Losman on His Way Out ?

[arrellbee]

with some stuff latley, one can nerver be too careful. I still think we should trade Brady for Vick though.

I like your style Digger !!

 

[Digger44]

I like your style Digger !!

that will change, i am grumpy

 

[JJDChE]

Scrambling QBs are a double-edged sword. They certainly make some important plays that help the team. But in the process, the offensive line and receivers really don't have a clue as to what they should be doing. Should they be blocking and running routes for the play called or should they be 'improvising' to help the QB do whatever he is doing. And after a while, they can get a 'what the heck' outlook because top effort is often wasted. A scrambling QB like Culpepper also tends to have 'itchy' feet and doesn't stay in the pocket like a Brady does - so he has that much less opportunity to hit receivers on their planned routes. Also the 'itchy feet' are another problem for the motivation of the O-Line because pass blocking is problematic. Maybe a Saban solution could be to design many or all pass plays as rollouts - but I don't think rollouts are as effective as pocket passing.

When is the last time you remember a scrambling QB who won a superbowl ? (I don't regard Elway or Young as scrambling QBs)

p.s. Saban may be falling into a college versus NFL trap. He had pretty good success with athletic QBs (eg Rohan Davey) who simply could not play at the NFL level.

If Elway and Young aren't scramblers then Culpepper isn't either.

 

[arrellbee]

If Elway and Young aren't scramblers then Culpepper isn't either.

Well, I won't disagree altogether. But, to my perspective, it's a matter of tendencies all getting back to whether there are enough times that the QB decides to run to make the offense a little unsettled. Young in his 94 superbowl season ran the ball on 11% of the downs. Elway in 98 ran the ball on 9.4% of the plays. I don't have career stats on them. Culpepper's career stats show that he has run the ball 14.8% of the time. For comparison, Brady is 6.9%, McNabb 12.4%, McNair 13.7% So it's a matter of degree I guess - but Culpepper is definitely at the top of the list.

 

[Hok]

How is Culpepper going to give the Dolphins problems?

Sans Randy Moss before his injury last year, he threw twice as many INTs as picks.

Whether or not Culpepper's success was an extension of Moss's freakish abilities (hauling in jump balls while triple-covered, etc.) is yet to be seen.

 

[arrellbee]

Sans Randy Moss before his injury last year, he threw twice as many INTs as picks.

Whether or not Culpepper's success was an extension of Moss's freakish abilities (hauling in jump balls while triple-covered, etc.) is yet to be seen.

That's a very very interesting observation. It will be interesting to see what his pass completion percentage and TD/INT ratio are for Miami.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ohhhhh gotcha. He can only throw to Moss, is the idea.

Yeah, I too will await the TD/INT ratio. Man that Moss guy is good, to singlehandedly make a guy a 40 TD quarterback (it just happened to happen when Manning was throwing 49.)

I think it's been a while since Culpepper was a "running QB." He's more like a McNabb, mobile if and when he needs to be.

PFnV

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

He's more like a fumbling QB, but I guess a guy can be mult-talented.

 

[cubedoggy]

I think it's been a while since Culpepper was a "running QB." He's more like a McNabb, mobile if and when he needs to be.

Depending on how well his knee responds, he might not even be McNabb anymore!

 

[Brady#12]

I'm so glad we have Tom Brady. Sooooo glad.

god were lucky :rocker:

 

[arrellbee]

Ohhhhh gotcha. He can only throw to Moss, is the idea.

Nooooo. But the question is, just how much of his success with Moss was due to Moss' ability to get the 'jump balls' or make catches when tightly covered. There is a big difference in getting completions of that type versus being able to read patterns and coverage and get the ball to receivers that way. I certainly do NOT claim to know the answer, but Miami will probably give us some interesting answers if Culpepper is healthy.

I think it's been a while since Culpepper was a "running QB." He's more like a McNabb, mobile if and when he needs to be.

Well, his career average is 14.8% runs. In 2004, his last full season, his average was 13.8% runs. I'll certainly grant you that was less running, but it doesn't seem like a real qualitative change. Again, it will be most informative to see what he does in Miami. We'll just have to stay tuned.

 

[ilduce06410]

now ya see him, now ya don't

Well, I won't disagree altogether. But, to my perspective, it's a matter of tendencies all getting back to whether there are enough times that the QB decides to run to make the offense a little unsettled. Young in his 94 superbowl season ran the ball on 11% of the downs. Elway in 98 ran the ball on 9.4% of the plays. I don't have career stats on them. Culpepper's career stats show that he has run the ball 14.8% of the time. For comparison, Brady is 6.9%, McNabb 12.4%, McNair 13.7% So it's a matter of degree I guess - but Culpepper is definitely at the top of the list.

my theory is that scrambling QBs have to stop running early in their careers. they get hurt real fast in the nfl. the primary reason is nfl LBs. yeah they may all have been there in college, but in nfl they're all there on the field at the same time. running/scrambling QBs are very effective in ncaa and in nfl football, but college defenses don't put the wood to QBs the way they do in the nfl. the hits are ridiculous.
remember that play we saw where vick somersaults into the end zone and lands on his back? ouch.
look at mcnair, thought of as one of the nfl's tough-minded QBs. look at michael vick. he won't run much this year. mcnabb has cut back on running.
even vince young will be trying to be a pocket QB by his third year. he will have learned that it's 'not productive' for QBs to put the ball away. meanwhile watch what heppens when Vine runs the ball in 2006-07. watch the behavior of the LBs. it's like waving a flag in their faces.

 

[arrellbee]

my theory is that scrambling QBs have to stop running early in their careers. they get hurt real fast in the nfl. the primary reason is nfl LBs. yeah they may all have been there in college, but in nfl they're all there on the field at the same time. running/scrambling QBs are very effective in ncaa and in nfl football, but college defenses don't put the wood to QBs the way they do in the nfl. the hits are ridiculous.
remember that play we saw where vick somersaults into the end zone and lands on his back? ouch.
look at mcnair, thought of as one of the nfl's tough-minded QBs. look at michael vick. he won't run much this year. mcnabb has cut back on running.
even vince young will be trying to be a pocket QB by his third year. he will have learned that it's 'not productive' for QBs to put the ball away. meanwhile watch what heppens when Vine runs the ball in 2006-07. watch the behavior of the LBs. it's like waving a flag in their faces.

Very pertinent observations. I certainly agree.

McNabb has said that he is trying to run less and be more of a pocket passer. Whether that is more because he's getting clobbered or that he's figured out that he can probably be a better quarterback that way - who knows. But his numbers show that he is going that way. For his first 4 years, he was running 14.5% of the time. In 2003, it was 12.9%. But in 2004, it was down to 8%. In 2005, it was down to 6.5% but with his problems, I don't know how much we read into that.

As you note, it will be interesting to see what Vick does this year. He didn't slow down much last year. His career percentage is 23.2%. I hadn't realized it was quite that high. Last year he was 20.9% which wasn't much of a change.

My original premise was that a scrambling QB would, bottom line, cause problems for an offense. Certainly that is just a personal impression of mine. So if Culpepper continues running as much as he has, my impression would be that Miami will have a hard time beating out the Pats for winning the division. As you so aptly point out, he might be running less - either because he doesn't want to get hurt so much, because he 'get's it' that he would be more effective passing more (I personally kind of doubt that he will 'get it'), or because Saban is succesful in getting to change his stripes (I also kind of doubt that he can get Culpepper to change). So, we'll just have to see !!

Appreciated your thoughts.

p.s. I don't have any problem thinking that Miami has a pretty good shot to take second spot in the division.