Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patriot_in_NY, Apr 17, 2009.
It's official, the love is in their eyes. Hands up. Who didn't see this coming.
Oh my God, we're going Commie!!!!!!!!
Comrades in arms...
Out of curiosity, what did you want him to do???
Wouldn't it be in our country's best interest if we got along with him??
The guy is a two bit fukcing dictator that oppresses his people. Oh wait, you guys don't mind that. Shake his hand, move along. Little to much warmth for a guy that have been referring to our last administration as the Devil. We should not be that warm and cozy with him.
Hey, look who's contributing nothing......... again. Welcome
We have as a nation made a habit of shaking hands with devils for years, see Bin Laden, the Saudi King, Sadam Hussein.. wouldn't it be in our best interest to get along and defy all the rhetoric that he has been spewing all these years??.. a handshake does not mean all that much now does it??.
Birds Of A Feather
How is he a dictator exactly and who has he "oppressed?"
Yeah, please provide a few examples of the man "oppressing" his own people... A people who overlooked a CIA sponsored coup attempt, and voted him back in.
Anyhow, you mentioned something about spittle on chin, and then you turn around and offer this pathetic thread, complete with red-rage F bombs? Classic....
Here's a few opinions on the subject. As for examples, I suppose you'd have to find his political oppostion and ask them. Or the independant media down there
From Democracy to Dictatorship — The American, A Magazine of Ideas
Venezuela moving closer to a Hugo Chavez dictatorship - The China Post
Is Hugo Chavez a dictator? - by Roberto Alvarez-Galloso - Helium
:singing: It's official, all of the socialist apologists have arrived in this thread.
It's not all that difficult to grasp how you can go from Democratic systems to more Dictatorial ones. Chavez's journey is a pretty much a perfect one. Looking at all the sheep in here coming to his defense. It's pretty easy to see how the same thing could happen here.
Bottom line. From Obama, right now a hardshake and perhaps a nod, but a warm embrace is a little much. Perhaps he should just dog hump him........ or bow to him instead.
You mean the fact that most of the media in Venzuela is opposition? Or are you just talking about RCTV not getting it's license renewed because they organized a coup?
Maybe you should try and read some facts about Venezuela and Chavez instead of right wing drivel.
Thanks for revealing that you don't even really know why you think he's a dictator, you're just parroting what you've been told.
Nothing wrong with making friends with, trying to develop a good personal relationship with someone, even if that someone is an outspoken critic of one's nation: "love the sinner, hate the sin", "keep your friends close and your enemies closer", etc.
I think Obama's main goal as US President is to build/re-build relations with all the different peoples of the world, "friend" or "foe". I see nothing wrong with that. Good friendly personal relations are never a bad thing.
Now, what Obama must do is: have the self-discipline to separate his personal feelings for ALL those friends and foes so as to pursue the best policies for both America and the world to move toward peaceful reconciliation, mutual prosperity and shared values.
too late, the chips and beer are gone......... But welcome. We knew you'd come.
I see you've been reading up on your wikipedia. Well done. What could go wrong with using a "user-manipulated" site for your historical background. :singing:
Are you saying he is not a moving that country towards dictatorship? Are you saying that he has not enacted legislation to consolidate his and expand his power? Are you implying that his lifting of term limits to make himself El presidente for life is schstick? And by RCTV, would you be meaning the almost 60 year old free media outlet that he forced off the air , based on a NEVER PROVEN claim by Chavez that they "supported" (read NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED BUT WAS SYMPATHETIC with), the coup. No trail, no hearings, just closed them. Never mind that its a more that OVER 80% of Venezuelans reject. Oh well, no sweat, there's always the state run VTV to watch.
Hey, maybe the liberal times will agree with that it was good idea...... Errrr, Maybe not so much. Well, you'll just have to prop up your arguments with your buddies in here coming to your defense.
I suppose you'd all cheer if Obama closed down FOX for encouraging those "tea bag: insurections too, cuz it's about the same thing. FIGURES................
It's carrot and stick............... Lets not forget that ole Hugo hasn't said many nce thing about the Messiah yet either. He just gave hugo a great big photo op for his people. Wanna go see how he is spinning on his "official site".... Go ahead, take a look and find out who sought out who?
Diplomacy doesn't happen in public. One week after bowing to the King of S.A., it's probably not the best message.
Certainly for some it's not the best message, but for those I'm not sure what would ever be good enough from Obama. Maybe only his resignation would please.
What's clear to me so far is that Obama is trying to be his own man, doing what comes naturally to him. He's a natural schmoozer, loves to do the touchy-feely thing ... and that's not necessarily bad, imo. He's a gregarious sort of guy who likes being around people, a natural politico, etc.
But, as I mentioned in my initial post on this thread, Obama must exercise the self-discipline to separate his personal good will feelings toward other heads of state from holding fast to the policy that is best for America and the world, too. I think he may be able to do that better than the old Hot/Cold War time mentality -- walking with the stick in hand more often than with the carrot -- that has kept US presidents rather stiff and formal and somewhat aloof from other national leaders until now.
Hmmm "using wikipedia" huh? That was clever. unlike you I actually attempt to familiarize myself with a topic instead of mouthing some obnoxious, half assed opinion on it. Check my post history, I've had some pretty lengthy conversations with numerous posters about Chavez, RCTV, the CIA-backed coup, and the lies that the corporate media spew about Chavez and that you eat up on a daily basis numerous times in the past. You made a mistake in bringing up my number one issue, and only further embarrassed yourself with that wikipedia quip, not that it made any sense anyway.
Just in case you want to educate yourself about what has actually transpired, and continues to transpire in Venezuela I'll even baby you through some actually substantive sources of information. I'm sure you won't click on these, because that would require mental work, but I'll leave them here in case anyone wants to familiarize themselves with the topic enough to have an actual discussion on the topic beyond "Chavez is a commie dictator you America-hating fag!":
YouTube - The War on Democracy 1
ZNet - Chvez' Political Strategy
ZNet - Chavez & Democracy
ZNet - Venezuela's Referendum
That's just a few. If you go to Zmag.org you can search through dozens of articles and papers written by Intellectuals and journalists from around the world talking about the situation in Venezuela. Take note of the massive gulf between the actual supported evidence and cited research of these articles and the mindless, repetitive rants in your blog entries. Sorry bud, the facts aren't on your side and most around the world familiar with them agree.
Nothing more ironic than calling a leader who implements public referendums on almost every one of his policies to allow for the kind of direct democracy that puts America to shame a "dictator." But sad irony is the bitter, ignorant island you like to inhabit.
Please show me a source that shows he "lifted" the term limits and made himself president for life. I must have missed that one, I was under the impression that he issued a public referendum to allow the people of Venezuela to repeal term limits so that he can seek reelection again. But again, that's probably because I've actually bothered to familiarize myself with the issue.
Venezuela's Chavez declares victory in term-limits referendum - CNN.com
So why is it that you oppose democracy? The people of Venezuela voted to repeal the term limits, why is it that you should be able to decide this issue for them?
More blatant falsehood here, this time you managed three in one sentence. RCTV wasn't "forced off the air," it still operates in Venezuela on cable and satellite. Why would a dictator allow them to continue to operate on cable and satellite exactly? Also, they weren't "forced" anywhere, their license for the public spectrum came up and the government did not renew their license for their involvement in the coup.
And the National Telecommunications Commission of Venezuela chose not to renew which is their prerogative as "Article 156 of the Venezuelan constitution as well as the Organic Law of Telecommunications grants the government the power to regulate access" (ZNet - RSF and RCTV). I guess if you call publicly calling for the coup on their airwaves, standing side by side and being thanked by the leaders of the coup following it and organizing the people that caused it "sympathetic" to the undemocratic overthrow, then I'd agree with you.
Some more info on the RCTV farse:
Coup Co-Conspirators as Free-Speech Martyrs
Wrong again. Supreme Court Allows RCTV Case to Proceed, but Station Must Go off Air | venezuelanalysis.com
Or they could watch the other two main news channels in Venezuela, both of them opposition-orientated, Televen and Venevision, or the other channels, 80% of which are privately owned and most of which are anti-Chavez:
Venezuela's RCTV and its Acts of Sedition | venezuelanalysis.com
BTW, would that be the same people who voted to allow Chavez to run again or is this public sentiment important to you now? I'd like to know when democracy counts to you and when it does not. Doesn't really matter anyway, since that "poll" was conducted by these folks:
Opposition-linked poll: Chavez to lose referendum | International | Reuters
RCTV mostly broadcast soaps until they started publicly advocating the overthrow of the democratically elected President. The fact that people in Venezuela didn't want their soaps to switch from public t.v. to cable is about as internationally news worthy as the uproar here over whether Comcast will carry the NFL Network or not.
RCTV lost it's license to operate on the public frequency spectrum. It is STILL allowed to broadcast in Venezuela on Satellite and Cable.
The "liberal" NYT has acted the same way as all of the other corporate news outlets have in regards to Venezuela, in lock step, that's why you won't find me defending the NYT or any other corporate media outlet. There's more lies in that Op-ed piece than I have time to refute, so I'll just refer you back to the other sources that show what utter BS that article is. I'll give you one quick example though:
RCTV was never closed at all, let alone by the government. Here's their website: http://www.rctv.net/
Funny how you called PC and I "sheep" though, and then proceeded to demonstrate that all of the corporate MSM in the United States is anti-Chavez. Like I said, enjoy irony island.
If Fox ever did what RCTV did their producers would be in jail. Among the coup they organized, RCTV also broadcast pornography and was cited for violations 652 times between 1988 and 2007, ten years of which occurred before Chavez was even in office. As it stands, Fox is exactly what RCTV is now, a cable station.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer......
come on kids your not that dumb are ya?
Clarification, please: are you agreeing with the "friends/enemies" way, or not??
Separate names with a comma.