isn't a ball carrier until he tucks and runs.

However, a QB is the most vulnerable player on the pitch because when he's stepping in to a throw, he has no way to brace and protect himself. Therefore diving below the knee is an incredibly dangerous play given the fragile position the knee is in.

If you tackle a QB the way a form tackle is supposed to be made you should, by logic, never be flagged for an illegal hit on a QB. So anyone getting flagged for contact with a QBs head or below the knees is an idiot and only has himself to blame.

Wilfork's hit on Jones on Sunday is a class example of how you can play clean and hard football without launching, diving at knees and hitting high. There's no excuse for it and the league is 100 % right to clamp down on it.

If you've ever played defense at any level whatsoever, you'd know that coaches also teach you to get to the quarterback at all costs if he's dropping back to pass and if your primary assignment is to rush the passer. In this instance, Bernard Pollard's play can be seen as the most likely play where there was actual intent to injure. This one didn't look like there was intent and was simply just an extra effort to do his job as he's been trained to do so since he played pee-wee football. It's a shame, and is something that, again, many people here would complain about if the Patriots defense drew that flag because of Wilfork, for example, doing it to Fitzpatrick.

 

[RayClay]

If you tackle a QB the way a form tackle is supposed to be made you should, by logic, never be flagged for an illegal hit on a QB. So anyone getting flagged for contact with a QBs head or below the knees is an idiot and only has himself to blame.

Excuse me sir, I am inevitably going to tackle you on this play, so could you please not move, or try to evade me since that may put me in an awkward position where, what seemed at one time to be a perfectly legal form tackle, becomes questionable in a real time situation.

Also, if you would alert your five compatriots, and all others that have been working so actively to prevent me from arriving at the point of contact, much less in perfect form and balance, that it is futile, and indeed probably counterproductive, I would like to proceed to make is tackle in the proper area and before the throwing motion is completed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[upstater1]

All these posts and no one here even mentions the Carson Palmer rule?

If a defensive player falls to the ground, he cannot go low at the QB. He must make an effort to come up and then hit the QB.

In other words, Williams deserved a flag. The rule literally says you can't do what he did.

Granted I was at the game and saw it happen in real motion, and then again in replay, but I also wonder whether the TV replay was as good as the stadiums, because Williams was down on the ground and CRAWLED over to Brady before using his arm to take him down across his knee. I didn't see it as a dirty play precisely but I also don't think it had anything to do with his momentum, and it was definitely illegal.

We saw last year Brady take more shots without flags than any other QB, and we even saw in the Bills games where Fitzpatrick got an elbow to the thigh area flagged for 15 yards (got them out of their own end zone) and then a push to the shoulders which sent him head over heels to the turf also flagged. And hits on Brady are hardly ever flagged comparatively. Mike Pereira for heaven's sake even did an analysis that showed this, and yet you still have supposed Pats fans in this thread claiming the reverse.

 

[upstater1]

Excuse me sir, I am inevitably going to tackle you on this play, so could you please not move, or try to evade me since that may put me in an awkward position where, what seemed at one time to be a perfectly legal form tackle, becomes questionable in a real time situation.

Also, if you would alert your five compatriots, and all others that have been working so actively to prevent me from arriving at the point of contact, much less in perfect form and balance, that it is futile, and indeed probably counterproductive, I would like to proceed to make is tackle in the proper area and before the throwing motion is completed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

You must not have watched the same play I did. Williams was on the ground, he had no momentum, was not off balance at all.

 

[brdmaverick]

Any time someone is withing 2 feet of Brady's legs I cringe. I hate how people were saying that they only called a penalty because it was Brady when I see it called for every single quarterback. Also, I can't believe (but I'm happy) that Fitzpatrick wasn't injured when he got hit high and low and bent over backwards. Looked scary.

Good point, but maybe there is something to the "penalty because it's Brady" if they called it for Brady but not Fitzpatrick. I'll have to watch the play again, maybe a guy got blocked into Fitzpatrick.

I do know that there was a pretty blatant hit at Kolb's legs in the Arizona game that was not called. I'll see if I can dig up the footage.

Yes, I know, like any other judgement penalty some will be called and some won't but I feel like "low hit on the quarterback" is the most inconsistent. I have a theory as to why that is. When a QB gets hit low, most often the ball has already been released. Therefore, the actual penalty of hitting the QB low almost always has zero impact on the actual result of the play. Therefore, I think refs sometimes have a tough time throwing a game changing flag (15 yards, automatic first down) for something that didn't even influence the play. (Yes, I realize if a player gets hurt it may not have influenced the play but it would influence the game, but you know what I mean).

 

[chasa]

When Kyle arrived at Brady's legs,Brady's leg bent but Kyle DID NOT continue to hold onto the leg as Brady went to the ground,he released his hold......THAT is the difference between dirty and not dirty play.

Missing from your assesment is 1.) the hit was late by about 2 seconds. 2.) love just brushed off his blocked, turned from a standing position and dove at bradys knee, He intentionally went at the knee, which is a penalty unless you are blocked into it by accident.

This was an incredibly dangerous hit. Luckily Tom wears braces on both legs now.

 

[RayClay]

"However, a QB is the most vulnerable player on the pitch because when he's stepping in to a throw, he has no way to brace and protect himself. Therefore diving below the knee is an incredibly dangerous play given the fragile position the knee is in."

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. QB's should have rules to protect them, because they're the only players who are standing still, legs planted, looking downfield, and completely exposed. Once they become a ball carrier, light 'em up, for all I care.

Edited to add: I will say that the late hit flags are getting a little crazy.

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't a penalty. People are saying he lined him up for an intentionally dirty hit. I thought he let up, otherwise it would have been bad. These guys are in motion.

 

[UK_Pat37]

If you've ever played defense at any level whatsoever, you'd know that coaches also teach you to get to the quarterback at all costs if he's dropping back to pass and if your primary assignment is to rush the passer. In this instance, Bernard Pollard's play can be seen as the most likely play where there was actual intent to injure. This one didn't look like there was intent and was simply just an extra effort to do his job as he's been trained to do so since he played pee-wee football. It's a shame, and is something that, again, many people here would complain about if the Patriots defense drew that flag because of Wilfork, for example, doing it to Fitzpatrick.

I played QB and made a switch to DB..so I fully understand both positions, both sides of the ball and I have already said I don't believe the hit on Brady was any intent to injure. I don't even think Pollard's was. As you say, 'at all costs'. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be fined and flagged though and it doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try and tackle the form way and stick within the rules. People shouldn't victimise players for trying to do their job.

Excuse me sir, I am inevitably going to tackle you on this play, so could you please not move, or try to evade me since that may put me in an awkward position where, what seemed at one time to be a perfectly legal form tackle, becomes questionable in a real time situation.

Also, if you would alert your five compatriots, and all others that have been working so actively to prevent me from arriving at the point of contact, much less in perfect form and balance, that it is futile, and indeed probably counterproductive, I would like to proceed to make is tackle in the proper area and before the throwing motion is completed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Don't be a smart ass or moronic.

If you've ever played, you would know the form tackle...square up, bend the knees, straight back, keep your head up, get your head across the body, make contact with your inside shoulder, first step outside, second step cut the ball carrier in half, explode through...is taught because it's the most efficient and the safest in all situations.

Low hits and high hits are completely unnessecary. Tackling the way you're taught is as proven a method as any other and FYI, except in the situation I stated, no coach ever asks you to tackle any other way.

 

[RayClay]

You must not have watched the same play I did. Williams was on the ground, he had no momentum, was not off balance at all.

Well, I saw the play but don't have benefit of seeing it again on tape. It was a penalty, it was a mistake. I think he made a mistake trying to make a play, not intentionally trying to injure like Pollard would. Seems to be what Brady thinks too. I don't know if he ever said Pollard was a great player and it's part of the game, though i can't recall.

 

[Fixit]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't a penalty. People are saying he lined him up for an intentionally dirty hit. I thought he let up, otherwise it would have been bad. These guys are in motion.

Kontra said something about overprotection and pink skirts. And many posters here (maybe not in this particular thread) express the same sentiment.

 

[RayClay]

I played QB and made a switch to DB..so I fully understand both positions, both sides of the ball and I have already said I don't believe the hit on Brady was any intent to injure. I don't even think Pollard's was. As you say, 'at all costs'. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be fined and flagged though and it doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try and tackle the form way and stick within the rules. People shouldn't victimise players for trying to do their job.



Don't be a smart ass or moronic.

If you've ever played, you would know the form tackle...square up, bend the knees, straight back, keep your head up, get your head across the body, make contact with your inside shoulder, first step outside, second step cut the ball carrier in half, explode through...is taught because it's the most efficient and the safest in all situations.

Low hits and high hits are completely unnessecary. Tackling the way you're taught is as proven a method as any other and FYI, except in the situation I stated, no coach ever asks you to tackle any other way.

Well, if every player is always in that perfect tackling position every time they make a hit, even though their target is always moving, as are all the blockers and other defensive players, then I stand corrected.

Amazing that those two Patriots players that folded Fitzpatrick up like a Murphy bed managed to maintain perfect tackling position while both hitting him nowhere but in the torso.

cut the ball carrier in half, explode through

You're talking about tackling a ball carrier coming at you. Doesn't seem the same as a DE who has been evading blockers and lunging at a QB who is likely moving up in the pocket to try to evade him, or am I missing something? Usually they would just be grabbing at anything while still off balance from evading the blocker.

Are we talking about the same thing?

 

[RayClay]

Kontra said something about overprotection and pink skirts. And many posters here (maybe not in this particular thread) express the same sentiment.

I missed that.

 

[Kontradiction]

I played QB and made a switch to DB..so I fully understand both positions, both sides of the ball and I have already said I don't believe the hit on Brady was any intent to injure. I don't even think Pollard's was. As you say, 'at all costs'. Doesn't mean he shouldn't be fined and flagged though and it doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try and tackle the form way and stick within the rules. People shouldn't victimise players for trying to do their job.

So Williams, with the Patriots threatening, should have lied still face down on the ground as Brady wound up, potentially hurting his team, because of the rules? Sorry, but if I have a DL that actually abides by this, I want them off the team. Take the chance at the flag for the increased certainty of stopping the opposing offense.

 

[nabwong]

In the same game, ninko (I think) had the same situation with Fitzpatrick

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Any time someone is withing 2 feet of Brady's legs I cringe. I hate how people were saying that they only called a penalty because it was Brady when I see it called for every single quarterback. Also, I can't believe (but I'm happy) that Fitzpatrick wasn't injured when he got hit high and low and bent over backwards. Looked scary.

The difference between the Jermaine Cunninghams of the world and the Ndamukong Suh's of the world is that Cunningham felt him falling the other way and let go of his leg. Suh probably hangs on and gives the leg a twist. That's how you twist a knee and rupture a disc.

I didn't think the Kyle Williams shot was that bad. He went for a tackle; it was just too low. Nowhere near as bad as Antonio Garay last year.

 

[Gumby]

It was in no way intentional and was very bang/bang, the guy was on the ground couldnt see what happenend with the throw and reached out. That penalty likely would not have been called on 25 other qbs but always Brady gets it since the Pollard play.

It was no where near a cheap shot.

SORRY, have to throw the B-S DETECTOR card here.

I distinctly remember someone on here doing the stats and TB gets less calls like this NOT MORE.

And THAT WAS UNDENIABLY exactly what the rule was written to enforce.

You can complain about pink skirts or double stds for QBs; but the rule is the rule.

QBs are one of the categories of players deemed deserving of "special protection" because of the position they put themselves in (planting on one foot to heave the ball); puts them at "extra risk". Just like punt returners are looking up in the air at the ball and not at the mack truck barrelling downfield at them.

 

[upstater1]

Well, I saw the play but don't have benefit of seeing it again on tape. It was a penalty, it was a mistake. I think he made a mistake trying to make a play, not intentionally trying to injure like Pollard would. Seems to be what Brady thinks too. I don't know if he ever said Pollard was a great player and it's part of the game, though i can't recall.

Oh, I agree with this, it's what I wrote. I didn't think it was dirty. I thought it was illegal and dangerous though.

It also had little to do with momentum. He fell, he crawled over to Brady and then tried to bring him down without getting up.

 

[upstater1]

I never understand these comments about QBs and pink skirts.

Let's see, what can't you do to Ray Lewis?

Can you grab his facemask and yank it? Can you chop block Ray Lewis? High-low? Can you give him a good crack back block (think I saw Brady flagged for this once)? Can you even leg whip the guy?

And yet these defenders complain!!!

For heaven's sake, Brady was flagged for brushing a guy twice his size!!!!!!!!

 

[WhiZa]

I never understand these comments about QBs and pink skirts.

Let's see, what can't you do to Ray Lewis?

Can you grab his facemask and yank it? Can you chop block Ray Lewis? High-low? Can you give him a good crack back block (think I saw Brady flagged for this once)? Can you even leg whip the guy?

And yet these defenders complain!!!

For heaven's sake, Brady was flagged for brushing a guy twice his size!!!!!!!!

This is true. Some people don't take into consideration how defenseless QBs are especially when throwing the ball. Any football player who is in a defenseless position is going to be protected by the NFL