Welcome to PatsFans.com

Lots Of Roster Holes

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Jan 10, 2010.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

    My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

    Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
    Wilfork
    Bodden
    Burgess
    Green
    Watson
    Faulk
    Mankins (RFA)
    Gostkowsksi (RFA)
    Woods (RFA)
  2. DocE

    DocE Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Your presumption is that you just draft a rookie and he's a starter. I would prefer to draft two players, expecting the best to start this year and the the other to be groomed for next year. I guess we're not used to drafting with such a wide open hole on the roster.

    If we bring back everyone, why would we need 2 OG's? Even if brining back everyone excludes Neal due to retirement, wouldn't the need at OG sit at one? The Pats would have Mankins, Ohrnberger, Connolly, and Wendell as guard options going in to '10. Most teams carry 7-8 lineman on the gameday roster, so at least one backup needs to have position versatility (ex T/G or G/C). I find it unlikely (though not impossible) that the Patriots would see a need for 2 more guards if every current OL not named Neal returned. I don't doubt that there could be 2 additions at OG, just that their wouldn't be a glaring need in this scenario.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2010
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Lets consider Mankins:
    -- A CBA agreement appears unlikely, so he's an RFA.
    -- As an RFA he's low cost, but after 2010 he's a UFA.
    -- As a UFA, two time Pro Bowl Guard, he's going to be expensive.
    -- According to the Franchise/Transition Tag projection thread the top Guards pulled down $7M+ for one year.

    So does BB keep Mankins one more season and lose him to Free Agency in 2011? Or does he consider reasonable trade offers, even shop him a little, and use the chance for a 1st or 2nd round pick in this deep draft class?
    -- Is there an option to Mankins? Yes, Light is under contract and could slide inside to LG with Vollmer on the edge. Or BB could pick up another older vet in FA, and of course there's always the draft.
    -- Why might teams bid for Mankins instead of drafting a Guard? Guard and Center are very shallow in this draft, Tackle has pretty good depth, but teams looking for a top Guard may be willing to pay for a proven vet like Mankins and let NE transition a Tackle the way they did Mankins.
  4. Hebeill

    Hebeill Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    IMHO A pass rusher or two is a decided need.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,647
    Likes Received:
    165
    Ratings:
    +372 / 0 / -1

    I'm not sure we need 2 OG's in this draft. I don't see any reason why we can't tender Mankins as an RFA and tag him next year as a UFA, keeping him for 2 years. Plus, we may be able to keep Neal for one more year as a part time starter at OG. I think getting one stud OG this year and one next year (draft or FA) may be sufficient. Plus, that would give some time to see if Ohrnberger actually develops, or if he's just a career backup at best.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,429
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +204 / 4 / -5

    A team can't "shop" an RFA until he signs the tender.

    All the more reason for the Patriots to try and sign Mankins long-term.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,077
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +213 / 16 / -36

    #50 Jersey

    Unfortunately, the pickings are slim in free agency regarding centers and guards as well.

    The big name of ILBers is Dansby since the Cardinals can't afford to franchise him as a QB.

    OLBs, there are a plethora of quality UFA:
    Kampman, Danny Clark, Angelo Crowell, Scott Fujita, Jason Taylor, Chaun Thompson (who could be an ILB), just to name a few.


    WRs - Have been talked about Ad Nauseum..
  8. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,673
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    #95 Jersey

    We will not win a Super Bowl with Burgess, Banta-Cain, and Woods as our primary edge defenders. We need upgrades on the outside.
  9. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,701
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    I hope the Patriots don't play footsey with Jason Taylor again.

    We will romance him only to have him jilt us again.
  10. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,701
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    DeBruinz indicates that the free agent class is weak at guard. A team
    just might consider giving up a third and a first round pick for Mankins.
    The interested team could trade down to acquire a late first round
    pick.
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    Sure they can, they just can't trade him - it gives him a little control over where he winds up and whether the new home offers him a suitable long term deal.



    P'haps, but at $6M+ annually, he'll be spendy - might better draft another Tackle to Guard conversion project at a fraction of the cost.
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,429
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +204 / 4 / -5

    Remember a little something about BB making a big stink about the fact that Peppers hadn't signed his tender? Could you imagine that not blowing up in his face if he tried it?

    At least two of Light, Koppen, Neal, and Kaczur are likely to be gone within two years anyways, so I think they can afford to spend that much on Mankins.
  13. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,429
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +204 / 4 / -5

    NFL rules specifically prohibit such tactics. In order to make a tender/franchise offer, you must use your original pick or a higher pick; you cannot use a lower pick. (So, for example, if Oakland wanted to sign Mankins or any other RFA, they'd have to cough up their first and their third; they can't use the Patriots' third.)
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    If a team want to give a 1st and a 3rd, then we will use the 1st to draft a guard and our forst or first second to draft another guard.

  15. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    52
    Ratings:
    +113 / 25 / -18

    No Jersey Selected

    I would waive G'Bye to Burgess, Green & Woods.

    There are more than 2 MUSTs for the draft:
    WR - more than 1, plus a couple of FAs
    OC - I'm sick of seeing the small, weak Koppen being destroyed at the POA
    RG - unless Kaczur slides there; OBurger, Bustey & Connelly are junk
    DE - and not just a former DT; I mean a real DE with real pass-rushing skills
    OLB - see WR above
    SILB - Guyton absolutely sux; Junior was our best run-stopper
    CB - to ensure that Wheatley & Wilhite never see the field again
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    You also presume unlimited resources. You list 9 needs for the draft and mention that in addition you want WR's and OLB's from free agency. I know you understand that we cannot count on meeting these needs with 6th and 7th rounders, so we are talking about mneeting nine needs with 5 picks. A team CANNOT have nine musts and four picks.

    It is much better to go into the draft with one or two musts and a wish list. I do exagerrate, but the musts for this draft will be OG and DE.

  17. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,872
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ratings:
    +147 / 1 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I hope they use one of their sixth or seventh rounders on a punter.
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    93
    Ratings:
    +222 / 17 / -2

    I agree. However, Hanson has had competition in camp before. He just beats them out for the roster spot every year.

  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,077
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +213 / 16 / -36

    #50 Jersey

    The beauty of the 1st and 3rd round pick situation is that the Pats can MATCH whatever offer Mankins gets..

    I don't believe its going to be an issue as I believe he and Wilfork will get long term extensions ala Warren.
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,077
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +213 / 16 / -36

    #50 Jersey

    Why do you insist on polluting the board with your garbage? Seriously. How do you know that Orhnberger, Bussey and Connolly are junk? Connolly actually played pretty well, but he is a JAG. A JAG is not junk. The other two are rookies... How could you evaluate them with the limited playing time they had?

    DE - What kind of formation do you want the guy to play in? 4-3 or 3-4? A 4-3 DE is different than a 3-4 DE. 3-4 2 Gap DEs do NOT rush the passer on a regular basis. They get the sacks if they are there. Otherwise, their job is to control 2 gaps so the LBers can make plays..

    Guyton isn't a SILB. Whatever made you think that he was is beyond me. He's more of a WILB behind Mayo.

    WR - the pats don't need to bring in 3 more WR... they don't have the roster slots for them.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>