Looking back on the 2011 draft...I still think it sucked

[IcyPatriot]

Check the posts last year; after the 2010 draft I was elated. After this year's draft I feel deflated. Can someone cheer me up and tell me it was a great draft? Ok how about a good draft?

Seems like we drafted a couple of JAGs (at least at RB) and future insurance (Solder and Mallet) but not much in the way of impact players for this season.

Supposedly Solder cannot stop a bull rush; I can see defenses put an NT on him and driving him into Bradys' face

Is Ras-I the answer to the tall WRs that the Patriots face or was he overdrafted because of his super high Boy Scout credentials?

Markell seems like a good pick but is it enough to improve the pass rush?

Lee Smith sounds great but there is a logjam at TE.

I am just glad i do not have to drink the water in Dartmouth.

 

[Frick]

I was every bit as upset as anyone over the Draft. But, being the optimist that I am, I am going to wait and see what Bill does with the UDFA's. I believe there were 23 UDFA's that went to the Pro Bowl, so to dismiss the idea that you can find a gem is ridiculous, though most people on this forum know better.

Al Davis is famous for taking out his stopwatch at the combine and drafting the fastest player he sees, which I believe is way too hit or miss. But, when you're dealing with undrafted kids, what does it cost - $10K? From everything I've seen about Keith Darbut, his measurables are as good, if not better, than Von Miller's. If he comes in and stinks, what have you lost?

You've got Brendan Bair, who on Draft Breakdown was rated over Alan Bailey and others, as a 5 technique DE. There are 3 or 4 G/T's that, if you think about it, they only have to be able to be better than Wendell or Ohrenberger, it's not exactly winning the gold medal.

Duenta Williams and Joe Lefeged are both intriguing at the Safety position and Lefeged was a Kick returner.

These guys, to me, will determine whether the Draft stunk or not.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not trying to throw ice water on the situation but Cannon is unlike any G we have ever had. If you think of why we liked Neal it was because of strength and athleticizm...not exactly Cannon's strong suits. In some systems he may be a great G but I have a funny feeling he more likely be the G/T backup tweener here.

With statements like the one in bold, you wonder why people like myself question the idea that you are a "scientist".

Cannon is very stong and if you actually watched him at the combine you'd know that, for a guy who is 6'5 and 358 lbs, he's extremely athletic.

There is a reason that Cannon was considered a late 1st round/early 2nd round pick until he was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma.

 

[patchick]

Isn't it funny how we're "looking back" on the 2011 draft and reconsidering our assessments of it when absolutely nothing has happened since then?

Personally, I "reassess" in the week following the draft, partially by revisiting draftees who I hadn't delved into much beforehand, partially by revisiting my own assumptions that the draft shook. But in June and July without rookie minicamp, what's to "look back" on?

 

[captain stone]

Check the posts last year; after the 2010 draft I was elated. After this year's draft I feel deflated. Can someone cheer me up and tell me it was a great draft? Ok how about a good draft?

Seems like we drafted a couple of JAGs (at least at RB) and future insurance (Solder and Mallet) but not much in the way of impact players for this season.

Supposedly Solder cannot stop a bull rush; I can see defenses put an NT on him and driving him into Bradys' face

Is Ras-I the answer to the tall WRs that the Patriots face or was he overdrafted because of his super high Boy Scout credentials?

Markell seems like a good pick but is it enough to improve the pass rush?

Lee Smith sounds great but there is a logjam at TE.

And don't forget the complete waste of a 7th-rounder on NFLDraftScout's 730th ranked player, the soon to be forgotten Mal Williams. In the meantime, we are still stuck with 2 piles of stinky, fetid crap at DE & OLB, with no hope whatsoever for improvement.

 

[Sciz]

And don't forget the complete waste of a 7th-rounder on NFLDraftScout's 730th ranked player, the soon to be forgotten Mal Williams. In the meantime, we are still stuck with 2 piles of stinky, fetid crap at DE & OLB, with no hope whatsoever for improvement.

How dare we expect the guys already on the roster to improve after a year in the scheme!

 

[captain stone]

And those fans would be ignoring the fact that the Patriots' depth at RB going into the draft was illusory, because they only had one experienced RB under contract (Woodhead) when the draft began.



As a minor point, the Patriots don't go for high-risk in the first round, which is why they've never taken a first-round DE/OLB-type player and passed on a lot of them in the second round, too.

But good RBs can be had at any time during the draft, incl. after the draft; our own Law & Order is the perfect example. Taking a 5th-round talent like Ridley at 73 was simply ******ed.

As for the not-so-minor point about not drafting DE-to-OLBs in the first 2 rounds: that's one of the reasons why our pass rush is garbage. Another reason: whenever Bill does draft one of them, he chooses the wrong one (Justin Rogers instead of Jacob Ford, Chicken Legs Crable instead of Cliff Avril, and Ron Brace (at DL) instead of Connor Barwin), or overdrafts him (Cunningham).

 

[Sciz]

But good RBs can be had at any time during the draft, incl. after the draft; our own Law & Order is the perfect example. Taking a 5th-round talent like Ridley at 73 was simply ******ed.

As for the not-so-minor point about not drafting DE-to-OLBs in the first 2 rounds: that's one of the reasons why our pass rush is garbage. Another reason: whenever Bill does draft one of them, he chooses the wrong one (Justin Rogers instead of Jacob Ford, Chicken Legs Crable instead of Cliff Avril, and Ron Brace (at DL) instead of Connor Barwin), or overdrafts him (Cunningham).

Captain Hindsight at it again...
Let me know when have 1/10 of the information that Belichick does before making a draft pick.

 

[Off The Grid]

This Draft SUCKED.

1 ~ It's not as if we drafted the OT with the highest upside in the entire Draft.

2 ~ It's not as if we got a Top 40 Talent for OG in the 5th ROUND.

3 ~ It's not as if we got the best Blocking TE in the entire DRAFT, or that Blocking...WINS...CHAMPIONSHIPS.

4 ~ And it's not as if we got a better RB at #56 then the Saints did at #28, and, by the way, hoisted a 1ST ROUNDER on TOP of it!!!


Oh...

WAIT a minute...

We DID. :rocker:

 

[Sciz]

1 ~ It's not as if we drafted the OT with the highest upside in the entire Draft.

Base purely on combine numbers, he's the OT with the highest upside over the past decade!

 

[DaBruinz]

And don't forget the complete waste of a 7th-rounder on NFLDraftScout's 730th ranked player, the soon to be forgotten Mal Williams. In the meantime, we are still stuck with 2 piles of stinky, fetid crap at DE & OLB, with no hope whatsoever for improvement.

I guess like this board being stuck with posters like you, Jeffbiologist, dw toys, and Fredfromdarthmouth..

If you are going to mention that Malcolm Williams was "ranked" 730th by NFLDraftScout.com, it would also be intelligent to mention that is out of 2085 players.

BTW, Where was Terrell Davis ranked? How about Troy Brown? How about Benjarvus Green-Ellis? How about Adalius Thomas? Or Chad Jackson?

The Point is that the rankings of a SITE don't mean jack. I'd have thought you'd get that through your head by now.. Clearly, you haven't.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

And I never ever thought I'd see someone call Cannon's strength a weakness, considering he's the heaviest player Belichick has drafted since 2000, and had the most bench reps of any post-2000 Pats draft pick other than Wilfork and Watson. And at least in college, it showed on the field. On 4th and 1, the Pats have a new offensive lineman to run behind once Cannon gets on the field. I'm excited.

Line him up against Ron Brace in practice and you would have two Big Cheeseburgers slamming into each other; I would pay to see that....

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

And don't forget the complete waste of a 7th-rounder on NFLDraftScout's 730th ranked player, the soon to be forgotten Mal Williams. In the meantime, we are still stuck with 2 piles of stinky, fetid crap at DE & OLB, with no hope whatsoever for improvement.

Whoa; that's way extreme. Year after year such rankings have proved ridiculously bad. Mal Williams must have shown BB something and he is (ahem) slightly better at evaluating talent.

As far as stinky DEs and OLBs...no way. The Patriots have excellent DEs for a 3-4; they are stout and can hold up against double teams. As far as OLB they don't have a lot of star power but they are not bums; decent players.

 

[Off The Grid]

Whoa; that's way extreme. Year after year such rankings have proved ridiculously bad. Mal Williams must have shown BB something and he is (ahem) slightly better at evaluating talent.

As far as stinky DEs and OLBs...no way. The Patriots have excellent DEs for a 3-4; they are stout and can hold up against double teams. As far as OLB they don't have a lot of star power but they are not bums; decent players.

Stop guzzling the Kool Aid, Homer.

 

[jeffbiologist]

What makes you say that? Cannon had 33 reps on the bench press and has been described by many as having the agility and quickness of a much smaller man.

Well I will amend my STRENGTH wording. Neal was a wrestler in college and it was strength PER size not overall strength that made him a football player on sundays. If you consider Neal and Cannon you can see they arent exactly similar. I'm all for a 5th round gamble as much as the next guy but I'd rather take an athlete that I hope has drive than take a fat guy who cant play in the NFL til he loses 50#. I can recall lots of huge guys making a name for themselves around draft time only to fade away into obscurity on sundays. We can remember several monster NT who were supposed to be hi draft picks that could never lose the weight. With his size and experience I would be more inclined to groom him for T than expect him to drop the wieght AND learn a new position. Bruinz, Grid et al can keep drinking the Kool aid and make fun of opinions but thats all anyone has here. Cannon does have the agility and quickness of a smaller man, but can that smaller man play football??

 

[DaBruinz]

Well I will amend my STRENGTH wording. Neal was a wrestler in college and it was strength PER size not overall strength that made him a football player on sundays. If you consider Neal and Cannon you can see they arent exactly similar. I'm all for a 5th round gamble as much as the next guy but I'd rather take an athlete that I hope has drive than take a fat guy who cant play in the NFL til he loses 50#. I can recall lots of huge guys making a name for themselves around draft time only to fade away into obscurity on sundays. We can remember several monster NT who were supposed to be hi draft picks that could never lose the weight. With his size and experience I would be more inclined to groom him for T than expect him to drop the wieght AND learn a new position. Bruinz, Grid et al can keep drinking the Kool aid and make fun of opinions but thats all anyone has here. Cannon does have the agility and quickness of a smaller man, but can that smaller man play football??

More unfounded comments from you..

Cannon was considered late 1st/early 2nd talent before the Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma diagnosis. Getting him in the 5th is a STEAL. The only "gamble" is whether or not he'd be able to be able to beat the Cancer. From all reports, he's beaten it and not suffered any ill effects.

Just because Cannon is 360 lbs doesn't make him fat and it sure as hell doesn't mean he can't play in the NFL. There is no stereotype that says guards have to be 310 lbs. If you had actually seen pictures of him, you'd know how wrong your statements are..

Cannon didn't "make a name for himself at draft time". He was considered a high round pick until the Combine and the Non-Hodgkins lymphoma diagnosis.

Cannon was a 3 year starter at TCU. He was named to the ALL-Mountain West Conference team the 3 years he was a starter.

He doesn't need to drop weight to move inside. That's what you don't understand. And he's played guard before. It's not like it's a new position for him.

Cannon is considered a football player who is extremely athletic. By his peers. By his coaches. And it's apparent by the variety of sports he chose to play in high school.

As for "drinking the Kool-Aid, that is your typical answer when you absolutely refuse to do any sort of actual research that might turn up some facts that would show your "opinions" to be baseless. That is why you are ridiculed. You give something a cursory glace and then you make SWAGS. Then you insist on defending those SWAGS regardless of what the facts say.

 

[supafly]

Cannon was considered late 1st/early 2nd talent before the Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma diagnosis. Getting him in the 5th is a STEAL. The only "gamble" is whether or not he'd be able to be able to beat the Cancer. From all reports, he's beaten it and not suffered any ill effects.

And to take the point even further, Cannon was diagnosed with one of the most treatable forms of cancer that a person can have. I believe that his chance of recouping just fine with absolutely no ill effects whatsoever, is close to 90%.

Getting a guard who was projected with a 1st rd/early 2nd rd grade in the 5th round is insane value. When you consider the fact that we received current draft picks of Solder, Mallett, Dowling, and Cannon, all who were projected in the first 50 picks (at the worst), I think this draft provided overall value that is unparalleled.

 

[Don Kipines]

Well I will amend my STRENGTH wording. Neal was a wrestler in college and it was strength PER size not overall strength that made him a football player on sundays. If you consider Neal and Cannon you can see they arent exactly similar. I'm all for a 5th round gamble as much as the next guy but I'd rather take an athlete that I hope has drive than take a fat guy who cant play in the NFL til he loses 50#. I can recall lots of huge guys making a name for themselves around draft time only to fade away into obscurity on sundays. We can remember several monster NT who were supposed to be hi draft picks that could never lose the weight. With his size and experience I would be more inclined to groom him for T than expect him to drop the wieght AND learn a new position. Bruinz, Grid et al can keep drinking the Kool aid and make fun of opinions but thats all anyone has here. Cannon does have the agility and quickness of a smaller man, but can that smaller man play football??

Wow, did you even watch college football in the last few years? Did you watch the combine?

What made Cannon such an interesting draft prospect is that he's huge without being fat and can still move. He doesn't need to lose any weight at all. He could probably be competitive at right tackle, and maybe even left tackle, at his current weight. And at guard? He certainly doesn't need to lose any weight. He fits right into the Leonard Davis/Carl Nicks prototype, the only difference being nobody has ever worried about this kid getting fat before, at least not that I've seen. He just seems to be naturally enormous.

 

[Don Kipines]

And don't forget the complete waste of a 7th-rounder on NFLDraftScout's 730th ranked player, the soon to be forgotten Mal Williams. In the meantime, we are still stuck with 2 piles of stinky, fetid crap at DE & OLB, with no hope whatsoever for improvement.

On Malcolm Williams, I've definitely noticed over the years that BB likes to take late-round fliers on players who maybe didn't have great college careers but were big-time prospects coming out of high school. David Givens and Patrick Pass are two others that come to mind. Pass was considered one of the top 1-2 running backs in the country coming out of high school in Georgia and along with guys like Tim Couch and Plaxico Burress was one of the top recruits in his class overall. Givens wasn't quite as big of a deal, but like Malcolm Williams he was one of the top players in Texas coming out of high school. Cedric Cobbs was another player whose high school pedigree was apparently a factor (BB mentioned it after Cobbs was drafted). Williams was like some of these guys in the sense that their college careers got derailed -- Cassel got stuck behind two Heisman winners, Pass got injured at Georgia, Givens spent a year or two trying to figure out his position (he bounced between receiver and running back his first two years at ND), and so on. Malcolm Williams clearly is a big-time athlete who got lost in the shuffle thanks to eligibility issues and then late in his collegiate career came to a nationally-contending team with good defensive backs in front of him.

Late in the draft, picking talented guys who sat because of injuries or eligibility or because Carson Palmer was ahead of them on the depth chart (or because, in Brady's case, the coach mistakenly made the player split time with another prospect) is probably at least as good a bet as picking guys with four years of so-so on-field performance.

With those four-year guys, you pretty much know what you're getting. But with those lottery-ticket types, you might be getting something better. Not very often, but sometimes anyway. The one quibble with that Williams pick is that it's doubtful anyone else was going to pick him, and so maybe we could have just signed him as an UDFA, but who knows -- maybe there was one more team out there. We did later find out Tennessee was interested in Cassel.

BB has a pretty decent record of turning 7th-rounders into useful players, with Givens, Cassel, Pass, Banta-Cain, Edelman and Deaderick. A few of those guys were real WTF picks, too. I would definitely wait before dumping on that Williams pick.

 

[IllegalContact]

Cannon was also the most mobile OG in the draft (lets not forget that this guy played OT in college....another testament to mobility)

he's not the quickest guy on the planet, but he's not supposed to be.

the only concerns at this point is that he can struggle with stunts and blitzes, which is a bigger problem at OG. he is also not quite as nasty as most people like their OG's to be........

to me, what offsets his weaknesses is a competitive kid who got a new lease on life.....I can tell you right now that when he got the bad news about his cancer, he was devastated.........so what if it did not bode poorly for his prospects for survival, it set him so far back as opposed to where he was hoping to be that it turns him into a 'man on fire' and we wind up with another carl nicks