Love the Neal signing

[ilduce06410]

so, are you happy with this OL?

I disagree, Light is one of the best run blocking OLT in the League, and tha tincludes the Paces, Jones, Ogdens of the world. Mankins is a hardnose, and so is Neal. Britt could be that drive blocking bastid at ORT tha tthe Pats haven't fielded, but Gorin is a pretty good run blocker too...
Koppen is a mobility Center and not a dominant drive blocker, I grant, but you need that on a Team with a Brady passing game.

one can make those arguments. i believe i have myself from time to time.
paradoxes:
1. it's easy to argue, one-by-one, that each player is competent. and IMO they are. but which OLs are in the top 8 in the league at their positions?
2. how many times did brady get clobbered last year? sacks, hurried, hit after throw?
3. did it seem to you that our RBs had good holes to run thru?
4. Dillon is one of the best pass blocking RBs in the nfl. faulk can get the job done too. so, did our guys have any trouble picking up blitzes?
5. at any point, in any game, do you remember hearing announcers using phrases like, "patriots OL is dominating the (opposition)"? or, "patriots OL is really blowing them off the ball"?
as a whole, that line has done very well in SBs. i gotta remember that.
i'm a toledo rockets fan, and i was proud to see kaczur take care of himself out there at LT. further, he had another rookie next to him, so he really had no mentoring. maybe he WILL get markedly better. certainly rookie OLs almost always improve.
but if the answers to my 5 questions are generally negative, then SOMETHING ahas to be improved somewhere. and i don't think it's light, mankins of koppen.

 

[DaBruinz]

1) I think Kaczur played a lot better than people give him credit for. Also, I think that Kaczur did as well as or better than Matt Light did in Light's rookie year. Kaczur probably has less upside, overall, because he is 2 years older

2) Many of the hits on Brady were late hits, but not called. If there should be a point of emphasis, it should be on protecting the QB.

3) I think that Neal's shoulder was bothering him last year.

4) Gorin flat out stinks. I hope the Pats bring in a G/T so they can let Gorin go. Many of the hits Brady took came from the right side.

5) I wouldn't be surprised to see Light lined up at RT this year.

I still believe the Pats will draft a C/G who could step in if Koppen decides to leave. Hochstein is good for spot starting, but thats about it. He was decent filling in for Koppen, but that's it.

 

[Pats726]

How many years is the contract??? Just curious...

 

[Julius]

I'd like to see us draft Davin Joseph or Chris Spencer and move either Joseph or Mankins to RT. Kaczur could be the swing tackle instead of Gorin.
Mankins-Neal-Koppen-Joseph-Light not bad.... and all fairly young.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Good to hear, we wanna keep this OL together. I have a feeling this will be the best OL we've had in the BB era.

 

[Ring 6]

I still say we need to add a STUD OL to this group.
It is pretty good as constructed, and I like the depth.

However if you add an all-pro caliber guy (and that could be a rookie who grows into it) we could have a dominant OL.

I agree with the comments above that Light is a very good LT with excellent run blocking ability. He fits my criteria asa guy who 'good enough to be part of a dominant OL'
I think Mankins will fit that as well.
Koppen is an above average C with room to improve.

Add a 'stud' and we let Neal and Kaczur fight out for who is the fifth.
We have Gorin and Hochstein as additional depth.

I think adding one top-line OL--and he could play any position, because we can move what we have around--gives us the potential to have the, or one of the best OLs in the NFL. And with the youth involved it can be dominant for a long time.

If you told me you were building a team that was adequate across the board, and I had 2 choices to where I would want to be great----and that can elevate the other players around them---I would choose:
1) QB---We have the best
2) Front 7---We have the best
3) OL. Why not go get the best????????

That OL helps Brady, who helps the receivers. It helps the RB. It helps the D by allowing us to stay on the field and keep the D off.

IMO, a dominant OL makes every player on the team at least just a little bit better.

If we build the best OL in the NFL that can be together for 6-7 years or so, we retain the great front 7 (and continue to get younger at LB) and have Tom Brady, we win almost regardless of who is playing the other positions.

Right now I think our OL is 'good' maybe 'complimetary' but if it were dominant, we would have a scary, scary future ahead of us.

 

[AzPatsFan]

one can make those arguments. i believe i have myself from time to time.
paradoxes:
1. it's easy to argue, one-by-one, that each player is competent. and IMO they are. but which OLs are in the top 8 in the league at their positions?
2. how many times did brady get clobbered last year? sacks, hurried, hit after throw?
3. did it seem to you that our RBs had good holes to run thru?
4. Dillon is one of the best pass blocking RBs in the nfl. faulk can get the job done too. so, did our guys have any trouble picking up blitzes?
5. at any point, in any game, do you remember hearing announcers using phrases like, "patriots OL is dominating the (opposition)"? or, "patriots OL is really blowing them off the ball"?
as a whole, that line has done very well in SBs. i gotta remember that.
i'm a toledo rockets fan, and i was proud to see kaczur take care of himself out there at LT. further, he had another rookie next to him, so he really had no mentoring. maybe he WILL get markedly better. certainly rookie OLs almost always improve.
but if the answers to my 5 questions are generally negative, then SOMETHING ahas to be improved somewhere. and i don't think it's light, mankins of koppen.

So you won't cut them any slack for losing three starters to IR and playing two rookies? Tough man, you are tough...

 

[jczxohn1]

I still say we need to add a STUD OL to this group.
It is pretty good as constructed, and I like the depth.

However if you add an all-pro caliber guy (and that could be a rookie who grows into it) we could have a dominant OL.

I agree with the comments above that Light is a very good LT with excellent run blocking ability. He fits my criteria asa guy who 'good enough to be part of a dominant OL'
I think Mankins will fit that as well.
Koppen is an above average C with room to improve.

Add a 'stud' and we let Neal and Kaczur fight out for who is the fifth.
We have Gorin and Hochstein as additional depth.

I think adding one top-line OL--and he could play any position, because we can move what we have around--gives us the potential to have the, or one of the best OLs in the NFL. And with the youth involved it can be dominant for a long time.

If you told me you were building a team that was adequate across the board, and I had 2 choices to where I would want to be great----and that can elevate the other players around them---I would choose:
1) QB---We have the best
2) Front 7---We have the best
3) OL. Why not go get the best????????

That OL helps Brady, who helps the receivers. It helps the RB. It helps the D by allowing us to stay on the field and keep the D off.

IMO, a dominant OL makes every player on the team at least just a little bit better.

If we build the best OL in the NFL that can be together for 6-7 years or so, we retain the great front 7 (and continue to get younger at LB) and have Tom Brady, we win almost regardless of who is playing the other positions.

Right now I think our OL is 'good' maybe 'complimetary' but if it were dominant, we would have a scary, scary future ahead of us.

:yeahthat:
One more time with feeling, AJ.

 

[patsgreatestdynasty]

me too! :rocker:

 

[shirtsleeve]

I think its fun to sit back and see where everyone stands regarding this off-season. It really shows everyone's mindset as to how they view the game. So many want the best OL in the league. Others see this OL developing into a solid unit and not a point of need. It comes down to "are you offensive minded or defensive minded".

I am of the latter persuasion, though I do see some lack of depth at G. To those who seek the OL from heaven, patience. Next year will be better at G in the draft than this. We are pretty solid at T. Maybe a C for back-up. Wait till next year. This year is heavy at T and thin in the middle.

But this year is absolutely over the top for LB and DB talent. Yes we have the best front seven in the game, but the LB's are getting old. The time is now to draft their replacements. This team is gonna stock up here on draft day.

Rodney is hurt and his effectiveness after an unnamed return is questionable. I am a huge Rodney fan. He is everything I think a football player should be. (ps, on the memory lane note, he plays my old pos. in HS. and my fondest memory is when our rival's QB floated a duck to a crossing WR, who was stupid enough to extend for the ball in front of me....I think his cleats are still on the field, though he is long out of them "he was jacked..up! ). But he too is getting old. Draft a S to play and learn next to him. Move Gino to corner, and draft one of them too, but this time a real one on one lock down cover corner to take out the opponent's best reciever. Love Cromartie there.

To recap, I see the team using the draft to get deep and young at LB and DB. Next year we go for RB and that G. And for you WR fans...Never, Ever, Ever draft a WR in the first round, and try to avoid the second, too.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think its fun to sit back and see where everyone stands regarding this off-season. It really shows everyone's mindset as to how they view the game. So many want the best OL in the league. Others see this OL developing into a solid unit and not a point of need. It comes down to "are you offensive minded or defensive minded".

I am of the latter persuasion, though I do see some lack of depth at G. To those who seek the OL from heaven, patience. Next year will be better at G in the draft than this. We are pretty solid at T. Maybe a C for back-up. Wait till next year. This year is heavy at T and thin in the middle.

But this year is absolutely over the top for LB and DB talent. Yes we have the best front seven in the game, but the LB's are getting old. The time is now to draft their replacements. This team is gonna stock up here on draft day.

Rodney is hurt and his effectiveness after an unnamed return is questionable. I am a huge Rodney fan. He is everything I think a football player should be. (ps, on the memory lane note, he plays my old pos. in HS. and my fondest memory is when our rival's QB floated a duck to a crossing WR, who was stupid enough to extend for the ball in front of me....I think his cleats are still on the field, though he is long out of them "he was jacked..up! ). But he too is getting old. Draft a S to play and learn next to him. Move Gino to corner, and draft one of them too, but this time a real one on one lock down cover corner to take out the opponent's best reciever. Love Cromartie there.

To recap, I see the team using the draft to get deep and young at LB and DB. Next year we go for RB and that G. And for you WR fans...Never, Ever, Ever draft a WR in the first round, and try to avoid the second, too.

I enjoy defense more than offense, but I'm also one who looks at NE's OL situation and thinks drafting one of each is a priority given our current roster. We have 5 OTs signed counting Mankins. We have 7 OGs signed counting Mankins. We have 4 OC signed. That actually totals 12 OL, which isn't enough going into camp. At minimum, draft an OT and sign some UDFA OL, preferably an OG/OC to go with the OT.

I agree with getting younger and faster at LB, I'm less concerned with DB though at least one drafted CB would be nice. I'm already troubled by the demand for my four first day picks, putting together my final board and targeting individuals for each pick will be quite a challenge.

 

[Pats726]

We have 5 OTs signed counting Mankins. We have 7 OGs signed counting Mankins. We have 4 OC signed. That actually totals 12 OL, which isn't enough going into camp.

No..we will need 2-3 more..but we have 13 now...including the ERFAs..which I think will be back...
Koppen, Light, Gorin, Neal, Hochstein, Mankins, Kaczur, Britt, Mruczkowski, Yates, Tucker, Roehl, Steitz......It would be great to find a stud OL...(first day)..but I think they will bring in a vet and that will help considerably.
I do like how they have developed players...watch out for Britt!! He was a solid college player, injured late and is still rehabbing, just now getting back to where he was.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

No..we will need 2-3 more..but we have 13 now...including the ERFAs..which I think will be back...
Koppen, Light, Gorin, Neal, Hochstein, Mankins, Kaczur, Britt, Mruczkowski, Yates, Tucker, Roehl, Steitz......It would be great to find a stud OL...(first day)..but I think they will bring in a vet and that will help considerably.
I do like how they have developed players...watch out for Britt!! He was a solid college player, injured late and is still rehabbing, just now getting back to where he was.

My arithmetic skills bite me again, but before we get too excited about Britt (and I have high hopes) we need to see him play, and push Light, Kaczur, and Gorin for a starting job. A vet would be nice, but young draft talent is just as critical.

 

[Pats726]

My arithmetic skills bite me again, but before we get too excited about Britt (and I have high hopes) we need to see him play, and push Light, Kaczur, and Gorin for a starting job. A vet would be nice, but young draft talent is just as critical.

Agreed..but he is in the mix...and could even stay on the PSqd another year...or in back in case of injury. I think the point is is to have a lot of players competing...Koppen could be gone next year...a lot of talk of him wishing to go home..to PA..Phillie...so a C is also needed. NOT in bad shape at all!!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Which Patsfan here does the tape breakdown?

I remember him pointing out that Neal lapsed in a lot of protection schemes last year - that many of the sacks and rushes were his fault. I'd like to hear his view.

My feeling though was that Neal and others were hindered by a make shift line last year, making due without the two key components of the OL - LT and C.

There were bound to be some lapses.

 

[Pats726]

My feeling though was that Neal and others were hindered by a make shift line last year, making due without the two key components of the OL - LT and C.
There were bound to be some lapses.

Absolutely...when a line is not playing togehter and has different components..it is hard to be a unit as cohesive...funny..you hear about KC's line and a few other strong ones..and injuries?? NONE..all starters in all games...the ideal!! This year was hard with a few going down..and Gorin was injured at the start...I think Ashworth had some problems..as did Kaczur..and Neal had some..I do think this line will be young and strong!! and even better in 06...

 

[PatsFan37]

I may be in the minority here, but I see the Pats OL as a complete unit right now. A mobile, intelligent line that prides itself in never letting a rusher go unblocked and executing brilliant RB and TE screens.

After a full offseason, I'd expect Mankins and Kaczur to come back much improved. Assuming (big assumption) that Koppen recovers well, he'll be a big improvement simply being in the mix. And, of course, Light.

I don't think you can compare last year's line to this year's line, not in any way. There may be problems with depth, but not with the starters. And not to forget that the line includes the best blocking TE in Graham, and Watson will only get better at his blocking.

One thing that will slow down the rush is the threat of screen plays, which this team executes as well as any other team, and one of the reasons I was rooting for the Neal re-signing. Between Graham, Watson, Dillon, and Faulk, the backfield has great hands, and the OL is as mobile and talented as any in executing the screen. This is a key weapon for this team and I wouldn't want to see slow-moving monsters who couldn't get downfield to block.

So I would like to see us draft for depth and maybe for a future center, but I'm not looking for day one picks on the OL.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Metaphors, Tom...

My take on the off-season:

There seems to be some confusion as to whether we lost the original Fraud Monitoring to Seattle, but as the commercial makes clear, at least two other guys feel they can play the position.

I see zero liability as a position of need - not like ours is bad, exactly, but we can get better. ID theft assistance we've gotten better at and younger at in the last couple drafts. You can address Verified by Visa with a second day pick. 3-Digit Code isn't even a Visa-only position, so you could pull in somebody from the Mastercard or Discover ranks if you really wanted to, but again, I think we've got a pretty decent guy there (though a little depth wouldn't hurt.)

Ever since we lost Damien Woody to the Food Drive in the United Way Supplemental Draft of 99, we've stressed group cohesion over superstar status on the line, but at receiver the Pats finally went out and tried to get that big, strong outside guy in Diet Pepsi Machine. He never got a chance to take the field, but with Givens going to Tennessee I see him playing slot until they trust him with the X or Z positions.

On defense...Not In Our House is BACK.

We now return to posts worth reading.

PFnV

 

[mgteich]

Unless Britt is a legitimate Day One quality player, I would like to see us pick up an OT to replace Gorin next year and be part of our future. With regard to Day 2, we could pick up a guard/center to compete with Tucker, Mruc, and Yates for spot that might not even be there.

WE KEEP ANYWHERE FROM EIGHT TO TEN
Light, Mankins,Koppen,Neal,Kaycur
Hochstein, Gorin
Britt/Roehl, Tucker/Mruc/Yates

I agree that we have a "complete" unit now. Given health, we have a much better unit this year than 2005, and better prospects for the future than we had in 2005.

Where we disagree is with regard to how much a stud RT would improve this line to be one of the best in football over the next four years) and for the rest of the decade).

This is the way it should be with a position going into the draft, no critical need, but room for upgrade if a player is there.

 

[Pats726]

Unless Britt is a legitimate Day One quality player, I would like to see us pick up an OT to replace Gorin next year and be part of our future. With regard to Day 2, we could pick up a guard/center to compete with Tucker, Mruc, and Yates for spot that might not even be there.

WE KEEP ANYWHERE FROM EIGHT TO TEN
Light, Mankins,Koppen,Neal,Kaycur
Hochstein, Gorin
Britt/Roehl, Tucker/Mruc/Yates

I agree that we have a "complete" unit now. Given health, we have a much better unit this year than 2005, and better prospects for the future than we had in 2005.

Where we disagree is with regard to how much a stud RT would improve this line to be one of the best in football over the next four years) and for the rest of the decade).

This is the way it should be with a position going into the draft, no critical need, but room for upgrade if a player is there.

Agreed...I wonder if they might not bring in a vet instead of drafting one?? OR draft one and bring in a vet interior lineman?? I still think a backup C may be needed...in case..